Who is michael the archagel?

Participant

Who is Michael the archangel?

In order to scripturally prove that Michael is Christ Jesus one would of necessity have to be able to link the Prophecy in Daniel 12: 1,2 to the sign of the presence of Christ invisibly present in Kingdom Power. They both must speak of the same kind of World trouble due to happen when Michael 'stands up.' Or when the Christ invisibly takes Kingdom Power.We will note that both Daniel and Matthew speak about this same unparralelled time of World trouble. at [Matthew. Chapter 24: 21,22.] [Daniel 12:1] As well it must line up with what the rest of the Christian Greek scriptures have to say about the responibility of the Christ in performing the resurrection of the dead, for when Michael 'stands up' the resurrection also begins. [Daniel 12:1] [John 5:25-28] [1 Thessalonians 4: 16,17] Does the Bible do that? I will go on to show that it most certainly does!!

We will notice in the prophesy of Daniel, that whenever the term stand up is used it is talking about Kings taking ruling power. Proof of this is found at: Daniel 7:17; 8: 23,24; 11: 3,7, 20, 21 [NWT]

Bearing that in mind, we now turn to Daniel 12: 1-3 where we read: “And during that time Mi'cha-el will stand up the great Prince who is standing, {or ruling} in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a Nation until that time. and during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the Book.

Now, there are clues as to who this great Prince is, as found at Isaiah 9: 6,7 where we read: “For there has been a child born to us, there has been a Son given to us; and the Princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor Mighty God Eternal Father Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the Princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the Throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness from now on and to time indefinite” …

For those who believe that Jesus was Almighty God, you will notice that it refers to Jesus only as Mighty God; not Almighty God, and there is a great difference between the two. So, thus far we see that Jesus is the Great Prince who stands in behalf of Daniels people. It should aslo be noted, that a Prince is the Son of a King, but not the King himself, for Jehovah himself has always, and always will be King.

There are other clues as well to consider. We noticed in the Prophecy of Daniel 12: 1 that it is mentioned that when Mi'cha-el stands up, or takes ruling power a “time of distress” is mentioned. This is a time of trouble and distress that has no equal, and that is in harmony with Jesus own words when he gave the composite sign of his presence in Kingdom Power. Matthew 24: 21,22 reads thusly: …”for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the Worlds beginning, until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” Daniel 12:1 reads, speaking about this same period of trouble: “And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a Nation until that time.” ” So, Daniel; 12:1 and Matthew 24:21,22 are in complete harmony, one with the other. Both foretold a time of trouble unequaled in human History. That should tell us that Mi'cha-el has to be Christ Jesus, for who else could it be? Has Jehovah at the last minute changed his mind and given ruling power to someone other than the Christ? I seriously doubt that! There is one last clue to be taken into consideration.

Verse 2 of Daniel 12 mentions something that also identifies Mi'cha-el as Christ Jesus, because it mentions that the resurrection is taking place when Mi'cha-el stands up. It says: “And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust, who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence.” Now since the resurrection is taking place when Mi'cha-el stands up, it does well to consider who was entrusted to do the resurrecting. We learn who that was by reading John 5: 25-28 where we learn the following: “Most truly I say to you, The hour is coming and it is now when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live, For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself, and he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” So, when the dead heard Mi'cha-el's voice in Daniel 12:2 they actually heard the voice of the Son of God, as was pointed out in John 5:25-28.

So, then, quite clearly they have heard the voice of Mi'cha-el, and the resurrection begins, and since it is Jesus who is entrusted to do all of the resurrecting, then Mi'cha-el's voice had to be that of the voice of the Son of God, Jesus christ, and Jesus voice had to be that of Mi'cha-el the archangel. That means then, that they are one and the same person. Jesus is Mi'cha-el the archangel. This thought is not without scriptural proof, for we read at 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 … “because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call with an archangels voice: …

Now, we learned from the prophecy in Daniel 12:2 that Mi'cha-el is involved in the resurrecting of the dead, and Paul showed us that it is Christ Jesus with the voice of an archangel is also the one involved in this resurrection of the the dead, … … ' And with God's Trumpet, And those who are dead in union with the Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.” Unmistakably then, Christ Jesus is Mi'cha-el the archangel!

There is one more scripture that stamps Mi'cha-el as Christ Jesus, and that scripture is found at Revelation 12: 7-10 where it states this: “And War broke out in heaven. Mi'cha-el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and it's angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called devil and satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth, he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation of our God, and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the the accuser of our Brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God” … The 'authority of the Christ' is linked with Michael throwing satan and his cohorts out of the heavens down with him. That also stamps Michael as Christ Jesus!

Now taking this scripture in context, we see that the Christ has been enthroned as King of God's Kingdom, and endowed with full authority to oust Satan and his demons from the heavenly realm, which is his first act as ruling King. So it had to be Christ Jesus in his heavenly spirit form as Mi'cha-el the archangel who was fighting this war against Satan and his demons; for who else had earned the right to clean out the heavenly realm? There is none other, absolutely no one could fill the office meant for only Christ Jesus! [Compare [Matthew 8:28-33] Beyond any doubt, Christ Jesus has to be Mi'cha-el the archange!

So, I have linked the Prophecy in Daniel with Matthew- Jo
hn and Paul and I have scripturally proven that Michael and Christ Jesus are one and the same person!

Now, I know, that few, if not any, will agree with my interpretation of this subject, but this information is what I have been able to glean from my thirty-five years of Bible study. This, is what I believe to be the truth of the matter. My belief is what I share with all of you now.

If anyone believes, that he/she can supply a better interpretation, please let them feel free to do so. If I'm wrong in my reasoning, I would appreciate very much seeing a better interpretation. I could only benefit from that, if other reasonings prove out to be true, and, without any doubt, refute scripturally, what I have stated here! Texas!

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April 14, 2009 at 7:11 pm#127616

Participant

There are already 5 threads on Jesus being Michael the archangel. This is the first one, as far as I can tell where someone started a thread on this who actually believed Jesus was Michael.

April 14, 2009 at 7:42 pm#127624

Participant

Hi Texas,
No you have proved your faith in men and implication and logic ahead of what is written.
Such is no form of truth or proof.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

April 14, 2009 at 11:00 pm#127660

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,07:42)

Hi Texas,
No you have proved your faith in men and implication and logic ahead of what is written.
Such is no form of truth or proof.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Hello nick!
Okay! Who was this Michael the chief Prince. Can you show conclusively that it wasn't Jesus in angelic form? I doubt it!
My faith is not in men at all, but yours is! There isn't a bloody man on this earth, I'd trust as far as I could throw a Grand Piano!

To me the Bible is sufficient truth and proved everything I said! You're just too blind to see it! That's your problem though. I have a feeling that your eyes are going tp be opened wide just prior to Armageddon! Too late to do you any good though! Tough Luck Pal! Tough luck! Texas

April 14, 2009 at 11:13 pm#127662

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=17;t=941;st=470

Participant

that is a link to the largest thread of this kind.

April 14, 2009 at 11:15 pm#127663

Participant

Quote

Okay! Who was this Michael the chief Prince. Can you show conclusively that it wasn't Jesus in angelic form?

While I agree completely, that Michael is another name for Jesus, you are asking Nick to prove that santa doesn't exist. It's up to you to prove he does.

Nick doesn't believe Jesus could ever be called an angel. That is his stumbling block. T8 the owner of this forum believes Jesus is called an angel. This is where I would start with Nick.

April 14, 2009 at 11:26 pm#127665

Participant

Quote (Texas @ April 15 2009,11:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,07:42)

Hi Texas,
No you have proved your faith in men and implication and logic ahead of what is written.
Such is no form of truth or proof.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Hi texas,
It says he was ONE OF the chief princes.

If you are to state he is Jesus you diminish the Son of God.

To make such statements you go outside of revelation to stand on your own logic alone as scripture does not say so.

April 15, 2009 at 12:35 am#127668

Participant

Hi david,
The bible never says Jesus is an angel, and archangel or one of the princes called Michael.
So that stuff has all come from the fertile imaginations of men.
They should not alter scripture with nonsense.

April 15, 2009 at 1:18 am#127671

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Texas @ April 15 2009,11:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,07:42)

Hi Texas,
No you have proved your faith in men and implication and logic ahead of what is written.
Such is no form of truth or proof.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Hi Texas

The final reference to the name Michael is in Revelation chapter 12, verse 7 where “Michael and his angels” fight “the dragon and his angels.” The most logical way to interpret this passage (remember our rule of hermeneutics) is as a description of warfare between two armies of angels, each led by an angel—Michael leading one army and Satan (the dragon) leading the other.

Also, the book of Revelation refers to Jesus as “Jesus Christ” seven times, “Jesus” six times, “Christ” four times, “Lord Jesus” once, and “Lord Jesus Christ” once. Why would the author of the book of Revelation suddenly call Jesus Christ by the name Michael? It makes no sense—especially since there is nothing anywhere else in the Bible that would support a sudden name change like that.

Source

So for thirty years you taught as a Watchtower witness which you now condemn as “The false Church”, and now you think that you have unambiguous truth that Jesus is Michael?

Thats laughable!

April 15, 2009 at 6:13 am#127699

Participant

Quote

If you are to state he is Jesus you diminish the Son of God.

Is it diminishing to call the son of God a malwahk?

Then I guess the Bible diminishes the son of God, in Nick's opinion.

Who is wrong–the Bible or Nick?

April 15, 2009 at 6:14 am#127700

Participant

Quote

Hi david,
The bible never says Jesus is an angel,

Nick, are you sure. Your friend, T8 thinks it does. You have yet to respond to his post that I pasted 3 times in that other thread.

April 15, 2009 at 6:20 am#127702

Participant

Quote

So for thirty years you taught as a Watchtower witness which you now condemn as “The false Church”, and now you think that you have unambiguous truth that Jesus is Michael?

Thats laughable!

I agree. And it's because of such comments that I believe he will soon be distancing himself from JW's just to be taken seriously. He will abandon things he actually believes in order to fit in.

Quote

At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. Saul as Paul. (Gen 49:1,2; Mat 10:2; Acts 13:7
God has also changed peoples names when they take on new roles. While dying, Rachel called her newborn son Ben-oni (meaning “Son of My Mourning”), but her bereaved husband Jacob chose to name him Benjamin (Son of the Right Hand). (Ge 35:16-18)
An event in a person’s later life sometimes provided the basis for giving a new name to a person. Esau, for example, got his name Edom (meaning “Red”) from the red lentil stew for which he sold his birthright.—Ge 25:30-34.
Jehovah changed the name of Abram to Abraham (“Father of a Crowd” [Multitude]) and that of Sarai (possibly, “Contentious”) to Sarah (“Princess”), both new names being prophetic. (Ge 17:5,6,15,16) Because of his perseverance in grappling with an angel, Jacob was told: “Your name will no longer be called Jacob but Israel [Contender (Perseverer) With God; or, God Contends], for you have contended with God and with men so that you at last prevailed.” (Ge 32:28) This change in name was a token of God’s blessing and was later confirmed. (Ge 35:10) Evidently, therefore, when the Scriptures prophetically speak of “a new name,” the reference is to a name that would appropriately represent its bearer.—Isa 62:2; 65:15; Re 3:12.
Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth.

April 15, 2009 at 6:24 am#127703

Participant

Hi david,
The word for angel can also mean messenger. But their usage is quite different.

Is this the verse you thought might prove Jesus is an angel?

Malachi 3:1
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

April 15, 2009 at 6:52 am#127709

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….3;st=10

Participant

Yes, back to the unanswered posts.

Quote

I though we could start with T8's point above. Is T8 wrong?

So, we have a better idea what he is saying, let's look at the full context:

“We know that Jesus is not and angel because we are told just that in Hebrews.”–Kerwin.

T8 responds:
“Actually that is an assumption on your part.

First off, it says to which of the angels, and then points to the son. This can equally be read as him not being an angel and being an angel too. Try reading it with the understanding that he is an angel and it also makes sense.

Secondly scripture calls Jesus an angel.

Malachi 3:1
“See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.

Almost without exception this passage has been interpreted to refer to two messengers – John the Baptist as the first messenger (or angel) “preparing the way” and the Lord Jesus Christ as the second “messenger (or angel) of the covenant”. It is also quoted in Matt.11:10.

NOTE: The word for angel (messenger) in the OT is mal'ak {mal-awk'} – hence Malachi.

Matthew 11:10-15,
“This is he, of whom it is written, 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You'.

John 13:16
I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

The reality here is that the word 'angel' means 'messenger' and Jesus and John were both messengers. Messengers can be men, cherub, seraph, or whatever God chooses. More often than not, translators use the word “angel” when it is a being from heaven, and messenger when it is a “man” – hence why we usually think that all angels are always beings from heaven.”

Then, in his next post, he says:
“Hi Nick.

The word angel in the OT is {mal-awk}. This word is applied to men and heavenly beings. That is my point. So in the usage of that word, Jesus is indeed an angel {mal-awk}.

I have never taught that Jesus is a cherub or seraph, so in reference to them being called messengers, I am not lumping Jesus in that group.”

I thought we could begin with this thought as it is the only apparent “contradiction” of believing Michael is another name for Jesus. As T8 points out, it is based on an “assumption.”
Is T8 wrong Nick?

April 15, 2009 at 8:45 am#127714

Participant

Hi david,
One scripture that is translated as messenger seems a weak basis for any sort of doctrine but then the JWs only loosely use scripture anyway prefering weak logic and inference.

April 15, 2009 at 9:59 am#127719

Cindy

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,12:35)

An angel is simply a created spirit being, that includes Jesus.

Georg

April 15, 2009 at 10:02 am#127720

Cindy

Participant

Quote (Texas @ April 15 2009,01:30)

Who is Michael the archangel?

My question is, does it really matter if we know?

Georg

April 15, 2009 at 2:49 pm#127727

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 15 2009,13:18)

Quote (Texas @ April 15 2009,11:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2009,07:42)

Hi Texas,
No you have proved your faith in men and implication and logic ahead of what is written.
Such is no form of truth or proof.

Daniel 10:13
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Hi Texas

Source

So for thirty years you taught as a Watchtower witness which you now condemn as “The false Church”, and now you think that you have unambiguous truth that Jesus is Michael?

Thats laughable!

Have a good laugh my friend, but lets hope that you don't die laughing! On second thought that might just be a good way to go eh? He! He! Texas!

April 15, 2009 at 5:58 pm#127736

Participant

Hi texas,
Have you left the Watchtower if you continue their style of loose scriptural adherence?
Find a scripture where Jesus is said to be Michael and then we will seek witnessing verses to prove it.

2 Corinthians 13
1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

April 15, 2009 at 10:34 pm#127760