Who is the only begotten son?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 29 2010,17:07)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2010,08:50) Ok, my opinion on this mess is, there wouldn't be so much confusion if the active voice of the Greek was understood by those who do not believe in the pre-existence of the Son of God. Also, if Jesus was merely proclaimed by God to be the Son of God then He would be one son of many and not the Only Begotten Son. Kathi We will in fact be begotten by the Spirit as Jesus was, for the time being however Jesus is the ONLY one who has been begotten. As previously mentioned scripture specifically declares Jesus as the only begotten Son of God on the day he was anointed by the Holy Spirit at the river Jordon. Jesus being God's Son has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing, and everything to do with him being a human being who fully followed God's Will because God's Spirit was working in him.

So, Jodi,
Are you saying that you are not born again now? But will be born again? That word “born” is gennao, btw.

Gal 4:4-7
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
NASU

This is present tense “you are sons.”

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,17:52)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 29 2010,17:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,17:00) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 29 2010,16:50) Ok, my opinion on this mess is, there wouldn't be so much confusion if the active voice of the Greek was understood by those who do not believe in the pre-existence of the Son of God. Also, if Jesus was merely proclaimed by God to be the Son of God then He would be one son of many and not the Only Begotten Son. Kathi Kathi So you think he was a Son and then he was concieved a Son right? Sounds like reincarnation to me! Blessings WJ Keith, The Son of God existed in the beginning and actively laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the works of his hands. See here where God is speaking to the Son in Hebrews: 10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; 11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT, 12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.” The Son of Man is different than the Son of God.  The foundation of the earth was not laid by the Son of Man.  The Son of God, thousands of years after the foundations of the earth were laid took on the flesh of the Son of Man. Kathi Kathi The President of the United States graduated from Columbia University and Harvard Law School, is a correct statement! But he was not the President then, was he? We agree that his being a Son of the Father was not based on the conception, but the scripture you mention does not call him the Son but Lord. Just as Barack Obama was not the President when he went to college. There is no scriptures declaring Jesus to be the Son of God until after the incarnation! So it is correct to say the Son of God was with the Father in the beginning, though he was not decreed to be the Son of God untill after his natural birth! Blessings WJ

Keith,
He certainly could be the Son of God before man calls Him that or even His Father calls Him that. Never does it say that He BECAME the Son of God.

BTW, Barak Obama was always a son of his father before he even went to college so your illustration is lacking. Sorry.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 29 2010,17:42)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,09:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2010,08:50) Ok, my opinion on this mess is, there wouldn't be so much confusion if the active voice of the Greek was understood by those who do not believe in the pre-existence of the Son of God. Also, if Jesus was merely proclaimed by God to be the Son of God then He would be one son of many and not the Only Begotten Son. Kathi We will in fact be begotten by the Spirit as Jesus was, for the time being however Jesus is the ONLY one who has been begotten. As previously mentioned scripture specifically declares Jesus as the only begotten Son of God on the day he was anointed by the Holy Spirit at the river Jordon. Jesus being God's Son has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing, and everything to do with him being a human being who fully followed God's Will because God's Spirit was working in him. Hi Jodi and Kathi: He is the “Only Begotten Son” in the womb of a woman.  He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and not by the sperm of man. And he was born again from the dead when he died unto sin, and was raised again from the dead.  This is also how we are born again.  We were dead or separated from God because of sin.  When we believed the gospel, and came to God with a repentant heart through the sacrifice of our Lord, God raised us from the dead by His Holy Spirit just as he raised Jesus from the dead.  This is water baptism signifies. As born again believers we are begotten of God in the spirit and not in the womb of a woman.  By one Spirit we we were baptized into one body. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,
It never says that Jesus was born again. It does say that He is the first-born from the dead but not born again from the dead.

If you understood the active voice in the Greek you would understand the pre-existence of the Messiah.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Keith,
You said in regards to this verse:

Heb 1:8-12
8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”
10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”
NASU

Quote

We agree that his being a Son of the Father was not based on the conception, but the scripture you mention does not call him the Son but Lord.

I know that you know God was saying Lord as reference to the acts “of the SON.” Maybe you need to reread the larger context. See Hebrews 1.

Kathi

[Jodi Lee]

To ALL,

I find this information very interesting and would like to share it.

In the book called “The Human Brain Book, an Illustrated Guide to it's Structure, Function, and Disorders, 2009”, on pages 202-203 there is a chart on the Developing Brain. The chart discusses development at 3 weeks in womb, 7 weeks in womb, 11 weeks in womb, at birth, at infant years, teenage years, and finally at age 30 years.

The following is what is said At 30 Years,

The Adult Brain has activity patterns reflecting emotional  maturity. Processing emotional information activates the frontal lobe much more than in teens, leading to more thoughtful perceptions. The prefrontal cortex is the last area of the brain to mature, and is associated with considering the consequences of actions and reasoning. The hippocampus is one of the only parts of the brain that actually produces neurons into adulthood, although the significance of this is not completely understood.

The prefrontal cortex is now fully developed, allowing for improved executive functions. This also means that the brain is less reliant on the amygdala to process emotional information. The other areas of the brain that were still developing in adolescence have now been completed.

==============================================

Around what age was Jesus anointed?

Kinda an interesting coincidence!

[Elizabeth]

O.K. let me give my two cents here.  Jesus was in Heaven with His Father before He became a man on Earth.  That means that He preexisted His Birth on Earth.
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
In John 17:5 He says that He had a glory with His Father before the World was.  He went back to that glory.  He was a Spirit Being then.  He became a man for us.  To save us from eternal death.  All in Adam died, and  all in Christ will all be made alive again.  
Christ also was the firstborn of the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.  Meaning He was first in all.  Firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the dead.  He was indeed the only begotten Son of God.  I agree with Kathi on this one……But I don't think that He always existed like W.J. and the thinker believe.  Firstborn means firstborn that means that He was born and not that He had immortality.  He has immortality now.  That is His reward for coming on earth and die for us IMO.
Peace and Love Irene

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,10:53)

To ALL, I find this information very interesting and would like to share it. In the book called “The Human Brain Book, an Illustrated Guide to it's Structure, Function, and Disorders, 2009”, on pages 202-203 there is a chart on the Developing Brain. The chart discusses development at 3 weeks in womb, 7 weeks in womb, 11 weeks in womb, at birth, at infant years, teenage years, and finally at age 30 years. The following is what is said At 30 Years, The Adult Brain has activity patterns reflecting emotional  maturity. Processing emotional information activates the frontal lobe much more than in teens, leading to more thoughtful perceptions. The prefrontal cortex is the last area of the brain to mature, and is associated with considering the consequences of actions and reasoning. The hippocampus is one of the only parts of the brain that actually produces neurons into adulthood, although the significance of this is not completely understood. The prefrontal cortex is now fully developed, allowing for improved executive functions. This also means that the brain is less reliant on the amygdala to process emotional information. The other areas of the brain that were still developing in adolescence have now been completed. ============================================== Around what age was Jesus anointed? Kinda an interesting coincidence!

Jodi, but what does that have to do with Jesus being born of Mary? What does that have to do with His preexisting His Birth here on Earth? Nothing…..Jesus knew were He came from other wise He could never have said what He did in John 17:5. He could have never gone into the Temple and preach the way He did at age 12, could He?
Irene

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 30 2010,08:53)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2010,16:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 30 2010,08:19) ED The short answer is no! There is no scripture anywhere that calls Jesus the “Son of the Holy Spirit”! The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit took part in his conception! Jesus was not the Son of God by his conception but by declaration! Blessings WJ Hi WJ, You seem to try to squeeze 'trinity doctrine' in at every turn? How exactly did Jesus take place in his own conception? 1Tm:6:20: O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Ed J ED You ask me a question and then you assume that my answer is… 1Tm:6:20: O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Are you willing to listen to answers before you make accusations and judgment? WJ

Hi WJ,

OK.

Ed J

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Elizabeth @ Jan. 30 2010,11:09)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,10:53) To ALL, I find this information very interesting and would like to share it. In the book called “The Human Brain Book, an Illustrated Guide to it's Structure, Function, and Disorders, 2009”, on pages 202-203 there is a chart on the Developing Brain. The chart discusses development at 3 weeks in womb, 7 weeks in womb, 11 weeks in womb, at birth, at infant years, teenage years, and finally at age 30 years. The following is what is said At 30 Years, The Adult Brain has activity patterns reflecting emotional  maturity. Processing emotional information activates the frontal lobe much more than in teens, leading to more thoughtful perceptions. The prefrontal cortex is the last area of the brain to mature, and is associated with considering the consequences of actions and reasoning. The hippocampus is one of the only parts of the brain that actually produces neurons into adulthood, although the significance of this is not completely understood. The prefrontal cortex is now fully developed, allowing for improved executive functions. This also means that the brain is less reliant on the amygdala to process emotional information. The other areas of the brain that were still developing in adolescence have now been completed. ============================================== Around what age was Jesus anointed? Kinda an interesting coincidence! Jodi, but what does that have to do with Jesus being born of Mary?  What does that have to do with His preexisting His Birth here on Earth?  Nothing…..Jesus knew were He came from other wise He could never have said what He did in John 17:5.  He could have never gone into the Temple and preach the way He did at age 12, could He? Irene

I'm just saying that it would be apparent that God waited to beget Jesus with His Spirit until his brain reached a certain functional maturity. That's ALL!!

[Elizabeth]

Jodi! Do you think 12 years is mature, to me that is yet a boy. But Jesus was already more then His 12 years of age. Why is that? I think because He was of God. And He knew where He came from….
Irene

[942767]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,10:20)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,09:42) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,09:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2010,08:50) Ok, my opinion on this mess is, there wouldn't be so much confusion if the active voice of the Greek was understood by those who do not believe in the pre-existence of the Son of God. Also, if Jesus was merely proclaimed by God to be the Son of God then He would be one son of many and not the Only Begotten Son. Kathi We will in fact be begotten by the Spirit as Jesus was, for the time being however Jesus is the ONLY one who has been begotten. As previously mentioned scripture specifically declares Jesus as the only begotten Son of God on the day he was anointed by the Holy Spirit at the river Jordon. Jesus being God's Son has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing, and everything to do with him being a human being who fully followed God's Will because God's Spirit was working in him. Hi Jodi and Kathi: He is the “Only Begotten Son” in the womb of a woman.  He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and not by the sperm of man. And he was born again from the dead when he died unto sin, and was raised again from the dead.  This is also how we are born again.  We were dead or separated from God because of sin.  When we believed the gospel, and came to God with a repentant heart through the sacrifice of our Lord, God raised us from the dead by His Holy Spirit just as he raised Jesus from the dead.  This is water baptism signifies. As born again believers we are begotten of God in the spirit and not in the womb of a woman.  By one Spirit we we were baptized into one body. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, I am a little confused by what you said, “He is the “Only Begotten Son” in the womb of a woman.  He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and not by the sperm of man.” My understanding is that the Holy Spirit as it caused Elizabeth to be pregnant with a human being it also caused Mary to be pregnant with a human being. A MAN did not fertilize Mary's womb with a human sperm, but the Holy Spirit did. How else could Jesus be Mary's biological child and be a human being if her egg was not fertilized? As well, direct scripture shows that Jesus was begotten at the river Jordon. “TODAY I have begotten you”!! That was not the day Mary conceived but the DAY of the anointing. It seems evident to me that the begetting of Jesus, was in fact the same thing as his anointing, or rather the begetting was the begetting of the Holy Spirit.

Hi Jodi:

This is what the scripture states regarding the conception of Jesus:

Quote

Mat 1:20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

You ask:

How could be fully human without a human sperm? The only answer that I can give you is that with God all things are possible. He provided the necessary Chromosomes for conception to occur. This is something that only God could do for humanity. All men born of the sperm of man have sinned, and so, God provided a saviour. The scripture states that he was in the likeness of sinful flesh. He was a man in every way. He had human flesh and he was a living soul with a mind, a will and emotions, but his body was also God's own flesh and blood. No, not God incarnate, because they are two distinct individuals.

When exactly God said to Jesus “Today I have begotten you”, I am not sure, but it was not at the Jordan. This is what God said to him at the Jordan:

Quote

Mat 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He [fn] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. Mat 3:17 And suddenly a voice [came] from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

And we see Jesus at the age of 12, before he was baptized at the Jordan, when his mother and father found him in the temple discussing the scriptures with the scribes, saying something on the order “how is it that you seek me, do you not know that I must be about my Father's business”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

hi

ISA 7:16 “ For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken

it hat to be Jesus choice to go to God to do his will,that is why Christ says he give up his live willingly but to take it back.

[Lightenup]

Quote

Matt 3:16-17 16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” NASU

Quote

Matt 17:1-5 17 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” NASU

Neither of the times that the voice from heaven that said “This is my beloved Son…” indicate within the context that He wasn't His Son beforehand.
Sorry!

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 29 2010,23:06)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,10:20) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,09:42) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,09:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2010,08:50) Ok, my opinion on this mess is, there wouldn't be so much confusion if the active voice of the Greek was understood by those who do not believe in the pre-existence of the Son of God. Also, if Jesus was merely proclaimed by God to be the Son of God then He would be one son of many and not the Only Begotten Son. Kathi We will in fact be begotten by the Spirit as Jesus was, for the time being however Jesus is the ONLY one who has been begotten. As previously mentioned scripture specifically declares Jesus as the only begotten Son of God on the day he was anointed by the Holy Spirit at the river Jordon. Jesus being God's Son has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing, and everything to do with him being a human being who fully followed God's Will because God's Spirit was working in him. Hi Jodi and Kathi: He is the “Only Begotten Son” in the womb of a woman.  He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and not by the sperm of man. And he was born again from the dead when he died unto sin, and was raised again from the dead.  This is also how we are born again.  We were dead or separated from God because of sin.  When we believed the gospel, and came to God with a repentant heart through the sacrifice of our Lord, God raised us from the dead by His Holy Spirit just as he raised Jesus from the dead.  This is water baptism signifies. As born again believers we are begotten of God in the spirit and not in the womb of a woman.  By one Spirit we we were baptized into one body. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, I am a little confused by what you said, “He is the “Only Begotten Son” in the womb of a woman.  He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and not by the sperm of man.” My understanding is that the Holy Spirit as it caused Elizabeth to be pregnant with a human being it also caused Mary to be pregnant with a human being. A MAN did not fertilize Mary's womb with a human sperm, but the Holy Spirit did. How else could Jesus be Mary's biological child and be a human being if her egg was not fertilized? As well, direct scripture shows that Jesus was begotten at the river Jordon. “TODAY I have begotten you”!! That was not the day Mary conceived but the DAY of the anointing. It seems evident to me that the begetting of Jesus, was in fact the same thing as his anointing, or rather the begetting was the begetting of the Holy Spirit. Hi Jodi: This is what the scripture states regarding the conception of Jesus: Quote Mat 1:20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. You ask: How could be fully human without a human sperm?  The only answer that I can give you is that with God all things are possible. He provided the necessary Chromosomes for conception to occur. This is something that only God could do for humanity.  All men born of the sperm of man have sinned, and so, God provided a saviour.  The scripture states that he was in the likeness of sinful flesh.  He was a man in every way.  He had human flesh and he was a living soul with a mind, a will and emotions, but his body was also God's own flesh and blood.  No, not God incarnate, because they are two distinct individuals. When exactly God said to Jesus  “Today I have begotten you”, I am not sure, but it was not at the Jordan.  This is what God said to him at the Jordan: Quote Mat 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He [fn] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. Mat 3:17 And suddenly a voice [came] from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we see Jesus at the age of 12, before he was baptized at the Jordan, when his mother and father found him in the temple discussing the scriptures with the scribes, saying something on the order “how is it that you seek me, do you not know that I must be about my Father's business”. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,
Good post and observation of what was actually said from heaven regarding Jesus at the Jordan.

The Davidic kings were all called “sons” and the words “today I have begotten you…” was something said over the Davidic kings as they were ordained as king. In other words, there were MANY BEGOTTEN sons in that manner. I do not think that ceremonial saying had anything to do with the Son of God as the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son.

Kathi

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
CEREMONIAL SAYING?
God is not religious.

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Elizabeth @ Jan. 30 2010,14:18)

Jodi!  Do you think 12 years is mature,  to me that is yet a boy.  But Jesus was already more then His 12 years of  age.  Why is that?  I think because He was of God.  And He knew where He came from…. Irene

I said in one of my recent posts after quoting scripture that the grace of God's Spirit was upon Jesus from his conception. With that grace Jesus grew in wisdom. Most definitely Jesus was a mature 12 year old in many respects.

I also said,”Both Mary and Elizabeth had children in their womb where the grace of the Holy Spirit was on them. Jesus grew up under this grace, and of course he grew up knowing that he was the man of the Promise. He fully knew that he would one day be the man of whom   Psalms 2:7 spoke of, “I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.””

Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Mark 1:10  And immediately, coming up from  the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove.  11  Then a voice came from heaven,“You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”  

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”

2 Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?

Hebrews 5:4 And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.”

Seems apparent to me that the DAY God said ” You are my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,” and the Day God said, “You are my Son, Today I have begotten you”, were the SAME day!

Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed;

Jesus did not start preaching and healing, showing signs and miracles until after his anointing. This is when God SENT the Christ out into the world. Jesus was not exactly Christ until he was anointed now was he?

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Once again Jesus wasn't SENT out into the world to begin preaching the gospel until he actually became the CHRIST, which occurred at the river Jordon!!

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 30 2010,16:05)

Hi Jodi, CEREMONIAL SAYING? God is not religious.

oops, I think you meant Kathi here Nick!

[942767]

Hi Jodi:

You are usually pretty good in supporting your beliefs with scripture, but in the following you are making an assumptiion, and I have to disagree:

You say:

Quote

Seems apparent to me that the DAY God said ” You are my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,” and the Day God said, “You are my Son, Today I have begotten you”, were the SAME day!

Jesus was a Son of God under the Law of Moses. At the Jordan, he was anointed for the ministry and sent forth into the world as he stated:

Quote

Luk 4:18 “The Spirit of the LORD [is] upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to [the] poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, [fn] To proclaim liberty to [the] captives And recovery of sight to [the] blind, [To] set at liberty those who are oppressed; Luk 4:19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.” [fn] Luk 4:20 Then He closed the book, and gave [it] back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. Luk 4:21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 30 2010,00:05)

Hi Jodi, CEREMONIAL SAYING? God is not religious.

Nick,
God had established things that were to be repeated.

check out this site, it might help:

http://www.grace-bible.org/downloa….Son.pdf

Kathi

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,15:06)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,10:20) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,09:42) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 30 2010,09:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 30 2010,08:50) Ok, my opinion on this mess is, there wouldn't be so much confusion if the active voice of the Greek was understood by those who do not believe in the pre-existence of the Son of God. Also, if Jesus was merely proclaimed by God to be the Son of God then He would be one son of many and not the Only Begotten Son. Kathi We will in fact be begotten by the Spirit as Jesus was, for the time being however Jesus is the ONLY one who has been begotten. As previously mentioned scripture specifically declares Jesus as the only begotten Son of God on the day he was anointed by the Holy Spirit at the river Jordon. Jesus being God's Son has NOTHING to do with him pre-existing, and everything to do with him being a human being who fully followed God's Will because God's Spirit was working in him. Hi Jodi and Kathi: He is the “Only Begotten Son” in the womb of a woman.  He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and not by the sperm of man. And he was born again from the dead when he died unto sin, and was raised again from the dead.  This is also how we are born again.  We were dead or separated from God because of sin.  When we believed the gospel, and came to God with a repentant heart through the sacrifice of our Lord, God raised us from the dead by His Holy Spirit just as he raised Jesus from the dead.  This is water baptism signifies. As born again believers we are begotten of God in the spirit and not in the womb of a woman.  By one Spirit we we were baptized into one body. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, I am a little confused by what you said, “He is the “Only Begotten Son” in the womb of a woman.  He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and not by the sperm of man.” My understanding is that the Holy Spirit as it caused Elizabeth to be pregnant with a human being it also caused Mary to be pregnant with a human being. A MAN did not fertilize Mary's womb with a human sperm, but the Holy Spirit did. How else could Jesus be Mary's biological child and be a human being if her egg was not fertilized? As well, direct scripture shows that Jesus was begotten at the river Jordon. “TODAY I have begotten you”!! That was not the day Mary conceived but the DAY of the anointing. It seems evident to me that the begetting of Jesus, was in fact the same thing as his anointing, or rather the begetting was the begetting of the Holy Spirit. Hi Jodi: This is what the scripture states regarding the conception of Jesus: Quote Mat 1:20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. You ask: How could be fully human without a human sperm?  The only answer that I can give you is that with God all things are possible. He provided the necessary Chromosomes for conception to occur. This is something that only God could do for humanity.  All men born of the sperm of man have sinned, and so, God provided a saviour.  The scripture states that he was in the likeness of sinful flesh.  He was a man in every way.  He had human flesh and he was a living soul with a mind, a will and emotions, but his body was also God's own flesh and blood.  No, not God incarnate, because they are two distinct individuals. When exactly God said to Jesus  “Today I have begotten you”, I am not sure, but it was not at the Jordan.  This is what God said to him at the Jordan: Quote Mat 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He [fn] saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. Mat 3:17 And suddenly a voice [came] from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we see Jesus at the age of 12, before he was baptized at the Jordan, when his mother and father found him in the temple discussing the scriptures with the scribes, saying something on the order “how is it that you seek me, do you not know that I must be about my Father's business”. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty what you just said about the conception of Jesus I must say has me baffled. Your explanation makes Jesus out to be something completely other then a true human being IMO.

You said, “He had human flesh and he was a living soul with a mind, a will and emotions, but his body was also God's own flesh and blood.  No, not God incarnate, because they are two distinct individuals.”

His body was also God's own flesh?

Brother I don't feel that is correct. His flesh needed to be man's flesh and man's flesh alone in order for him to truly be human and be called a Son of Man IMO.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.  21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.  2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.  3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh,God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

My understanding is that the Holy Spirit caused a human being to deny the flesh and completely follow the will of God. It was a work done in the mind of Jesus. Not that Jesus was made into some special God flesh caused him to remain without sin. The mind is part of the body, it exists in the flesh and is made up of the same elements as the rest of the body.

Jesus was referred to as being in the “likeness” of sinful flesh because he had no sin in his flesh even though he was born with the same carnal nature as us, otherwise he just would have b
een sinful flesh like the rest of us.  What causes sin is when we serve our carnal mind, Jesus had that carnal mind, but he did not serve it, therefore he was in the likeness of sinful flesh without being a person of sinful flesh. At least that's how I understand it.

Am I hearing you right Marty, your understanding is that Jesus remained without sin because he had special God flesh and special God blood?

Sorry if I am misunderstanding you,  

Love to you,  Jodi

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