Who is this Jesus?

[terraricca]

hi EDJ
I HAVE BE LOOKING AT THIS MORE CAREFULLY , it is the son
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,09:27)

hi EDJ I HAVE BE LOOKING AT THIS MORE CAREFULLY , it is the son Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Hi Terraricca,

As Nick pointed out, we are all on a quest for “Truth”.
When we find it, we share what we find, it is the nature of giving; called “love”.

Is not Col. 1:17 still talking about the same “subject” back in verse 12, “GOD The Father”=117 (117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm)?
I believe it is.
Col 1:17  And he(The Father) is before all things, and by him(The Father) all things consist.
Col 1:18  And he(GOD) is the head of the body(Jesus), the church: who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead(Jesus); that in all things he(GOD) might have the preeminence.

The Bible “Must” always be looked at as a whole, compare that verse with this one, you will see it is talking about “The Father”(GOD)!
1Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is “God”.

It seems there are a lot of people here that will “not” consider another's point of view, I'm glad to see your not one of them!
When it is looked at in this manner, it “ALL” lines up.
The way you suggest gives “FUEL” to the Trinitarians assertions.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

hi EDj
first i agree with you and nick that the quest of truth is the purpose.

Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
Col 1:7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
Col 1:8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him

in col;1-9 its talk about God ,right
in col1-10 its still tall about God
in 1col 11 and 12 the same God
in the same God
in col 1-14 its talks about Christ
in verse 15 it still is Christ
so in verse 16 and 17 it is about Christ
and so is verse 18
now verse 19 and 20 talks about the father.

i still stand with i have said before it is the SON in verse 16

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,10:37)

hi EDj first i agree with you and nick that the quest of truth is the purpose. Col 1:6  Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: Col 1:7  As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; Col 1:8  Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit. Col 1:9  For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; Col 1:10  That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; Col 1:11  Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; Col 1:12  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col 1:14  In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; Col 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him in col;1-9 its talk about God ,right in col1-10 its still tall about God in 1col 11 and 12 the same God in the same God in col 1-14 its talks about Christ in verse 15 it still is Christ so in verse 16 and 17 it is about Christ and so is verse 18 now verse 19 and 20 talks about the father. i still stand with i have said before it is the SON in verse 16

Hi Terraricca,

Trinitarians view those verses as you suggest, why are you against their teachings?

Ed J

[banana]

Ed! Read t8 posts in the beginning of this tread. You will see that Col. 1:15 is talking about Jesus.
Irene

[Ed J]

Quote (banana @ Dec. 25 2009,11:25)

Ed!  Read t8 posts in the beginning of this tread.  You will see that Col. 1:15 is talking about Jesus. Irene

Hi Irene,

We're not talking about verse 15, we're talking about verse 12 “The Subject”, and how verses 16, 17 and 18 are clearly talking about “GOD The Father”!

Obviously verse 15 is talking about Jesus, the object.
Do you ever read anything I write?

Ed J

[terraricca]

hi EDj
i have to say the truth ,it is very trully the Son what his talk about in verse 16 and 17,i have followed Paul explanation from the begining alaway to the end of chap 1,may be you should review it very slowly and you would see the same thing

and i will not twist the scriptures for any bias conclution, only of my conscience in the spirit of Christ.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,12:58)

hi EDj i have to say the truth ,it is very trully the Son what his talk about in verse 16 and 17,i have followed Paul explanation from the begining alaway to the end of chap 1,may be you should review it very slowly and you would see the same thing and i will not twist the scriptures for any bias conclution, only of my conscience in the spirit of Christ.

Hi Terraricca,

If that is what you believe, then why do you dismiss the Trinitarian doctrine?

Ed J

[terraricca]

hi EDj
how you think this is helping the trinity believers,i don't see that ?

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,13:13)

hi EDj how you think this is helping the trinity believers,i don't see that ?

Hi Terraricca,

If you call Jesus “the Creator”, doesn't that make him God?

Ed J

[terraricca]

hi EDj
could you be so nice to me spell it out with the verses in question word by word and then i can follow your reasoning.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,13:25)

hi EDj could you be so nice to me spell it out with the verses in question word by word and then i can follow your reasoning.

Hi Terraricca,

Yes I can, and here it is verse by verse.
The verses we are talking about are Colossians 1:12-20…

Colossians 1:12-20 Giving thanks unto “the Father”, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And “He”(the Father) is “the head” of “the body”(Jesus), the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
that in all things “He”(the father) might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fullness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus') cross, by him(the Father) to reconcile all things unto himself(the Father);
by him(the Father), I say , whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

All this is talking about “the Subject” of “GOD The Father” and “the object” “Jesus”, starting back in verse 12!

In verse 12, “the subject” is the Father, see how I have identified “the Father”.
In verse 13,  Who(the father) hath delivered us, “his dear Son” is the object(Jesus).
In verse 14, we have redemption through Jesus’ blood; “his blood”.
In verse 15, who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(the Father), and Jesus is also the firstborn from the dead.
In verse 16, For by him(the invisible God; the Father, “The Creator”) were all things created.
all things were created by him(the Father), and for him(the Father):
In verse 17, and He(the Father) is before all things, and by Him(the Father) all things consist.
All things consist, because “the Father” IS “The Creator”!

Now verse 18, matches perfectly with 1 Cor.11:3, I will put them next to each other for you to SEE why this is so important…

18 And he(the Father) is the head of “the body”(“the body of Jesus”), the church(is Man and Woman).
1 Cor.11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man;
and the head of Christ(the body) is God(the Father) .

The end of verse 18…
that in all things He(the Father) might have the preeminence.

Now verse 19, For it pleased the Father that in “Jesus” should all the fullness dwell; (Col.2:9)
Verse 20 And, having made peace through the blood of Jesus' cross,
by him(the Father) to reconcile all things unto himself(the invisible God; the Father, “The Creator”);
by him(the father), I say , whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Looking at these verses this way, there is GREAT CONSISTENCY.

Looking at Col.1:16 as you suggest, which the JW’s also do, then you are forced to make things up to make everything else fit.
The JW’s say ‘Jehovah God is the Architect and Jesus is Creations Carpenter’; which is NOT Biblical?
If you make up unbiblical stories, saying Jesus did (falsely) the creating, then what do you do with this verse…

Jer.10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth,
even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Does that mean that Jehovah God will be done away with, because they(JW's and Trinitarians) say Jesus did the creating?
Can you NOT see how faulty this type of logic is?

Can you now see that Col.1:16 and 1:17 is with certainty talking about “GOD The Father”=117!
I hope you seeing these verses in the light of true “Bible Truth”=117 will help to remove the religious confusion being propagated.

God bless
Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

hi EDj
why did you have change Christ Position “all the scriptures says that Christ is the “HEAD” now you say he is the BODY i am under the impression that the body are the SAINTS ,or do i have it all wrong???
18 And he(the Father) is the head of “the body”(“the body of Jesus”), the church(is Man and Woman).

your quote;

this i will look deeper into it ,i will come back to you later,

thank you.

[ashermoshehthreepointonefour]

Hello, based on extensive research, the Trinity concept did not exist until 300 years after Yeshua and the Apostles had passed on. The only existent concept of a triune element pertaining to G-d was the Emanative Attributes of G-d known as the Sefirot, which are divided into 3 columns; Father, Son, Mother… these are divided in such a way to show the personifications that G-d assumes within this world. But according to original doctrine, G-d is absolutely singular containing no plurality whatsoever. Any element of plurality exists only within creation. Therefore the very idea of a trinity automatically is refuted by its own definition.

[terraricca]

hi EDj
i have consulted the scriptures in;Luke20;17-Act 4;11-Col 2;1-12,-1cor;11;7-Eph1;22-Eph 4;11-16-Rev19;12 and Prov 8;22-31 and also Prov 8;1-21 who discribe all what Christ stand for and that he repeat to his aposteles in the pages of the gospels books.

in my view the God almighty his the Father and he made a Son his first creation,this does not matter
if you believe it or not .this is the truth;as a Father God has used his Son to create all things and as a father to his son he has made all things for is Son ,and now through the Son, with all the father support, the Son is saving man and this interaction is what Paul is explaning to the Closians and the Ephisians,if we pay attention to the intire bible this is the message of the spirit of Christ.

those are my believes Ed J

[terraricca]

for WJ

[NickHassan]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2009,07:49)

hi nick when you say the blood of Jesus can wash /do you mean the sacrifice of his body???

Hi t,
No.
Just as the blood of the lamb was applied to the houses and enabled protection from the wrath of God so the blood of the slain lamb is applied for forgiveness and protection from the wrath coming against sinful men.[Jn3]

[terraricca]

hi nick
this is the verses
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 26 2009,06:48)

hi EDj i have consulted the scriptures in;Luke20;17-Act 4;11-Col 2;1-12,-1cor;11;7-Eph1;22-Eph 4;11-16-Rev19;12 and Prov 8;22-31 and also Prov 8;1-21 who discribe all what Christ stand for and that he repeat to his aposteles in the pages of the gospels books. in my view the God almighty his the Father and he made a Son his first creation,this does not matter if you believe it or not .this is the truth;as a Father God has used his Son to create all things and as a father to his son he has made all things for is Son ,and now through the Son, with all the father support, the Son is saving man and this interaction is what Paul is explaning to the Closians and the Ephisians,if we pay attention to the intire bible this is the message of the spirit of Christ. those are my believes Ed J

Hi Terraricca

The understanding I have of God is based on 40 years of carefully studying The Bible,
and can be easily depicted using a very simple “Box Graph”.
This concept may not seem simple to understand at first, but once you understand the simpleisity of it,
you will see a very consistent pattern matching perfectly with what the biblical account.
God can be easily illustrated as “The God Graph” as I call it; first we start by representing GOD as “The Large Box”…

Jesus is made “the head of the corner” or sitting at “God’s right hand”; Psalm 110:1 declares…

Psalm 110:1 The LORD(God The Father) said unto my Lord(Jesus),
Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Viewing “GOD” with Jesus sitting at God’s right hand(or head of the corner) can be visually depickted as this…

I must stop at this point, because of all the flack that will surly ensue.
Jesus is at God’s right hand, but GOD is head of all; can you visually see
what I have been explaining to you using this diagram?
I sincerely hope you can, Terraricca.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

hi EDj

this is a nice try,but there is the version that says that God talks to the Word (Christ)the first born of creation this make more sense,because all creation are done trough him and for him,and the scripture also says he was the alfa and omega of creation this is true of him and of his father as well

it is just like you working as a manager for a compagny it does not matter how big the contract you do,or how small it would be true to say that you were the head of the project or alfa and omega,but on the other hand your boss may also say that, because you were working for him,and he is higher than you in position,you know that and so is everyone you would have work with,is it not?but by no means would it make you the head of the compagny.
and so it is with God,i believe.

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