Who is the archangel michael?

Participant

Is the archangel Michael the same person as Jesus?

They are saying the same things…

Michael
Jude 1; 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”

Many argue saying that Michael can’t be the same person as Jesus because Jesus as the Lord, would rebuke the devil Himself; however we see this is not the case. The Lord – Jesus uses the same words as Michael.

The Lord – Jesus
Zechariah 3; 2 And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, O Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! …
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They are at the same place at the same time…

Michael
Jude 1; 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses…
From these texts we can see that they are at the same place, at the same time. Both texts are talking about the same event after Moses death.

The Lord – Jesus
Deuteronomy 34; 5-6 So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord, and He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-peor; but no one knows the place of his burial to this day.
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They have the same Titles – Roles…

Michael
Rev. 12; 7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

The Lord – Jesus
Joshua 5; 13-15 When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing before him with his drawn sword in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the Lord. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?” And the commander of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

Here we see that Michael is leading (he is the commander) his angels (the army of the Lord) in the war against the dragon.
In Joshua 5; 13-15 we see that Joshua didn’t know who the man he saw was, until the Lord introduced himself as the commander of the army of the Lord. It was then that Joshua knew exactly who he was and he worshiped. This shows that this is very specific title that belongs to only one person; otherwise he couldn’t know for sure whom he is worshiping.
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Both are connected with the resurrection…

Michael
Dan. 12; 1-3 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; a and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

The Lord – Jesus
John 5; 25-29 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
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1. The Archangel

Michael
Jude 1; 9 But when the archangel Michael…

The Archangel is mentioned only twice in the bible, once connected to Lords coming and second time next to Michaels name.

The Lord – Jesus
1 Thessalonians 4; 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel…

…with the voice of an Archangel… could mean: or it is Jesus’ voice, or it is the voice of an Archangel who is coming with Jesus. However we see in John 5; 25 that it is Jesus’ voice we will hear; “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”
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2. The Archangel

Both times the “Archangel” is mentioned, it is in singular.
Although there might be more Archangels, there are no mentions of any other in the Bible by using this title. This is showing us uniqueness of this being.
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3. The Archangel
Archangel means the First Angel or Chief Angel.
If Michael is the First Angel or Chief Angel that would mean; or he is above Jesus, or he was above Jesus, or it is the same person. The last seems most logical to me.
Now many will argue that Jesus is (was) not an Angel; however there are many texts in the Bible calling Him – the Lord, an Angel. Here are just a few: Exodus 23; 20-22 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.”
Acts 7; 35 “This Moses, whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’- This man God sent as both ruler and redeemer by the hand of the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
Acts 7; 38 This is the one (Moses) who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai…
On the other hand, in the Bible, next to the name Michael we never find “the angel”. So how does it make sense to claim that Jesus was not an Angel, and that Michael is an Angel, as a proof that they are not the same being? This is what we find next to the name of Michael: “the Archangel”, “the great prince”, “your prince”, “first* of the chief princes”, “his angels”. We know that prince is the son of King. But let ask all this other questions; Who is the Chief-Commander of the Angels? , Who is the Great Prince? , Who is Our Prince? , Who is The First of princes?, Whose the angels are?
We can answer with certainty that it is Jesus. So why is it so hard to accept that they are the same person?

*The Hebrew word echad means one or first. As in Daniel, the Angel; when talking about Michael, is talking in way that signifies his importance and uniqueness, it would be more correct and logical to conclude that He meant “the first of” rather than “one of”. Also, from Jude 1;9 we know Michael is the Archangel which means “the first angel”, confirming this is the correct translation.
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Both have angels…

Michael
Rev. 12; 7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon…

The Lord – Jesus
Matthew 16; 27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
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They are never mentioned together…

Despite having the same titles, saying the same things, being at the same place at the same time, they are never mentioned together in one text, which again points that they are the same person.
God bless
Vjesnik

May 27, 2014 at 4:15 pm#384768

Participant

Vjesnik.

I know the jw's teach that doctrine.

Just ponder on this scripture.

John 1.
WITHOUT HIM WAS *NOT ANYTHING* MADE THAT WAS MADE.
MICHA''EL AND THE OTHER ANGELS WERE MADE BY THE WORD.

That should dismiss that false doctrine.

The Word of God that was made flesh; is named Jesus.
And the Word was from everlasting. Micha'el is not.

wakeup.

May 27, 2014 at 4:36 pm#384773

Participant

Vjesnik.

Yes I know.

Jesus is the king and Micha'el is his general so to speak.
He does the warring on command.
Jesus the king will come with the voice of an arc angel.
The angel will do the shouting.

Micha'el is only one of the four chief angels.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael,
**one of the chief princes**,
came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

wakeup.

May 27, 2014 at 4:41 pm#384774

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ May 28 2014,02:15)

Vjesnik.

I know the jw's teach that doctrine.

Just ponder on this scripture.

John 1.
WITHOUT HIM WAS *NOT ANYTHING* MADE THAT WAS MADE.
MICHA''EL AND THE OTHER ANGELS WERE MADE BY THE WORD.

That should dismiss that false doctrine.

The Word of God that was made flesh; is named Jesus.
And the Word was from everlasting. Micha'el is not.

wakeup.

Hi wakeup

First to tell you I'm not JW.

You quoted John 1;3 to prove your point, but it doesn't do you a favor. I don't know if you really read my post or just replied without reading it.
Your view creates many problems…
Let me explain, the Word of God is called an angel in the old testament many times. The archangel means the first angel or cheaf angel. If archangel Michael is the First Angel, for you to be correct the word of God should be angel number 0.
Second thing is that the archangel is above the angel. As scripture clearly calls Lord an angel many times, that would mean that the Lord (the Word – Jesus) created someone who is above him. Doesn't make any sense.

May 27, 2014 at 4:49 pm#384775

Participant

Vjesnik.

First of all.
What bible are you studying?
Because jesus was never called an angel in scripture.

Daniel also quoted that Micha'el is ONE OF the four chief
angels.

wakeup.

May 27, 2014 at 4:56 pm#384779

kerwin

Participant

vjesnik,

Quote

Is the archangel Michael the same person as Jesus?

Jesus is not an angel as God did not subject the world to come to angels but it is subjected to Jesus.

May 27, 2014 at 5:02 pm#384784

Participant

Hi,
This false doctrine comes from poor, one verse, inferential scriptural analysis.
It shows how scriptural study must be done with care or it makes fools of us.

May 27, 2014 at 5:11 pm#384785

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ May 28 2014,02:49)

Vjesnik.

First of all.
What bible are you studying?
Because jesus was never called an angel in scripture.

Daniel also quoted that Micha'el is ONE OF the four chief
angels.

wakeup.

wakeup

I read the Bible in my language, but no worry you can find it all of the versions. the Lord is called an angel, the angel, the angel of the Lord, many times. I give you tree examples in the first post, but there are many more.

About Daniel, he never said that he is one of four, never.
Can you please show me the text saying “one of four” –
that is pure tradition.

God bless
Vjesnik

May 27, 2014 at 5:25 pm#384788

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2014,03:02)

Hi,
This false doctrine comes from poor, one verse, inferential scriptural analysis.
It shows how scriptural study must be done with care or it makes fools of us.

Nick

There is more than one verse that I quoted brother Nick, and you are saying it is only one. You are saying untruths and just your opinion. Yet there is absolutely no scriptural evidence that you bring.

May 27, 2014 at 5:30 pm#384789

kerwin

Participant

To all,

Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Uriel, Raguel, Remiel and Saraqael are the seven archangels spoken of in the book of 1 Enoch. It is the earliest known mention. They are said to be the seven eyes of God and the Lamb has seven eyes.

Those who are fans of that book or anyone else can look it up.

May 27, 2014 at 5:50 pm#384791

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2014,02:56)

vjesnik,

Quote

Is the archangel Michael the same person as Jesus?

Jesus is not an angel as God did not subject the world to come to angels but it is subjected to Jesus.

kerwin

1 Corinthians 10; 1-4 For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Exodus 23; 20-22 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.

Acts 7; 38 This is the one (Moses) who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the angel who spoke to him at Mount Sinai…

Exodus 34; 27-28 And the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

God bless

May 27, 2014 at 6:55 pm#384797

Participant

Hi VJ,
Yes the Spirit of Christ was in the Prophets[1 peter 1.11] and in the desert as you show.
And the word was spoken through angels [heb 2.2]

And Hebrews 1-2 contrasts Jesus Christ with the angels

May 27, 2014 at 7:00 pm#384798

Participant

Hi VJ,
Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:21
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

So he is the great prince of the Jewish people, one of the chief princes.

Of course Jesus Christ is over all these angels and the jews and gentiles are one in him.

May 27, 2014 at 7:15 pm#384799

Participant

Hi JV,
Heb 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Jesus was for a time less than
and now is greater than
the angels.

But he was never ONE OF the angels

May 27, 2014 at 7:38 pm#384805

kerwin

Participant

Quote (vjesnik @ May 27 2014,23:50)

Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2014,02:56)

vjesnik,

Quote

Is the archangel Michael the same person as Jesus?

Jesus is not an angel as God did not subject the world to come to angels but it is subjected to Jesus.

kerwin

God bless

vjesnik,

Please credit the version you are quoting from. If you have a favorite then I would address you in it provide it was not one of the thought for thought versions I find heavily biased.

Hebrews 2:5
New English Translation (NET)

5 For he did not put the world to come, about which we are speaking, under the control of angels.

Scripture cannot be broken so the passages you quote and Hebrews 2:5 cannot contradict each other. They must agree on all points they have in common.

Nick already pointed out a good interpretation that resolves your Scripture in such a way as they do not imply that Jesus is an angel. In this way his interpretation is in harmony with Hebrews 2:5.

May 27, 2014 at 8:44 pm#384811

Participant

Hi JV,
You quote
Exodus 23; 20-22 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. “

Yes the angel of the Lord went before them, not Jesus Christ.

May 28, 2014 at 2:49 am#384909

terraricca

Participant

Quote (vjesnik @ May 27 2014,23:50)

Quote (kerwin @ May 28 2014,02:56)

vjesnik,

Quote

Is the archangel Michael the same person as Jesus?

Jesus is not an angel as God did not subject the world to come to angels but it is subjected to Jesus.

kerwin

God bless

IF you understand those scriptures and their real application at the time of Christ and later to all Christians believers ,

you could understand that it was not a baptism as individuals but a baptism in a society or group ,do you understand what happen to those that stayed in Egypt and did not follow Moses ,they would be equal to those that die in the desert ;because they have not taken part in God's glory in the promise he made to the patriarch Abraham

May 28, 2014 at 5:35 am#384973

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2014,04:55)

Hi VJ,
Yes the Spirit of Christ was in the Prophets[1 peter 1.11] and in the desert as you show.
And the word was spoken through angels [heb 2.2]

And Hebrews 1-2 contrasts Jesus Christ with the angels

Hi Nick
I showed, actually the scripture shows it was the Christ who was going with them “…and the Rock was Christ.” It is very clear.

Here you mix the Spirit of Christ (the Holy Spirit) with the Christ. 1 Peter 1.10-11 is talking about the prophecy and it is the Holy Spirit who brings prophecy. 2 Peter 1; 20-21 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. It is very clear.

Vjesnik

May 28, 2014 at 5:39 am#384974

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2014,05:00)

Daniel 10:21
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

So he is the great prince of the Jewish people, one of the chief princes.

Of course Jesus Christ is over all these angels and the jews and gentiles are one in him.

Nick
If you want me to further comment on this texts and show you more points for my case, it is important for me to know who do you believe is talking to Daniel in these texts?

He is the great prince of Daniels people, which are all believers, not just Jews, as we are adopted into Gods family and at that time it was the same. The people who believed where adopted into God’s family.
Isaiah 56:3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely separate me from his people”…

So if they are two different persons that means we have two princes.

As for “one of the chief princes” I already explained it in my first post. Echad means one or first, and although it is translated as the one, more correct translation would be the First because the texts is signifying how special He is. Being the First one, of course he would be in charge of all angels. Jesus is also called the First 

God bless
Vjesnik

May 28, 2014 at 5:45 am#384977