Who is this Jesus?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03)

Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1

“Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15).

Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man.

Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “

http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm

The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08)

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer.

Hi,
A little adding to scripture here.

Yes God said in Genesis
” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness”
Yes Collosians says of Christ
” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation”

But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption.

Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.

Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood.

John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation.

Please stay with what is revealed.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03)

Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1

Hi,
Isaiah was moved by the Spirit of God as a prophet. He spoke the words given to him by God in Isaiah 6. He saw the glory of God, in a vision, and not God Himself as no form is described and as revealed “His glory”in Jn 12.41.

The thrice holy “evidence” of any trinity is banal, and shallow speculation.

The speculation about the being in Isaiah being the Son of God on a throne has no substance and seems to be derived by an unnecessary and unscriptural process of elimination.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40)

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed.

Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.”

Not true!
Adam was made in the image of God.
Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come.

Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38
Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall.

The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh.

Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1,
manner 1, form 1; 16

Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1,
manner 1, form 1; 16



[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 

Hi,
Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT.
He is the Son of that God.
He said so and we believe him.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17)

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him.

Sir,
Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God?

Sir,
Do you believe that holy thing which was born of Mary was a human Son of God, as the WORD of God says?

Luke 1:31, 35
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

[Cubes]

Hi all:

Time out!

What's with the different guest names and copious posts? I think that we are all passionate and want to share what's on our hearts and construct/defend our arguments scripturally. Good. But I think the pace and volume together is taking away from that purpose.

I don't know about you but it takes me time to pore over things… and when posts are flying around my ears left and right, then I largely miss what is being said. So if I haven't responded to anything addressed to me, it's not for lack of having anything to say but just trying to catch up that's all.

I think in the interest of truth, we should resolve to slow down the pace a bit, one or two points over a period of time to give people a chance to respond, before moving on to the next…expecially when the posts are long. IAR, I am still on next week so don't be in haste alright? Sorry. Some of us are just slower.

Take care.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God?

Adam was a son of God.
Lk 3.38

[Anonymous]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:31)

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God? Sir, Do you believe that holy thing which was born of Mary was a human Son of God, as the WORD of God says? Luke 1:31, 35 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Sir, whose voice did Israel hear, in Deuteronomy 4:33?

Did any people ever hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as you have heard, and live? (Dt. 4:33)

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form (John 5:37).

And you said: Surely the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he still lives. Now therefore, why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the LORD our God anymore, then we shall die. For who is there of all flesh who has heard the voice of the living God speaking from the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? (Dt. 5:24-26)

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:31)

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God? Sir, Do you believe that holy thing which was born of Mary was a human Son of God, as the WORD of God says? Luke 1:31, 35 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Hi,
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and Son of man, through Mary.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:59)

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God? Adam was a son of God. Lk 3.38

Sir,
When did Adam stop being a son of God, biblically speaking?
Why are we not sons of God, being from Adam, and is his image?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:02)

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:31) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God? Sir, Do you believe that holy thing which was born of Mary was a human Son of God, as the WORD of God says? Luke 1:31, 35 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Hi, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and Son of man, through Mary.

sir,
Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Cubes @ July 27 2005,21:48)

Hi all: Time out! What's with the different guest names and copious posts?  I think that we are all passionate and want to share what's on our hearts and construct/defend our arguments scripturally.  Good.  But I think the pace and volume together is taking away from that purpose. I don't know about you but it takes me time to pore over things… and when posts are flying around my ears left and right, then I largely miss what is being said.  So if I haven't responded to anything addressed to me, it's not for lack of having anything to say but just trying to catch up that's all. I think in the interest of truth, we should resolve to slow down the pace a bit, one or two points over a period of time to give people a chance to respond, before moving on to the next…expecially when the posts are long.  IAR, I am still on next week so don't be in haste alright?  Sorry.  Some of us are just slower. Take care.

Hi cubes,
Yes one or two are apparently assuming several aliases to hide behind to give the impression that they have widespread support for their obtuse understandings.

They also use the avalanche technique to pour in repeated information.

It will mean logging in may be required.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:11)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:02) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:31) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God? Sir, Do you believe that holy thing which was born of Mary was a human Son of God, as the WORD of God says? Luke 1:31, 35 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Hi, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and Son of man, through Mary. sir, Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is?

Hi,
We are all still sons of God, through Adam, in one way.
Acts 1728
” ..'We also are His offspring' Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone”

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:17)

Quote (Cubes @ July 27 2005,21:48) Hi all: Time out! What's with the different guest names and copious posts?  I think that we are all passionate and want to share what's on our hearts and construct/defend our arguments scripturally.  Good.  But I think the pace and volume together is taking away from that purpose. I don't know about you but it takes me time to pore over things… and when posts are flying around my ears left and right, then I largely miss what is being said.  So if I haven't responded to anything addressed to me, it's not for lack of having anything to say but just trying to catch up that's all. I think in the interest of truth, we should resolve to slow down the pace a bit, one or two points over a period of time to give people a chance to respond, before moving on to the next…expecially when the posts are long.  IAR, I am still on next week so don't be in haste alright?  Sorry.  Some of us are just slower. Take care. Hi cubes, Yes one or two are apparently assuming several aliases to hide behind to give the impression that they have widespread support for their obtuse understandings. They also use the avalanche technique to pour in repeated information. It will mean logging in may be required.

I would log in but I'm just here to ask a few questions, and as I'm not staying, I didn't wish to log on, and I am the same guest and 'guest just visiting', who is asking you these questions. As I see you have other 'guests' I am -…visiting.

I agree we are made in the image and likeness of God, and that is why the death penality was instigated by God after the flood for those who shed man's blood, for our bodies are made by Him, and our life, in our blood, is not as the animal kingdom that we are the lords of, but He is the Lord of us.

But if we are still sons of God, why must we be born again to become sons of God and why are we called dead?

[epistemaniac]

Quote (vicalcabasa @ July 27 2005,02:04)

Quote (epistemaniac @ July 26 2005,22:26) t8, you said “The point is that even if he were equal to God as you are saying then that shows that he is not God. If you are equal to anything then it shows that you are not that thing you are equal too.” Exactly! The point here is that while Jesus is equal to God in regard to His essence, He and the Father are not the same in identity. That is, the Father is not the Son. “E.g., If you come first EQUAL in a race, does that mean that both racers were the same person?” Faulty analogy. God’s nature is utterly unique as to His essence or nature, and thus any attempt to equate God’s nature with a human footrace is bound to fall short, it happens rather quickly in this case. “If 1 bar of Gold is equal to $5000.00, then are they the same object? Of course not.” This is a confusion of categories. You are taking a physical object, in this case gold, and attempting to show that the ontological and metaphysical categories I am speaking in do not correspond. And while you are correct, it is also irrelevant. In this case a metaphysical being, a being that is spirit, can be spoken of as having one essence while this essence can be at the same time spoken of being in 3 persons without “breaking” the essence itself. And this is where your analogy falls apart, you can't speak of a physical object as being itself (A) and not being itself (~A) , for the object is restricted to a time and space existence, and thus a basic law of reasoning is the simple formula A is A. However, this particualr restriction does not apply to God, who is Spirit. In this case a certain being, whom we call “God”, we could say is A, while always being A in an absolute sense, A can remain A so long as when we speak of it in different ways (say B, C and D, or as Father, Son and Spirit) so long as when we speak of B, C and D we never say that A ceases to be A. The obvious point here is that God is A, and speaking of Him as Father, Son and Holy Spirit never, ever, means that we are have claimed to change the very nature of A to something it is not, ie non A. “If Yeshua is equal to God, then is he God? Of course not. He is like him. The fact that he is equal to God means that he is not God himself.” If Jesus is equal to God, then is He God? Of course. What you are doing is apparently failing to subjectively properly translate the term “God” to “Father”. The only way your sentence “If Yeshua is equal to God, then is he God?” …. could be not true is if we wrote something like “If Yeshua is equal to God, then is he the Father?” Then your answer “Of course not.” would be exactly correct. For Jesus is not in fact the Father. This error comes into Unitarian thinking so much that it is simply amazing. Partly this is due to attempts made to engage in equivocation of terms so as to try and make logical statements or concepts (A is A for instance) into illogical statements (ie the claim that A is A but then claiming that at the same time and in the same relationship A is non-A) . These attempts can probably effective in many cases, and this is sad because people may come away with the idea that you have made an important point when in reality all you have done is to have created a straw man, and then proceeded to knock it down. Feels pretty good I am sure, but really doesn’t accomplish anything meaningful. “Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, The word “equal” in this verse is the Greek word “isos” which can mean * similar in amount Or kind * agree * equal * like This verse is simply saying that Jesus has the nature of God and is like God. This is what the rest of the New Testament teaches including John 1:1. Jesus is god (adjective, not noun) by class, not God (noun) in identity . God begat a son in his likeness, the likeness of himself, (Image of God, firstborn). Then through his son he made creation and us.” Yes, this verse is saying that Jesus has the nature of God, you are correct there. Where you fail to connect the dots is to make the natural step in reasoning which says that if Jesus has the same nature as God, He must in fact be God. Just as a human has a child that is of a like nature, so too, the only begotten Son is of the same nature as His Father. Simple really. You could see this obvious point if you would stop trying to read Scriptures through Unitarian shaded glasses. blessings HI epi, So using you’re reasoning, if a King has a child, he is the prince and they are both royals. And the prince is heir to the throne so you would treat the prince as you would the king. But the King is not the prince and the prince is not the king. But using your own words to reason. “ Where you fail to connect the dots is to make the natural step in reasoning which says that if Jesus has the same nature as God, He must in fact be God” . This would mean by your implication that the King is the prince and vice-versa. Which is not. It does not add up. And also here you admit that you arrive in the conclusion that god is triune in nature by CONNECTIONG THE DOT BY NATURAL STEP IN REASONING, Its Not by scriptures but by DEDUCTION. You declare that God is IMMUTABLE But then go on to mutate god in 3 persons or is it being. That is not logical. You use logic only if it suits your beliefs But ignored it when not. This my friend is not a sincere attitude in seeking the truth.

ahhhh…. so now you have the gift to see into men's hearts and to know whether or not they have “sincere attitudes”…. I see… well since the ability to see into belongs solely to God; (1 Ki 8:39 NKJV) “”then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive, and act, and give to everyone according to all his ways, whose heart You know (for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men),”

then your claim to be able to do what only God can do means that your problems are far more severe then any imaginings you have about how sincere my attitude is in seeking the truth….. more severe even then your denial of the trinity, you seem to be having some sort of identity crises…. if only God can see into the hearts of men, and you claim to see into my heart and know whether or not I am “sincere”…… well… can you see where this is leading?

[Anonymous]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:17) Quote (Cubes @ July 27 2005,21:48) Hi all: Time out! What's with the different guest names and copious posts?  I think that we are all passionate and want to share what's on our hearts and construct/defend our arguments scripturally.  Good.  But I think the pace and volume together is taking away from that purpose. I don't know about you but it takes me time to pore over things… and when posts are flying around my ears left and right, then I largely miss what is being said.  So if I haven't responded to anything addressed to me, it's not for lack of having anything to say but just trying to catch up that's all. I think in the interest of truth, we should resolve to slow down the pace a bit, one or two points over a period of time to give people a chance to respond, before moving on to the next…expecially when the posts are long.  IAR, I am still on next week so don't be in haste alright?  Sorry.  Some of us are just slower. Take care. Hi cubes, Yes one or two are apparently assuming several aliases to hide behind to give the impression that they have widespread support for their obtuse understandings. They also use the avalanche technique to pour in repeated information. It will mean logging in may be required. I would log in but I'm just here to ask a few questions, and as I'm not staying, I didn't wish to log on, and I am the same guest and 'guest just visiting', who is asking you these questions. As I see you have other 'guests' I am -…visiting. I agree we are made in the image and likeness of God, and that is why the death penality was instigated by God after the flood for those who shed man's blood, for our bodies are made by Him, and our life, in our blood, is not as the animal kingdom that we are the lords of, but He is the Lord of us. But if we are still sons of God, why must we be born again to become sons of God and why are we called dead?

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Why couldn’t any of the sons of Adam come?
Why does it say, “and satan also came among them”? S

atan is fallen, also, why is he there, as an ’also’, but not a son of God, when none of Adam’s offspring are there and not one is representing the human race there?

Why must we be born again, and have a new spirit, to be His sons? -which is His Spirit, created within us? Why are we dead and without that Spirit that makes us His sons?

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

[Anonymous]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:17) Quote (Cubes @ July 27 2005,21:48) Hi all: Time out! What's with the different guest names and copious posts?  I think that we are all passionate and want to share what's on our hearts and construct/defend our arguments scripturally.  Good.  But I think the pace and volume together is taking away from that purpose. I don't know about you but it takes me time to pore over things… and when posts are flying around my ears left and right, then I largely miss what is being said.  So if I haven't responded to anything addressed to me, it's not for lack of having anything to say but just trying to catch up that's all. I think in the interest of truth, we should resolve to slow down the pace a bit, one or two points over a period of time to give people a chance to respond, before moving on to the next…expecially when the posts are long.  IAR, I am still on next week so don't be in haste alright?  Sorry.  Some of us are just slower. Take care. Hi cubes, Yes one or two are apparently assuming several aliases to hide behind to give the impression that they have widespread support for their obtuse understandings. They also use the avalanche technique to pour in repeated information. It will mean logging in may be required. I would log in but I'm just here to ask a few questions, and as I'm not staying, I didn't wish to log on, and I am the same guest and 'guest just visiting', who is asking you these questions. As I see you have other 'guests' I am -…visiting. I agree we are made in the image and likeness of God, and that is why the death penality was instigated by God after the flood for those who shed man's blood, for our bodies are made by Him, and our life, in our blood, is not as the animal kingdom that we are the lords of, but He is the Lord of us. But if we are still sons of God, why must we be born again to become sons of God and why are we called dead?

Sir,
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Why couldn’t any of the sons of Adam come?
Why does it say, and satan also came among them? Satan is fallen, also, why is he there, as an ’also’ but not a son of God; but none of Adam’s offspring are there?

Why must we be born again, and have a new spirit, to be His sons? -which is what must happen if we are to be His sons, by His Spirit, creating a new spirit within us?

Why are we dead and without that Spirit that makes us His sons?

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,22:11)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,22:02) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:31) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,21:25) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,21:17) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,20:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2005,19:40) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,19:08) Quote (Guest @ July 27 2005,18:03) Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible Isaiah 6 Lord–here Adonai, Jehovah in Isa 6:5; Jesus Christ is meant as speaking in Isa 6:10, according to Joh 12:41. Isaiah could only have “seen” the Son, not the divine essence (Joh 1:18). The words in Isa 6:10 are attributed by Paul (Ac 28:25, 26) to the Holy Ghost. Thus the Trinity in unity is implied; as also by the thrice “Holy” (Isa 6:3). Isaiah mentions the robes, temple, and seraphim, but not the form of God Himself. Whatever it was, it was different from the usual Shekinah: that was on the mercy seat, this on a throne; that a cloud and fire, of this no form is specified: over that were the cherubim, over this the seraphim; that had no clothing, this had a flowing robe and train. http://www.studylight.org/com….#Isa6_1 “Man was created in the image and likeness of God as he is revealed in Christ, who is the image of the invisible God (Gen. 1:26; Col. 1:15). Adam was created in the image of God in the form and constitution of his body and his human nature. That is to say, the first Adam was formed in the image of him who was to come as the second Adam, Christ, the God-man. Adam did not crawl out of a slime pit, or drop out of a tree. He was created in the image of Christ, who is the image of God. The Son of God came to be partaker of our flesh and blood, that we might be partakers of his flesh and of his bones (Eph. 5:30). “ http://www.sovereigngraceofgod.com/sermons/df-gen07.htm The image of God that Adam was made in is the image of the human body of the LORD Jesus Christ, that was to come, (Colossians 1:15) who is YHWH in His human nature, in His new human tabernacle, which He humbled Himself to 'put on', from the womb of the virgin  as new creation human being man who would be Kinsman-Redeemer. Hi, A little adding to scripture here. Yes God said in Genesis ” Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness” Yes Collosians says of Christ ” He is the image of the invisible God, thje firstborn of all creation” But scripture does not identify the 'us' as God and the Son of God. That is prsumption. Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption. Neither is Christ ever called the “God-Man”. He is of divine nature, even the exact representation of His nature but he is an “image” of God and we cannot derive that he is a part of God from whom he was begotten ,or a God-Man or any sort of deity as himself. The fullness of deity was dwelling “in him”not, as him[Coll2.19]. That goes beyone presumption into falsehood. John 12 41 explains that it was not God who was seen so scripture is not broken-it was “His Glory”. It is not the same thing. To say it must have been the Son is to go beyond scripture into vain and false speculation. Please stay with what is revealed. Sir; you said, “Neither does it say that man is made in the image of the Son. Just because the Son is the image of the Father does not prove we are the image of the Son. That is presumption.” Not true! Adam was made in the image of God. Adam was the image, form, pattern, print, of Him -Jesus Christ- that was to come. Adam son of Gd; Luke 3:38 Adam fallen, separated, without the Spirit of the living God within is dead, but exists, whether in the body or out of the body, and is not son of Elohim since the fall. The Word of Gd says, “Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. A search finds that Adam was made in the exact pattern of  Gd, who is Jesus Christ, who is the LORD of hosts from heaven in flesh. Figure -tupos AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16 Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16 AV – ensample 5, print 2, figure 2, example 2, pattern 2, fashion 1, manner 1, form 1; 16  Hi, Jesus Christ is not the God of the OT. He is the Son of that God. He said so and we believe him. Sir, Do you believe the Scriptures that Adam was made as the [human] son of God? Sir, Do you believe that holy thing which was born of Mary was a human Son of God, as the WORD of God says? Luke 1:31, 35 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Hi, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and Son of man, through Mary. sir, Would Adam's seed be sons of God and sons of Adam, both, if Adam had not fallen? biblically speaking, that is?

Hi,
According to scripture we are still both in a way.There is no scripture since Acts 17 that says Adam's stock ceased to be sons of God is there?

[Author]

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