Who is this Jesus?

[Cubes]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2005,21:36)

hi cubes, I was born again of the Spirit 25 yrs ago and, like Cornelius, recieved baptism in the name of Jesus later. I gradually awoke to realise the very deep beauty and harmony of the Word of God that I had loved since a schoolboy when a teacher read Acts to us as religious teaching. I studied it on my own writing notes in margins and collecting my favourite jewels. I also read a lot on the work of the Spirit and the books of Derek Prince and others. Comparison of traditional teachings with The Word soon showed me that they were clay compared with gold. Habit also quickly faded into obscurity but learning to be different in my beliefs and cope with lonliness and natural insecurity were harder. I was a quiet and timid type who was not used to standing alone and being mocked for my beliefs. I kept them to myself as others suggested I was the rebel and it is easy to listen to them and self doubt rather than your heart at times. No one else in my large and extended family shared my views for years. If you are not sure of your beliefs then it seems like disloyalty to God and risking the faith of others to share those views. I found it was worth it though. I felt like the blind man whom Jesus healed and went then back to reassure him he was on the right track for speaking the truth about his healing. You have to know what it is to be weak and follow him to regain real strength and faith.

It's amazing that you never forgot about Acts in religion class. Those memories are precious. I think it is very important that children hear the actual word of God being read to them, even the very young. I believe that the Spirit of God has a way of making it understood.

With regards to the lonely walk, I imagine it would continue to be that as far as our relationships with the world is concerned. Still, there is the sweet fellowship of the spirit and with those who love God and I pray that the Lord increases his grace upon us all to know that fellowship in these challenging times.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 03 2005,15:05)

Yes, Nick.  I am beginning to wonder whether anyone can be “convinced” using the scriptures or is it something one has to see on one's own? It seems evident and simple enough but most trinitarians don't seem to see it.  How can one say he believes in Jesus and refuse Jesus' own testimony of himself??? I think part of the problem lies in the fact that so many great people of the faith, might have been trinitarians.  Eg:  The Wesleys, Billy Graham, etc.

Yes I agree. All truth can only be revealed by the Spirit. If one ignores the Spirit then they can still have a form of religion, but they deny the power of God by doing so.

It is written that this will happen and it is happening. Yet it is still weird to see such obvious truths being argued against by the so called keepers of the way. Like the Pharisees, they know the letter but do not know the Spirit. For they have neglected the weightier things.

For will some not say, “we prophecied in your name, we did this and that in your name”, yet the reply they get is “I never knew you”. It seems sad that me that men can know the writings, but not know the one who inspired them.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
I believe Jesus wants us to learn from the centurion.

Matt 8.5f
” And when he had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, entreating him and saying
'Sir, my servant is lying paralysed at home and in great pain'
And he said to him
'I will come and heal him'
But the centurion answered and said
'Lord , I am not qualified for you to come under my roof, but just say the word and my servant will be healed. For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me;and I say to this one “go” and he goes,and to another”come' and he comes, and to my slave 'Do this”and he does it'
Now when Jesus heard this he marvelled …….
And Jesus said to the centurion
'Go your way;let it be done to you as you have believed'
And the servant was healed that very hour.”

The Romans ruled the Jews. In the natural way of thinking there was no way that Jesus would be seen to have authority higher than the centurion. But he knew that Jesus had authority over him and he showed respect to him and called him “sir” and “lord”

He also understood the power that flowed with that huge spiritual authority as Son of God. He knew the Father's power flowed at the order of the Son. His faith grasped that Jesus did not even have to physically be present to heal.

[Evangelion]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2005,20:40)

Hi, Yeshua was different to us in one way. When we die our body decays but his did not. Acts 2. 26f ” '..Moreover my flesh also will abide in hope;because thou wilt not abandon my soul to Hades ,nor allow they holy One to undergo decay.Thou hast made known to me the ways of life ;thou wilt make me full of gladness with thy presence' Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriach David that he both died and was buried ,and his tomb is with us to this day. And so because he was a prophet, and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants upon his throne he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ , that he was neither abandoned to Hades , nor did his flesh suffer decay.This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses”

The only reason why his body did not decay is because it was raised in three days, before decay could occur.

[NickHassan]

Interesting E,
In John 11 we are told Lazarus had been in the tomb 4 days and Martha said ” Lord by this time there will be a stench for he has been dead 4 days”

[NickHassan]

Hi ,
We are different from Jesus in that we are told that his body did not undergo corruption. Why was that? Was it to give meaning to our being the body of Christ on earth that does not die?

[Adam Pastor]

Evangelion, answered you accordingly …

Quote (Evangelion @ Mar 8 2005,20:40)

The only reason why his body did not decay is because it was raised in three days, before decay could occur.

If he had remained dead any longer, Christ's body no doubt would have saw corruption and stinketh, just like any other human being.

The difference being, GOD raised him from the dead BEFORE he saw corruption! GOD raised him BEFORE corruption set in!
He did not remain dead as long as Lazarus had!

[NickHassan]

Hi Rudy,
Coll 2 6f
” As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord so walk IN HIM, having been firmly rooted and now built up IN HIM and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude. See to it THAT NO ONE TAKES YOU CAPTIVE THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND EMPTY DECEPTION, ACCORDING TO THE TRADITION OF MEN, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
For IN HIM ALL THE FULLNESS OF DEITY DWELLS in bodily form, and IN HIM you have been made complete, and he is the head over ALL RULE AND AUTHORITY; and IN HIM you were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive TOGETHER WITH HIM having forgiven us all our transgressions”

So

All are sinners
All need forgiveness from God.
That comes through baptism in the name of Jesus.
We are then in him.
God dwells in Jesus by His Spirit.
All authority is under Jesus.
Jesus is now our Lord and the head of his body of which we form a part.
We need to be built up in him
We need to walk in him
We need to stay with the teachings of Jesus.
We need to beware false teachings that are based on the imaginations of men.
We need to beware of deception.
Tradition was the enemy of Jesus on earth personalised by the Pharisees who worshipped it.
Tradition still hates Jesus.
Tradition harbours antichrist.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18
If Yeshua asked you what he asked Peter in Mt 16

” But who do you say that I am?”

what would be your reply?

[Is 1:18]

Hi NH,
My reply would be “He is the Christ, the Son of the living God”
That is WHO He is.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is,
I agree.

So he is not that living God even if he has divine nature?

I don't call him a deity because that is what we call beings that are worshipped.

What did you think of Sammo's reference on Worship?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
So if God is spirit and Yeshua is the image of the Father then surely he originally was spirit too as the logos. Spirit clearly includes mind and heart in this context and not just life as God and the Logos show theses type of qualities.
It is just that neither the Father nor the Son had natural bodies that we know of. That does not preclude the Father from manifesting in bodily form. Neither does it preclude God from having charcteristics that we normally associate with bodies, such as seeing, hearing having a voice or being heard walking in the Garden of Eden.

We now know that Yeshua has a heavenly body as 1 Cor 15 shows us, and we will too. Certainly the heavenly body of Yeshua was given after Adam was created as the natural came before the spiritual and heavenly.

Do you agree?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 28 2005,03:35)

Hi NH, My reply would be “He is the Christ, the Son of the living God” That is WHO He is.

Hi Is 1.18,
Did you see the little miracle yesterday?

I asked you this question and at exactly the same time you supplied this same answer written in another forum before you wrote it here. And it is the answer that proved the presence of the Spirit of God to Jesus in Peter?

Praise God! It shows me we both share in the same Spirit of God. That comforts me that I am still on the path as we all need reassurance from God and He gives us these little signs at times. It also gladdens my heart that you have the shoot growing and the corn appearing.

The same Peter was immediately rebuked by Jesus for also producing evidence of another plant also growing in his garden that Jesus needed to pull out. Do not be downhearted dear brother. Just make more room for that gentle Spirit to teach and empower you and make you more useful to the Master.

Put aside the competitiveness and rigidity of youth and lets walk together as His family in love.
Be encouraged as I am.

[NickHassan]

Hi Rudy,
I understand “Christ” comes from the Greek word for “light”. So it is no surprise that he is the light of the world that we should walk with and become sons of light. It is also he that is truth that helps us see truth according to that light. He is also the way that the light reveals.

Twice the bible tells us that “Christ” also means “messiah”. This word only appears in the OT in Daniel but there is no doubt the Jews knew what it meant. They constantly were seeking to know if he was the expected Messiah. Of course they were expecting the messiah who comes [again] as world conqueror having missed the earlier descriptions in Isaiah of him coming as the suffering servant, the stumbling stone.

So when Peter said
“you are the Christ, the Son of the living God”

He was saying Jesus is the expected messiah.
He was saying that he is not their living God.
He was saying he is the Son of the living God.

That is the truth.

[Proclaimer]

Is Christ Wisdom?

I offer my opinion only. This post is in response to a discussion that was developing on the Trinity discussion, but should really take place here.
==============================================

Proverbs 8:22-30
22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,  before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,

This verse is talking about Wisdom, whom many believe is Christ. This scriptures appears to compliment other scriptures that teach that Jesus was given birth by God and then created all THINGS though him.

From this scripture we can see the following points:

[NickHassan]

Hi,
To understand the title of Jesus as the “only begotten son” we only have the clue of the other use of this word in the bible.

Heb 11.17
“By faith, Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac; and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son”

Was he the first son ? no
Was he the only son? no
Was he the first son of Abraham and Sarai? yes
Were they both of faith? yes according to Heb 11.8-11
Was he the son through whom the promise was to be inherited? yes-in that way he was unique.
Was the relationship between Abraham and Isaac a type of the relationship between the Father and the Son? yes-both sons were given up to die and given back alive [Isaac as a type of the resurrection-Heb 11.19].

I am not quite sure how it all fits but perhaps someone can help.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Lk 4.18
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free those who are oppressed, to proclaim the favourable year of the Lord”
Lk 4.25
“But I say to you in truth, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the sky was shut up for 3 years and six months, when a great famine came over the land; and yet Elijah was sent to none of them, but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet;and none of them were cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian”

Having just announced his mission Jesus made it plain God's ways are not our ways. The Power of God had been available to relive tremendous death and suffering in the time of the prophets but the sick and hungry had not accessed that help. they did not know faith or recognoise the importance of the messengers from God. The same would happen with Jesus. Things are done God's way or not at all and wisdom demands we seek His ways and not expect Him to fulfill ours.

[Frank4YAHWEH]

Peace greetings ALL,

This is a great discussion on whether Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator is His son Yahshua whom He anointed and appointed as King and raised from the dead (resurrected).

Just from my above comment you can see that I believe that He is not. Yahweh is our Heavenly Father and Creator, not His son. Why would Father Yahweh need to anoint and appoint Himself as King? Father Yahweh did not die for our sins, it was His son Yahshua who died. Father Yahweh can not die! Scripture plainly states that Father Yahweh raised His son Yahshua from the dead. Father Yahweh did not die and raise Himself from the dead on His own volition.

I believe much of the confusion comes because our Heavenly Father is not given the esteem due to His Name by referring to Him as a mere God or as “the LORD”.

Ascribe to Yahweh the Esteem (glory) Due to His Name

Psalm 29:2  
Psalm 96:8
I Chronicles 16:29

I also do not believe in the pre-existence doctrine.

http://www.freewebs.com/frank4yahweh/index.htm

[Anonymous]

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 13 2005,18:37)

Peace greetings ALL, This is a great discussion on whether Yahweh our Heavenly Father and Creator is His son Yahshua whom He anointed and appointed as King and raised from the dead (resurrected). Just from my above comment you can see that I believe that He is not. Yahweh is our Heavenly Father and Creator, not His son. Why would Father Yahweh need to anoint and appoint Himself as King? Father Yahweh did not die for our sins, it was His son Yahshua who died. Father Yahweh can not die! Scripture plainly states that Father Yahweh raised His son Yahshua from the dead. Father Yahweh did not die and raise Himself from the dead on His own volition. I believe much of the confusion comes because our Heavenly Father is not given the esteem due to His Name by referring to Him as a mere God or as “the LORD”. Ascribe to Yahweh the Esteem (glory) Due to His Name Psalm 29:2   Psalm 96:8 I Chronicles 16:29 I also do not believe in the pre-existence doctrine. http://www.freewebs.com/frank4yahweh/index.htm

Jesus is YHWH the Redeemer:

Rom. 4:8, “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
Psalm 32:2, “How blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
Rom. 9:29, “And just as Isaiah foretold, 'Except the Lord [kurios] of Sabaoth had left to us a posterity. We would have become as Sodom, and would have resembled Gomorrah.”
Isaiah 1:9, “Unless the Lord [YHWH] of hosts Had left us a few survivors, We would be like Sodom, We would be like Gomorrah.”
Rom. 10:13, “for 'Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord [kurios] will be saved.'”
Joel 2:32, “And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord [YHWH] will be delivered,”
Rom. 11:34, “For who has known the mind of the Lord [kurios], or who became His counselor?”
Isaiah 40:13, “Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord [YHWH], Or as His counselor has informed Him?”
Rom. 15:11, “And again, “Praise the Lord [kurios] all you Gentiles, and let all the peoples praise Him.”
Psalm 117:1, “Praise the Lord [YHWH], all nations; Laud Him, all peoples!”
1 Cor. 2:16, “For who has known the mind of the Lord [kurios], that he should instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
Isaiah 40:13, “Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord [YHWH], Or as His counselor has informed Him?”
1 Cor. 3:20, “The Lord [kurios] knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless.”
Psalm 94:11, “The Lord [YHWH] knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.”
1 Cor. 10:26, “for the earth is the Lord’s [kurios], and all it contains.”
Psalm 24:1, “The earth is the LORD’s [YHWH], and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it.”
2 Cor. 10:17, “But he who boasts, let him boast in the Lord [kurios].”
Jer. 9:24, “but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the Lord [YHWH] who exercises lovingkindness, justice, and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,” declares the Lord [YHWH].”

Malachi 3:1 – Behold, I (YHWH) will send my messenger (John the Baptist), and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Note:
1) YHWH is speaking in both verses
2) YHWH is who we 'seek' and 'delight in'
3) The 'way' was prepared for YHWH 'our God'
4) YHWH came and stood in 'His temple'
5) Mal 3:1 switches to 3rd person, in the middle of the sentence(!) “behold, He shall come…”
6) YHWH was the 'Messenger' of the covenant – NOT a delagate
7) 'the glory of YHWH' was revealed
8) YHWH shares His glory with noone
9) YHWH did not send a delegate – He promised to and came PERSONALLY
10) YHWH alone is our redeemer and saviour – NOT a delegate
11) Remember, God the Father has NEVER been seen!

Zech 12.10: “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on ME, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for HIM as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Note:

1) YHWH is speaking (He pours out the Spirit).

2) YHWH is 'looked upon' by the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

3) YHWH is 'pierced' by the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

4) It switches to a 3rd person, in the middle of the sentence(!) “mourn for HIM”

5) Remember, God the Father has NEVER been seen, nor can be 'pierced'!

Deut 6: 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHWH) our God is one LORD (YHWH): 5 And thou shalt love the LORD (YHWH) thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

John 14:21 – He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

John 14:23 – Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

One Holy Spirit, One Lord Jesus, One God the Father – YHWH is ONE

[Anonymous]

You are correct FYI, good post. I have yet to see someone who disagrees with your use of these scriptures, address them. Therefore they stand unchallenged.

[Author]

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