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Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2010,09:35) Terraricca wrote: Quote adding Jesus could not have come from man seed because men is born in sin,
I did a search of born and sin in the New International and King James versions of scripture and did not find anything to support this statement. Perhaps you meant to write something about mankind being subject to the spirit of this world. Jesus is obviously an exception to that rule and the only reason I know why he is an exception is because God has mercy on whom he has mercy and compassion on who he has compassion. That may not satisfy some but who am I to question God as he measures out his grace as he chooses and not as I choose and he is just.
Scripture clearly states that Jesus did come from man’s seed. There are two genealogies that make that point though one is his by adoption and the other one tracts his heritage all the way back through Adam to God who created all mankind.
KWthen you could explain to me this ;Ro 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
Ro 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world
Ro 6:13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.
Eze 3:21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself.
Pr 20:9 Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure;
I am clean and without sin”?Ge 4:7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.”
Lev 1:3 “ ‘If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer a male without defect.
Lev 3:1 “ ‘If someone’s offering is a fellowship offering, and he offers an animal from the herd, whether male or female, he is to present before the LORD an animal without defect.
Isa 40:10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,
and his arm rules for him.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.as soon as Adam sin the rest is born and conceived and raised in sin.
Terrarica.
I did explain it when I said “Perhaps you meant to write something about mankind being subject to the spirit of this world.”
There is a debate whether we inherit a corrupt spirit from our ancestors or our spirit is holy when conceived but is later corrupted by our choice to sin.
I have been unable to settle that dispute despite have my own opinion on the matter.
Kerwin,
We inherit corruption from birth, from our Father parent. That is why it was necessary for the Holy Spirit to come upon Mary and not another Male of mankind. Remember that din came into the world through Adam, not Eve, even though it was Eve who first defied God's rule by eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad.
Corruption breeds corruption. Corruption cannot breed incorruption!
What you might look into for yourself is: Is sin in the Spirit or the Soul?
You say 'Corrupt Spirit' – is that what you really meant to say. Is there such a thing? Is it scriptural?Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 14 2010,18:40) Kerwin, We inherit corruption from birth, from our Father parent. That is why it was necessary for the Holy Spirit to come upon Mary and not another Male of mankind. Remember that din came into the world through Adam, not Eve, even though it was Eve who first defied God's rule by eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad.
Corruption breeds corruption. Corruption cannot breed incorruption!
What you might look into for yourself is: Is sin in the Spirit or the Soul?
You say 'Corrupt Spirit' – is that what you really meant to say. Is there such a thing? Is it scriptural?
Just Askin wrote:Quote We inherit corruption from birth, from our Father parent.
So according to you a human being cloned from their mother will not inherit corruption from birth. I am not going to agree with that speculation.
The corrupt spirit is called the spirit of this world in Ephesians 2:2. One is also reborn into a spirit of holiness. The spirit you are born from would be a corrupt spirit. It would also be referred to as the old man according to Romans 6.
Kerwin,
The egg from the female can be considered as the body element. The sperm is that which supplies the 'spirit'.
Even if such a disgustingly corrupt thing as human cloning could be [allowed to be] done it would only be cloning already corrupted flesh. I think your mind's framework is a little ascew here to imagine such a thing.As for Ephesians, do you read that it is Satan that is being refered to as 'the spirit', not the spirit 'of' man. Verse 3, goes on to explain how the corrupt spirit manifests 'himself' as lust and the desire of the flesh and of the mind.
Hi JA,
The spirit of man is not corrupt.
The creation God made He called very good.
But Satan occupies and rules natural flesh and corrupts mindsHi Nick,
Thanks for the statements. Should they be directed to Kerwin.
I wanted him to show me how came about with the idea that the spirit [in man] can be corrupt.
God could not receive it at the death of the soul if it were sinful and corrupt.However, you can read writings where others teach this…out of ignorance, maybe!
There is nothing in scripture portraying man's spirit as sinful nor corrupt.
And it is for this reason that God is willing to give man every opportunity to subject themself to His Will and not have their spirit destroyed in the final death.
A sinful spirit (like the satan followers) did not receive any chance of redemption.
Hi JA,
God does receive back the spirit of every man at death.[Ecc12]
It is the spark of life lent to him.[Jas2]
It does not corrupt I agree.Hi JA,
The second death is not of the spirit but of the soul.
God can destroy body and soul in gehenna.[Mt10]Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2010,00:09) Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 14 2010,18:40) Kerwin, We inherit corruption from birth, from our Father parent. That is why it was necessary for the Holy Spirit to come upon Mary and not another Male of mankind. Remember that din came into the world through Adam, not Eve, even though it was Eve who first defied God's rule by eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad.
Corruption breeds corruption. Corruption cannot breed incorruption!
What you might look into for yourself is: Is sin in the Spirit or the Soul?
You say 'Corrupt Spirit' – is that what you really meant to say. Is there such a thing? Is it scriptural?
Just Askin wrote:Quote We inherit corruption from birth, from our Father parent.
So according to you a human being cloned from their mother will not inherit corruption from birth. I am not going to agree with that speculation.
The corrupt spirit is called the spirit of this world in Ephesians 2:2. One is also reborn into a spirit of holiness. The spirit you are born from would be a corrupt spirit. It would also be referred to as the old man according to Romans 6.
Hi KW,Eph2
“..you formerly walked..according to to the course of this world, according to THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience..”As JA shows you have taken liberties with this verse.
The spirit of man is not a shared spirit or a prince is it?
JustAskin,
Was Marry part of Jesus?
If so then that part would either be the female egg or an equivalent part.
Cloning uses a human egg and stimulates it into dividing.
Scientifically you receive your human body from both you parents. In cloning the genetics both come from the same source which could be the mother or the father.
Technically identical twins are clones and their “parents” are really grandparents. The parent would be the “embryo” that was destroyed by dividing.
You can argue that a corrupted individual can only conceive a corrupted individual. Then you have Mary who is a corrupted individual and Jesus who was not so that reason is flawed.
The simple explanation is that God chose Jesus as special for his own reason and gave him the Spirit of righteousness. I believe Jesus also had a corrupt Spirit but that he always put it to death which is why he prayed “as you will, and not as I will”.
Hi KW,
Jesus was of Mary, a true son of man.
Born into our lowly estate[jb25]he was tempted in all ways as we are but became an overcomer.[rev3.21]
He was not anointed with the Spirit of righteousness till the Jordan.Where is this corrupted spirit in scripture?
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote The spirit of man is not a shared spirit or a prince is it?
As the words “the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience” clearly show the spirit is the same spirit in more than one son of disobedience I would say it is a “shared” spirit or at least a spirit held in common among the sons of disobedience.
Compare this to the unity of the spirit of righteousness that is shared, held in common, by the sons of obedience.
I am attempting to read between the lines of your post and it sounds like you are trying to make the case that Paul is teaching about an external spirit that somehow works within the sons of disobedience.
That is why I pointed out that people must be reborn in spirit. The definition of reborn is born twice and Jesus is speaking of spirit and water. The first birth in spirit would be the spirit of man, otherwise known as the old man, and the second birth is the spirit of righteousness, which we can call the new man. Who things the old man is anything but corrupt? If he old man is not corrupt then why would you repent and what need have you for Jesus’ sacrifice.
The old man is “THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR” which is to say deception. It is the prince because it controls your actions which is why you are not to obey the commands of the flesh.
Satan is the tempter and the corrupt spirit is the part of you that loves to obey him and so fall for his snares.
Hi KW,
So when the spirit of a man returns to God at death do many folk die because of this shared spirit?
No you speak of an agent of the enemy by which Satan controls folk.
Jesus came to set us free,Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,03:36) Hi KW,
Jesus was of Mary, a true son of man.
Born into our lowly estate[jb25]he was tempted in all ways as we are but became an overcomer.[rev3.21]
He was not anointed with the Spirit of righteousness till the Jordan.
Where is this corrupted spirit in scripture?
If you do not see the corrupted spirit in Scripture then reject the need for Jesus. Jesus said he chose to speak as he does to hide the truth from some. It is my hope you are not one he is hiding the truth from.The spirit is not physically water even though Jesus referred to it as water. He worded his argument esoterically because he expects those who truly want what he has to offer to know but not those who are not sincere.
You need to look at the things of God and not men.
I hope my rebuke is gentle but this is an issue that is critical to the gospel as one needs to realize they have a need to get a new spirit. Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 18:31 and Ezekiel 36:26.
Hi KW,
The Spirit of God is one and shared.
But the dominion of darkness is not by one spirit.
It is of a prince with levels of authority and thus subject to division.[Lk11.17f]Sorry Kerwin,
You stumble in your understanding.It has been mentioned by two as a witness, Nick and myself, that the spirit is not corrupt but still you repeat it again.
As for Mary, are you a Scientist?
The Holy Spirit supplied, supernaturally, the uncorrupted genetic material to produce a [male] child.
I am no biologist, and I don't need to be because this is not about human wisdom. God created Adam uncorrupted. You make it seem that He could not make a second Adam because you know about genetics…By the way, I see from two websites that (hoax or truth) scientists can now make babies without sperm… Albeit, female babies ONLY… Albeit Female Only baby Mice… Albeit most if them with major genetic defects. (Thank God I'm won't be living in the next 30 years!!)
I will leave it to others to explain to you.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2010,08:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,03:36) Hi KW,
Jesus was of Mary, a true son of man.
Born into our lowly estate[jb25]he was tempted in all ways as we are but became an overcomer.[rev3.21]
He was not anointed with the Spirit of righteousness till the Jordan.
Where is this corrupted spirit in scripture?
If you do not see the corrupted spirit in Scripture then reject the need for Jesus. Jesus said he chose to speak as he does to hide the truth from some. It is my hope you are not one he is hiding the truth from.The spirit is not physically water even though Jesus referred to it as water. He worded his argument esoterically because he expects those who truly want what he has to offer to know but not those who are not sincere.
You need to look at the things of God and not men.
I hope my rebuke is gentle but this is an issue that is critical to the gospel as one needs to realize they have a need to get a new spirit. Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 18:31 and Ezekiel 36:26.
Hi KW,
You rebuke on the basis of your idea for which even you have found no true scriptural support??Hmmm
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 15 2010,08:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2010,03:36) Hi KW,
Jesus was of Mary, a true son of man.
Born into our lowly estate[jb25]he was tempted in all ways as we are but became an overcomer.[rev3.21]
He was not anointed with the Spirit of righteousness till the Jordan.
Where is this corrupted spirit in scripture?
If you do not see the corrupted spirit in Scripture then reject the need for Jesus. Jesus said he chose to speak as he does to hide the truth from some. It is my hope you are not one he is hiding the truth from.The spirit is not physically water even though Jesus referred to it as water. He worded his argument esoterically because he expects those who truly want what he has to offer to know but not those who are not sincere.
You need to look at the things of God and not men.
I hope my rebuke is gentle but this is an issue that is critical to the gospel as one needs to realize they have a need to get a new spirit. Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 18:31 and Ezekiel 36:26.
Hi KW,
When were you personally shown what is not in scripture?
Why are we blind if we do not see it there either?
How is reliance on scripture insincerity?
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