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Quote (942767 @ Nov. 05 2006,21:54) Hi Krench: I also feel that the KJV is over-all the best translation, but on occasion such as this one, I believe that this is a mis-translation. I am not a Greek scholar, and so, I have to rely on the english translations that those who do know Greek have given us. The saints are the whole body of Christ. That is my view.
I have found that Young's Literal Translation is reliable.
Then who are the 144000?Hi Krench:
My understanding is that the 144,000 are those who will be in authority in the church in this last day through whom the Lord will bring the church to maturity. I have posted relative to this under the Jehovah Witness Church thread. If you would like to read what I said.
They, the 144,000, as well as those under their authority are all saints of the Most High God. The whole body of Christ are saints.
I believe Isaiah 1:18 did a good job of giving us some scriptures as to who is considered a saint.
Quote And I never said it was “in” you. And when Jesus said the the kingdom was in the midst or “in” as some translators render it, the pharisees and scribes, he meant that the king of that kingdom was in their midst, as he was that king. I disagree David, It means in you and in me, IN ALL
ECC 12:7 describes it
“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”If we’re talking about spirit, then yes, spirit is in us. But God’s kingdom (a government) is not. It was not in the wicked pharisees who Jesus was speaking to when he said those misunderstood words. And it is not in us. It is a government. Scripture shows it to be a government. But Christ as king was in their midst, so it could be said that the kingdom sas among them or in their midst.
Remember, Jesus said those words to the scribes and pharisees whom he later said would have trouble fleeing from the judgement of gehenna. Clearly, Jesus wasn’t saying that his government was “in” those people.Quote (942767 @ Nov. 06 2006,00:23) Hi Krench: My understanding is that the 144,000 are those who will be in authority in the church in this last day through whom the Lord will bring the church to maturity. I have posted relative to this under the Jehovah Witness Church thread. If you would like to read what I said.
They, the 144,000, as well as those under their authority are all saints of the Most High God. The whole body of Christ are saints.
I believe Isaiah 1:18 did a good job of giving us some scriptures as to who is considered a saint.
Well ok, Again, “who are the people of the saints?Are you a saint? Do you give Jesus Christ all of your life? How about sports do you give time to sports rather then serve the poor?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.
**”if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments”. You are saved!! But are you a saint?
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet?
**For me to be a saint what do I lack?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
***OH! But IF you want to be PERFECT (spirit being, saint) then sell all that you have, give it all to the poor, then you will have treasure in heaven, If you follow Jesus. (Rev. chapter 14)
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions.
Mat 6:31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
**Do you work in the world for your daily bread?
Mat 6:32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Do you have the faith of a saint?
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Let me say it this way are you of the elect? Have you been choosen before the foundation of the world?
Rom 8:30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
**The elect, those called before they were born, those who give their whole life to the glory of God. Next time you are doing anything, ask what glory is God getting out of this?
**When you gave your life to Jesus then you no longer should have a life of your own.
**No I won't burn but I'm no saint are you?
Hi kenrch,
We do not apply the catholic definition of a humanly perfect “saint” to scripture.
Saints in scripture are those clean in God's eyes.
They do not see themselves as perfect being very aware of their faults and inadequacies.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 06 2006,21:56) Hi kenrch,
We do not apply the catholic definition of a humanly perfect “saint” to scripture.
Saints in scripture are those clean in God's eyes.
They do not see themselves as perfect being very aware of their faults and inadequacies.
Nick I take it you believe you are a saint, you may very well be but I doubt it.Let me say it this way are you of the elect? Have you been choosen before the foundation of the world?
What are your “works”? Is Jesus your whole life? Have you been to another country, lived there and preached the gospel as well as feed and take care of the poor?
There won't be any unclean thing in the kingdom of God. If you are clean it just means you are under the new covenant and are saved from the second death.
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
OH! But IF you want to be PERFECT (spirit being, saint) then sell all that you have, give it all to the poor, then you will have treasure in heaven, If you follow Jesus. ( Rev. chapter 14)
Have you sold everything, given it to the poor and then pick up the cross. The young rich ruler didn't so he would never be a saint. Has God made the narrow path wider for us but not the young rich ruler who kept the commandments and (according to scripture) will enter into life.
Do you really believe you are a saint?
If you think you are then tell me “who are your people”?
Hi Krench:
I have answered your questions relative to “who are the people of the saints” by showing you that this was a mistranslation, and I showed you that the whole body of Christ are considered saints.
And so, yes, I am a saint because I have been born again and I am striving to obey God by striving to obey the commandments of my Lord Jesus, and when I make a mistake and I do make them, I ask for forgiveness and the blood of my Lord Jesus cleanses me from all unrighteousness. If I do something that may offend anyone, I make it right with them also. I am a saint because the word of God says that I am because of what God has done for me through our Lord Jesus.
I believe the word of God, Krench, do you? Being a saint does not mean that I have some kind of halo about my head or that I have some kind of special feeling. It is because God says that I am when I am submitted to Him through my Lord Jesus, and because he lives, I can face tomorrow.
Hi 94,
You say
“I have found that Young's Literal Translation is reliable. “
Yes, I agree it is good, but it really only helps the understanding of the kjv being also based on the same manuscripts, the textus receptus.Nick:
I said that I believe that the KJV is the best over-all translation of the bible, but I have found that on occasions such as this I need to refer to another translation in order to come up with the meaning of the scripture. In this case, the KJV translation “people of the saints” does not make sense and as we see it has caused confusion. We belong the Most High God not to the people.
I owe those Hebrew and Greek scholars a debt of gratitude for the work they have done in translating from the original texts. I know that this was not an easy task.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 07 2006,02:09) Hi Krench: I have answered your questions relative to “who are the people of the saints” by showing you that this was a mistranslation, and I showed you that the whole body of Christ are considered saints.
And so, yes, I am a saint because I have been born again and I am striving to obey God by striving to obey the commandments of my Lord Jesus, and when I make a mistake and I do make them, I ask for forgiveness and the blood of my Lord Jesus cleanses me from all unrighteousness. If I do something that may offend anyone, I make it right with them also. I am a saint because the word of God says that I am because of what God has done for me through our Lord Jesus.
I believe the word of God, Krench, do you? Being a saint does not mean that I have some kind of halo about my head or that I have some kind of special feeling. It is because God says that I am when I am submitted to Him through my Lord Jesus, and because he lives, I can face tomorrow.
Hey if you are a saint the more power to you
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
OH! But IF you want to be PERFECT (spirit being, saint) then sell all that you have, give it all to the poor, then you will have treasure in heaven, If you follow Jesus. ( Rev. chapter 14)
Have you sold everything, given it to the poor and then pick up the cross. The young rich ruler didn't so he would never be a saint. Has God made the narrow path wider for us but not the young rich ruler who kept the commandments and (according to scripture) will enter into life.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 07 2006,01:04) Hi kenrch,
All we have to find and do is the will of God.
“My yoke is easy and my burden light”
And what is His will?Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: “and come, follow me”.
Have you done what Jesus commanded in the above scripture? 942? Nick? Anyone?
The young rich ruler will enter into life because he kept the commandments. But he wouldn't give Jesus everything so he was unable to be a ruler (perfect, spirit, saint) in the new kingdom and that's what a saint is a ruler in the new kingdom. Rev. chapter 14
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 07 2006,01:04) Hi kenrch,
All we have to find and do is the will of God.
“My yoke is easy and my burden light”
Are you of the elect? Are you one of the 144k? Have you followed the rules given to the young rich ruler?Hi Krench:
I have already told you why I am a saint but whether or not I am one of the 144K or maybe even one on the 2 witnesses, I don't know, but whatever I am I am by the grace of God, and not because I obeyed the Law of Moses without sin. Jesus did that for us. As I said I am striving to obey him but I make mistakes. It is the blood of my Lord Jesus that washes my sins away, and keeps me in the state of holiness. Without his sacrifice, neither I or you or the rich man or any of humanity could be considered a saint.
Hi kenrch,
You ask
“And what is His will?”
You should ask Him daily as He has a special role for you to undertake in Christ.Quote (942767 @ Nov. 07 2006,04:51) Hi Krench: I have already told you why I am a saint but whether or not I am one of the 144K or maybe even one on the 2 witnesses, I don't know, but whatever I am I am by the grace of God, and not because I obeyed the Law of Moses without sin. Jesus did that for us. As I said I am striving to obey him but I make mistakes. It is the blood of my Lord Jesus that washes my sins away, and keeps me in the state of holiness. Without his sacrifice, neither I or you or the rich man or any of humanity could be considered a saint.
The young rich ruler didn't make a saint. He couldn't give everything to Jesus. That's what it takes “everything” not just an hour every Sunday and a few hours on the net.Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: “and come, follow me”.
Have you done what Jesus asked the young rich ruler to do?
If you haven't then “according to scripture” you are not a saint. In fact if you eat drink and sleep Jesus you won't even think about sex.
I have not given my “whole life” to Christ. I enjoy a good football game or even a movie. Am I doing wrong? No because I'm not called to be a priest or king those people were chosen before the foundation of the world. Just try to give Jesus everything “all the time” I have and lasted six months. How long have you lasted?
Yes it is the blood of the Lamb that allows us to enter life just as the young rich ruler.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 07 2006,06:41) Hi kenrch,
You ask
“And what is His will?”
You should ask Him daily as He has a special role for you to undertake in Christ.
Nick I asked and gave scriptural answers. His will for His saints are to sell everything give it to the poor pick up your cross and follow Jesus just like the 144k in Revelation chapter 14.
I'm not saying you or anyone else is not a saint but according to scripture I only know I'm not of the elect. My question which you never did answer is are you of the elect and the 144k? If you are a saint then the answer is yes.Because I'm not of the elect doesn't mean that I am unable to instruct some people in the word. I'm sure that there will be many under the Saints who will work with the 144k.
The servant is the greatest among you. Do you serve Jesus all the time (every minute of the day) with your whole body mind and soul? If you do then it is not you that lives but Jesus.
Hi Kenrch,
Does Christ live in you and work through you as a submitted vessel?
He does through the sons of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 07 2006,17:22) Hi Kenrch,
Does Christ live in you and work through you as a submitted vessel?
He does through the sons of God.
Nick I'm as much a son of God as anyone on earth but that doesn't mean I'm a saint!Doesn't seem like you are going to answer any of my questions Again! I'll just take you as saying no you are not a saint since you won't say you are.
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