Who is babylon the great?

[Texas]

Who is BABYLON THE GREAT?
Who causes her destruction? How?

I have to tell you all, that, this subject has been driving me to distraction! While I sat thinking about it last night I'd made up my mind to just forget this subject, because it was so complicated, but while I sat there, scriptures that I'd been overlooking came flooding into my mind.

I have to tell you all, I'm bowing to the time prophecy that fits so well with the year 1914! My belief, though, is, it fits better with Matthew 24:6 than verse seven. Now, as to that time prophecy; it is a subect all by itself alone, to be dealt with at another time. All I will do now is cite the scriptures in Daniel and Ezekiel that makes reference to it. {Daniel 4:4—37} {Ezekiel 21:26—27}

Don't forget, it {Matthew 24:6} received first mention, and was first in time, so that had to be the one that the time prophecy landed on. Now, in that scripture, did Jesus tell us that those Wars and rumors of Wars would lead into a great tribulation? No! He didn't did he?

He said, in that scripture, as you know: “You are going to hear of Wars and reports of Wars; see that you are not terrified. For those things must take place, but the end is not yet.” Now if he was in kingdom power when he said that, why might he have said that? Now, the scriptures that I'm about to point out to you are the ones that came into my mind last night as I sat thinking about it! Before I do that though, we might reason on this scripture at Matthew 24:6, which, as you know, says: “You are going to hear of Wars and rumors of Wars, see that you are not terrified, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.”

Now, isn't it true that there was a tribulation of A SORT associated with these Wars of our Century? Consider the fact that there was over one hundred Million laid in their Graves because of those two Wars, consider also the fact that two Japanese Cities were desecrated by those two Atomic Bombs that was dropped on them, and also consider, that there are still Wars going on around our Globe right at this present moment
in time, and the 'end is STILL 'NOT YET', as Jesus predicted! Isn't it true, that was we to be in the great tribulation at that time, that by now, the end would have, been upon us?

Now, there appears to be somewhat of a time delay, between the actual arrival of the Christ in Kingdom Power, and the time that he actually comes to fight the War of the great day of God the Almighty Can you all see that? Now, why do you suppose that, that time delay would exist at all?

I do believe that I can explain the reason for that time delay, as I will now go on to show.

Now, look closely at Matthew 25:31, where it says this: “When the Son of Man arrives in his Glory, and all the angels with him, then he will SIT DOWN on his glorious throne” {Not as yet ACTIVELY RULING!} … Note now the expression SIT DOWN, because that expression has real meaning for us. That meaning is focused on by the Prophet Daniel, who made the following statement about the arrival of the Christ in Kingdom Power. That statement was, as you already know, was this: “And during that time Michael will STAND UP the great Prince who is standing in behalf of the Sons of your people. And, {when that does occur} … “And there will certainly occur a TIME OF DISTRESS such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a Nation until that time” …That's enough to draw out my point! Now, notice the words STAND UP! So when the Christ first arrived on the scene, he sat down at the right hand of his Father, and from there was to wait until these words of his Father was fulfilled, {That would cause him to STAND UP} Those words was: …:Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” {Acts 2:34,35}

Now, that is what Jesus did when he first arrived on the scene, he had to wait for something from his Father! What was that? He had to wait for the command: “The rod of your strength, Jehovah will send out of Zion, {saying} “Go SUBDUING IN THE MIDST OF YOUR ENEMIES.” So, the reason for the seeming time delay, was he had to wait for the command from Jehovah to “Go Subduing in the midst of your enemies.”These last three scriptures was the ones to come to my mind last night as I sat thinking about it.

Now, comes into play the scripture at Matthew 24:29-31 — That will be the time period that Jesus, who was seated at his Fathers right hand, will STAND UP in Angelic form, as Michael the Archangel and THAT is when the great tribulation will break out all over this earth! {Daniel 12:1} Of course that will eventually lead into the War of the great day of God the Almighty, at Armageddon! {Revelation 16:14—16} But that will be the time period that must be 'cut short' for the sake of the Chosen ones, still alive on the earth at that time. {Matthew 24:21,22} For that is the time period that the final sealing of his anointed Brothers will be done, as well as the separating work between the Sheep and the Goats, which is done during the 'time of the Harvest', or 'conclusion of the system of things'. {Revelation 7:1–3} {Matthew 13:30,39; 25:31–46}

As I have already pointed out, no one, as yet has actully seen any of the things mentioned in Matthew 24:29–31 fulfilled. They remain yet to be fulfilled. That should show us that, that, time delay is still in evidence. The Christ, as yet, has to take ACTIVE RULING AUTHORITY! That means, of necessity, that, that foretold War in heaven has not, as yet taken place. That satan the devil, and his demons, has not, as yet been ousted from the heavenly Spirit realm. We know that because no one, has actually seen 'the sign of the Son of Man, in heaven!' No one has seen the Christ, “coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory!” No on has heard, “ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH BEATING THEMSELVES IN LAMAMENTATION” {Because of seeing and hearing those things} Those things are still, yet future! So, the Christ, as yet, has not heard the command from his Father, to; “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.” Only when that command is given, will the {War in heaven break out, when satan is thrown down to this earth, when the harvest season begings, when those of the High-Calling are gathered, when the separating of the sheep and the goats begins, when the persecution of his anointed Brothers begins} Revelation 12:7–13 {Matthew 24:9} break out. Only then will that persecution of the anointed class, scattered all over this earth, begin, and it begins because satan is thrown down in a state of great anger. That anger causes him to make war with the remaing ones of the seed of the Woman. {Revelation 12:12,17} {Matthew 24:9} No one, as yet, has observed a World-Wide persecution of the anointed Brothers of Christ, the 'remaining ones of the seed of the Woman.' those ones who observe the commandments of God, and have the work of bearing witness, to Jesus.' {Revelation 12:17} {Matthew 24:31} Those things are all, yet future! When they do occur though, and satan and his demons are thrown down to this earth, that will mean for this earth, “WOE FOR THE EARTH AND FOR THE SEA {OF PEOPLE} for the devil has come down to you, having great anger, KNOWING he has a short period of time.” {Revelation 20:1–3} When that finally is accomplished, then will begin the foretold persecution and killing of the anointed Brothers of Christ, still remaining on this earth, at that time. {Matthew 24:9″ {Revelation 12:17}

At some point in time, no one could say exactly at what precise moment, during this period, that will experience this 'WOE FOR THE EARTH', BABYLON THE GREAT WILL FALL! That in turn will mark the fulfillment of two scripures that came to mind while typing out this Bible subect. Those scriptures, tell us, this: “And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred, and A GREAT EARTHQUAKE occurred such as had n
ot occurred since men came to be on the earth, SO EXTENSIVE AN EARTHQUAKE, SO GREAT.” {Revelation 16:18–21} Now, this is not a literal earthquake, but is a figurative one, that lines up with what is written at Haggai 2:7 which, in turn, tells us: “And I will ROCK ALL THE NATIONS, and the desirable things of all the Nations must come in; and I will fill this house with glory, Jehovah of armies has said.” So, when the entire empire of false religion {BABYLON THE GREAT} on this earth, falls, that large scale event will ROCK this earth from end to end! This is so, because it is Jehovah who has turned the wild beast and the Ten Horns, against their long time lover, the Woman, riding on the back of the wild Beast. {Revelation 17:1–8–16–18} This will be the time that Ezekiels prophecy will see fulfillment, and that prophecy tells us, this: “And I will call forth against him throughout all my mountanous region, a sword, is the utterance of the sovereign Lord Jehovah, against his own brother the sword of each one will come to be.” {Ezekiel 21–23}

Now, this is the time period that will see the catastrophic time of world trouble, as foretold by the prophet Daniel, as foretold by the Christ, and this is the time period that would have to be 'cut short' because of fear of the deaths of every last surviving member of the anointed Brothers of the Christ! We must remember, that these ones are the ones who have not received the mark on their right hand or on their foreheads. {{Revelation 12:17; 13:16,17;20:4} These ones would not be able to buy the necessary food-stuffs to keep them alive. More than that, though, if satan was given enough time, in the state of anger he is in, when thrown down to this earth, he would have every last surviving member of these anointed brothers of Christ, put to death. So, we can be assured, for those reasons, there are ample reasons for believing 'those days to be 'cut short,' and they will be, we can believe that! {Matthew 24:21,22} Daniel 12:1}

In summary, then, quoting from the Revelation account, speaking about the final arrival of the Christ in that kingdom, actively operative in kingdom power, we read, IN CONTEXT, these words: “And War broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan who is misdleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, say: “NOW HAVE COME TO PASS the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and THE AUTHORITY OF HIS CHRIST BECAUSE THE ACCUSER OF OUR BROTHERS HAS BEEN HURLED DOWN, who accuses them day and night before our God!” {Revelation 12: 7–13] {Now who does that say, had the authority to throw Satan down?} It said, the Christ, now didn't it? That, then, means, that Michael the Archangel was Christ Jesus! No one, in a sound mind, would argue othwerwise. Only those who read those verses of scripture OUT OF CONTEXT, will believe otherwise! Now, we know from a reading of Matthew 24:29-31 that {All of the nations have not, as yet seen 'the sign of the Son of Man in heaven', nor have they, seen him 'coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.' Nor have they heard, ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH BEATING THEMSELVES IN LAMENTATION, because of seeing and hearing all of those things} So, that, of necessity means, that the Christ has not yet been issued that order, to “GO SUBDUING IN THE MIDST OF YOUR ENEMIES!” So, we are all now, still wating for all of those things to come to pass, is that not correct reasoning? This ends my discussion on, “Who is Babylon the great?

Allow me now, to, perhaps deviate from the subject, {just a littl} at hand and throw out some more reasoning of mine. That reasoning has to do with what was stated at Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man arrives in his glory, he will SIT DOWN'” {Showing he is not actually actively operative in kingdom power as yet.} It is only when he STANDS UP that he becomes actively operative, and he does not become active as ruling king until he receives the command from his Father, to 'go Subduing!' Now, since there was a time delay from the moment he SAT DOWN until he STOOD UP; what was he doing in the meantime? Now since that scripture tells us that “All of the Nations would be gathered before him”, is it entirely possible that he was mentally choosing the last of his anointed Brothers, for the final sealing work, {Revelation 7:2,3} while also, at the same time, choosing the ones who would constitute the sheep-like ones, and the goats that would be eventually separated to his right hand and left hand? {Matthew 24:31; 25:31-46} Now, with that in mind, could he not have informed all of the angels he sends out in the time of the Harvest, which of both classes he has chosen, so that they would know exactly who to seal for the High Calling of God, and exactly who all of the sheeplike ones was? Who exactly that goats were? Now, I say this because I don't believe that Jesus would just sit idly by, and do nothing, until he received that command from his Father, to “GO!” I say that because of what Jesus himself said about WORKING! “My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.” {John 5:17} So, during that time delay, he had to be doing something, according to his own words!
Now, this particular time period will be a very difficult or impossible time to live for those who really do 'Worship the Father in Spirit and in truth,' while at the same time circumstances will look better for those ones, like the World's Christains today, who have received the mark upon their foreheads and hands, actively approving of and supporting the Governmental Authorities, thereby constituting themselves devil worshippers, by so doing! {John4:23,24}

The Apostle John in the Revelation account will show us all, why it will be so difficult for the true Christains to live througth this time period, for he tells us: “”And it puts under compulsion, all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, and that NOBODY might be able to buy or sell EXCEPT a person having a mark, the name of the Wild Beast, or the number of its name.” None of the true followers of the Christ will display that mark, because they refuse to be devil worshippers, and for that reason will not be able to buy or sell; that, of course, would threaten them with starvation! I would imagine that is one of the reasons 'those days are cut short!' That would also bring great persecution on them, in which some of them would be killed, as Jesus foretold! {Matthew 24:9},

Now, ask yourselves, 'what would cause a catastrophic event such as the like foretold by Daniel, and Christ Jesus?' {Daniel 12:1} {Matthew 24:21,22} Who, in actuality, was the one who caused this time of great peril to begin, and what did this one do, that would bring it about?

Firstly, I would like to mention, that I believe that it would be the fall of 'BABYLON THE GREAT', that would trigger this time of World trouble! The time, “when every mans sword will come to be against his own Brother.” {Ezekiel 38: -21–23} I also believe that BABYLON THE GREAT is the empire of false religion that encompasses this earth at this time. Now, for those who do not agree with that, let them read Chaper 18 of the account in Revelation. They will learn that this entire World is 'weeping and beating themselves in grief' while 'standing at a distance because of fear of their torment.' But nowhere in that account is it spoken about any of the mainline Religions of this World, their leaders, or their followers doing that; and the reason they receive no mention is because, they th
emselves, as a body, Worldwide constitute BABYLON THE GREAT! So, quite naturally they would recieve no mention. Only as BABYLON THE GREAT!

It should also be noticed in that Chapter, something stated by the Apostle John that aids us in identifying just who this Whore is that is seated on the back of the Beast. {Revelation 17:3—6}
Notice first, that this Woman, … 'was drunk with the Blood of the Holy ones and with the Blood of the witnesses of Jesus.' Again John tells us at Chapter 18:24, this: “Yes, in her was found the Blood of Prophets and of Holy ones and of ALL THOSE slaughtered on the earth.” So, this Woman on the back of the Beast, is a long time enemy of Jehovah God and his Son, Christ Jesus, but a long time friend of the Political Governments of this World. Jesus himself aids us in understanding more fully just whom this Woman represents, for he stated: “For this reason, here I am sending forth to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and impale, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from City to City; that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah whom you murdered between the santuary and the Alter.” {Matthew 24:9}

Now, what shows that Christendom's Clergy have been riding on the back of this Beast? Where was they during the two Bloody Wars fought in our Century? They were blessing the Guns, the Tanks, the Aircraft, and all of the other weaponry used to slaughter their own Brothers and Sisters, and that same blessing was on all of the Soldiers sent out to wage war, making them all feel as though they was doing the will of God, when, in actuality, they was doing the will of satan the devil. That is why they are responsible 'for all of the righteous Blood spilled on this earth.'

Yes! They, the Political Powers of this demon-ruled World, as well as all of the mainline Religions, and their followers, have incurred heavy Blood-Guilt upon themselves! Jehovah will exact payment for that Blood-Guilt during his War, fought by the Christ, and all of the Angels, during the Day when Jehovah will finally display his great anger in the War of THE GREAT DAY OF GOD THE ALMIGHTY, at Armageddon!! {Matthew 4:8,9} {Luke 4: 5–8} {Revelation 13:1,2} {Daniel 7:2–7–17} {Revelation 14:10,19–15:1,7–16:1, 14-16 —- 19}

Very soon now, this Centuries long love affair between all of the Religions of this entire World, and the Political Powers will come to an abrupt end, and this Beast of which they are riding on the back of, will turn on them, like a pack of wild hungry Wolves and strip them of their great fortunes, and totally destroy them! With what event will this destruction come, you may ask?

First, this statement is made about this loss of their great fortunes: … “Too bad too bad — the great City, clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, and richly adorned with Gold ornament and precious stone and pearl, because in one hour such great riches have been devastated.” What, though has caused this to occur? The Apostle John will explain to us just how and why this will occur, for, he stated in Revelation 17:16,17 this: “And the Ten Horns that you saw, and the wild Beast, these will hate the Harlot and will make her devastasted and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire. Now why, all of a sudden has this hatred come to the fore? John goes on to explain that! “For God put it into their hearts, to carry out his one thought, even to carry out {their} one thought by giving their kingdom to the Wild Beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.” So, it is Jehovah who has turned one of these lovers against the another! That is quite clear!

So,at some point in time, perhaps before too long, Jehovah will himself turn both the Ten Horns and this Wild Beast against this false Religious empire on this earth, and he will maneauver these Political entities to do his will and bring this great religious empire to complete ruin!

Now, can anyone tell exactly when all of this is going to occur?
We know that, no one knew the exact 'day and hour' for massive divine intervention to occur, for that day was to come as 'a thief in the night' when it was least expected. {Matthew 24:36,44} {Luke 12:40} {2Peter 3:10} Not even Jesus knew when that was going to happen, for he told us that himself!

I do, though, believe that we have an approximation of that great event; and I also believe that, that was highlited for us, at Matthew 24:29–31- That scripture is something that has not occured as yet, as will be seen, after I cite it. It says there: “

“Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the Sun will be darkened, and the Moon will not give its light, and the Stars will fall from heaven, and the Powers of the heavens will be shaken. And THEN the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH WILL BEAT THEMSELVES IN LAMENTATION, and they WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY. {Now the time of the Harvest begins, or the conclusion of the system of things} {Matthew 13:30,39} for it goes on to tell us: “And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and THEY will gather his Chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.”

You may ask at this point, “Why am I being so repititious?” Too drive home my points, for repitition is a great teacher. It thorougly inculcates into the minds of those being taught what is being taught so, that, they will not, in a hurry, forget what they have been taught! I sincerely hope that, that will be true in this case./

Now, whenever in History has anyone ever seen the things described here? When have we ever seen the 'Sun and the Moon' not shedding any light? When, have we ever seen the 'Stars falling from the heavens'? When has anyone ever seen 'the sign of the Son of Man in heaven'? When, in our living memory, have we seen, or rather heard, “ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH BEATING THEMSELVES IN LAMENTATION” over these very things? When have we ever seen the 'Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory'? Now, don't forget, too, that Matthew 24:29 told us that all of this would occur “AFTER THE TRIBULATIONS OF THOSE DAYS.” In other words, after the time of trouble caused by World War 1 and World War 2! Those was days of a type of tribulation, but not the cataclysmic events foretold by Daniel and Jesus, not even close!

Now, since this is the time period for the cataclysmic time of trouble foretold by Daniel and Jesus, and since this is the time period that had to be 'cut short', then this cataclysmic time of the World's greatest trouble, had to be going on in the time of the harvest, or at the conclusion of the system of things! That is my take on this matter! Everyone else may believe anything they wish about that! They are free to do that!

Now, for those who do not believe that the occurances from 1914 and forward was not a type of tribulation, I'm thinking, that they would have quickly changed their minds was they to have been in the middle of Hiroshima, or Nagasaski when those two Atomic Bombs was going off, or on the Battle-fields with the Soldiers on whatever side. They would have believed quite differently at those times. That would have made believers out of them all in a hurry!

Now, in the time of the end it will be a very easy matter to distinguish between the true followers of the Christ and the imitation Christian's! This will be the time period when all of the false Christians, all the haughty ones, will be all knocked off of their self-exalted thrones, and humbled and humiliated beyond belief. It is absolutely crucial that all read the following two Chapter
s and verses of scripture! {Isaiah 2:10–22} {Revelation 6: 15–17}

Jesus showed the difference that would distinguish his true followers, in the time of the end, from those members that frequented BABYLON THE GREAT! He told us this: “Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the Sun in the kingom of their Father.” Let him who has ears, listen.:

Have you all been listening? These righteous ones have not received the mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that is why they are shining as brightly as the Sun. So, not very difficult to identify the true from the false in the time of the end. {Matthew 13:43}

One last final power-point to make! Many times the Watchtower society has tried to explain the words of Jesus at Matthew 24:33,34 which tells us this: “Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. Truly I say to you That THIS GENERATION will by no means pass away until all these thingss are fulfilled.” Now, quite clearly, the generation that Jesus had in mind when he made that statement, was the generation that was still living during the Harvest Season, or conclusion of the system of things.” They would be the ones to see all things fulfilled!

We have seen from this writing that BABYLON THE GREAT is the empire of false religion that encompasses and permeats this entire inhabited earth.
We have also seen that it is Jehovah God who causes her destruction by turning her long time lovers against her. So ends the devils means for 'misleading the entire inhabited earth.' {Revelation 12:9} Texas!

[NickHassan]

Hi texas,
Jesus is not the archangel Michael.
Sounds like familar JW logic to me.

[Texas]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2009,08:35)

Hi texas, Jesus is not the archangel Michael. Sounds like familar JW logic to me.

Nick!

Sorry Nick, I'll have to take the Bibles word for that, because it says, that he is! So, Nick, it really is Bible logic,not JW logic at all! But, then, you do not know much about the Bible, so I expect logic like yours! Texas!

[NickHassan]

Hi texas,
Where?

[Cindy]

Texas

Why is it so important to you to show Jesus and Michael are one and the same?
What if they are, and what if they are not?
You keep bringing that up, that only diverts from the subject you want to talk about.

Georg

[Texas]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2009,10:34)

Hi texas, Where?

Nick!
Read Revelation 12:7-13 IN CONTEXT and you will see Where!
Notice! I said, read that IN CONTEXT? We both know, that if you read it OUT OF CONTEXT you can make it say exactly WHAT YOU WANT! Texas!

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ May 01 2009,01:50)

Texas Why is it so important to you to show Jesus and Michael are one and the same? What if they are, and what if they are not? You keep bringing that up, that only diverts from the subject you want to talk about. Georg

Cindy!
Simply to establish the truth of the matter, is why it matters! But you are correct, arguing back and forth about it does detract from the subject at hand. Texas

[NickHassan]

Hi texas,
You have no written proof.
So why not move on?

[Cindy]

Texas

You have to much in your article, to even begin to reply; why not mention specific points, kind of break it down some.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Quote (Texas @ May 01 2009,06:48)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2009,10:34) Hi texas, Where? Nick! Read Revelation 12:7-13 IN CONTEXT and you will see Where! Notice! I said, read that IN CONTEXT? We both know, that if you read it OUT OF CONTEXT you can make it say exactly WHAT YOU WANT! Texas!

Hi Texas,
Rev12 7-13 in context.
” 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”

So Michael leads the heavenly war, overcoming and expulsion of the unfaithful angels from heaven. Why would it surprise you that one of the chief princes is given this role?

He is under the authority of God and His Christ just as we are. No need for King Jesus do dirty his hands but just give the orders and they are obeyed. Angels are spirits who serve greater authority. [heb1]

[Cindy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2009,06:43)

Hi Texas, Rev12 7-13 in context. ” 3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

And Nick

Explain to me exactly what this scripture means.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
Lets hear your view first.

[Cindy]

Nickodemus

In other words, you don't know.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi georg,
Why should you be allowed to bully us?

[Cindy]

Nick

Am I bulling you, or are you annoyed with me correcting your foolish replies?
I will tell you what the scripture means.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.  

The red dragon is Satan, showing he is the power behind all worldly kingdoms, the seven heads represent the seven empires, world ruling governments, of the bible. The ten horns are all the kings of all seven empires. The seven crowns, one for each empire, symbolize the power they had to rule.
There are two more beasts in Revelation with seven heads, Rev. 13:1, and Rev. 17:3, but if you look real close, the only thing they have in common are the seven heads.

I can't wait to see if your going to stir the pot, or make pretzels.

Georg

[Texas]

GEORG!
You said:  “The ten horns are all the kings of all seven empires.” The Ten Horns associated with the wild Beast in the Revelation account, were all of the Kings of this World who existed contemporary with the wild Beast. The Wild Beast that John was making reference to didn't come on the scene until our Century, because it took the form of the League first, and the United Nations afterwards, hower; you may be half right in your reasoning, because those Ten might well picture, 'all the Kings of the seven Empires.' Thanks Georg, that was a nice tid-bit of information. Texas

[Cindy]

Texas

Would you like to give us a little tidbit of information on the other two seven headed beasts, Rev. 13:1, and Rev. 17:3?

Georg

[david]

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I'd made up my mind to just forget this subject, because it was so complicated

–texas.

I don't find this subject complicated.

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Isn't it true, that was we to be in the great tribulation at that time, that by now, the end would have, been upon us?

I'm not certain how you come to that conclusion. As you yourself said, it was just “a beginning of pangs of distress.” The end “is not yet.”

As a side note, Texas, as long as you continue to insert 'Jesus is Michael' into your statements, no one else is going to hear anything else you say.

[Author]

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