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Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 30 2009,21:39) Hey Stu: Everything in your brain/mind that you have garnered and put away in your memory has happened by choosing to accept the information or reject the information as it came your way. If you did not personally experience the information it is all mythical! All information that is not first hand experienced by an individual leaves the possibility of un-truth, error, out right lies, mis-communication, mis-understanding, mis-perception etc.! On every level we choose what we believe to be truth. All of it. If Jesus didn't live or do the things written then probably Washington didn't cross the delaware and Columbus didn't discover America and so on. Truth is what you decide is truth for you, unless it is a first hand experience. If one did decides to follow Jesus the myth and he ruled his life by believing that whatever you sow in life that is what you will reap and do unto others as you would have them do for you, things would be a bit better in this world. Never condemning anyone for anything they do, that doesn't affect your space or somebody elses, is rather peaceful. Believing you are a perfect creation with a loving heart does tend to make one feel better and help others. Knowing that love is creative and positive and ever moving up and creating more of itself and knowing that hate, anger, stress, lies and deceptions do bring down and kill and smother life. Religion mixes the two by saying God loves you but watch out on a bad day he might wipe out your entire neighborhood! One will move on eternally one will destroy itself. Whether it is truth or myth we don't know. Whether it would be a better way to live we probably agree. Bless you, TK
Even first hand experiences can result in different truths since it depends how the individual perceives them.To one person it might be the tragic destruction of ancient woodland, to another it might be a welcome development meaning employment for them.
There is however, I think, a great pressure upon the individual to at least partially confirm their beliefs to the herd surrounding them. It doesn't do generally to be too individual or non conformist. Hence the contagious effect of religion – and other ideologies too.
If we got past the bit about feeling it necessary to resort to tribal warfare over religious disagreements – some of it's actually pretty decent sensible rules to live by and religion arguably can have a place in a managed society as one way of maintaining control and improving the overall experience of existing within that society.
After all a policeman who is everywhere all the time knowing everything there is to know who can judge your existence for all time – despite being a little tricky to directly perceive – has some advantages over expensive and fallible human agents…
If truth mattered to the civilisation of today, we wouldn't be squandering our resources so stupidly.
TK I agree that Truth is in the eye of the perceiver, but I do believe in forensic science. One does not have to have been present at historical events to establish the facts of them to a reasonable level of confidence. There is enough evidence for anyone to reasonably conclude that Julius Caesar, Columbus and Charles Darwin actually existed. The evidence for Jesus's existence is not enough to reasonably establish him as historical, although many think the circumstantial evidence makes quite a good case, for example the lengths to which the gospel writers appear to have invented alibis for the historical Jesus. As for alleged miracles and resurrection, there is so much that counters those as reasonable, including the motive exemplified by other humans inventing god-myths for all sorts of reasons, and the fact that people do not walk on water or walk again after death, that it is entirely reasonable to reject it. If you want to make a special case for Jesus then perhaps you can show us your special evidence.
Anyway, it doesn't actually matter to me whether Washington crossed the Delaware or not. Why should it matter to you whether Jesus existed or not?
I think the basic premise of christianity is an abomination. You need to accept a human sacrifice in order to achieve some goal in relation to yet another god, one of tens of thousands invented by humans over the millennia. Why not adopt a god that does not require a human sacrifice? Wouldn't that be even more peaceful? I also thing it is abominable that a religion might suggest that natural disasters have any intent behind them.
This view of the universe, which I suppose I am caricaturing to some extent, to me is ugly. As soon as you realise that all god myths that make humans the central feature of the universe, subjects of divine pleasure and displeasure, are egocentric fictions and a poor description of what we observe, I think the true beauty of our situation can be realised. Like Truth, Beauty is also beheld by the beholder, but for me it can only be beautiful if it does not conceal from me a deception, which is necessarily true if the universe is the work of a creator with intent.
Stuart
Stu: Christianity, Christian,and Religion are terms that are so misused and distorted by the masses that when I read them it disgusts me! I had my fill of religion as a young boy forced to go to a denominational church as long as I lived at home. I saw the hypocrisy and heard the distorted truth as they presented it. I could not be a part of that but I had a yearning inside to know if God was so fickle!
The Bible has been translated with prejudice and powerful influence by church hierarchy for thousands of years. Of the hundreds of denominations that have found fault with one group and split off to start another group the truth gets diluted and altered once again.
As I wondered about God and the things I heard from the religious teachers they did not have continuity in their teaching and it seemed to contradict itself. The questions I continued to bombard them with got me kicked out of eventually all the churches. I finally began to see a crack in the dam! My brother in law went to seminary school and ended up with highest degrees and masters in religion. He won't talk to me about the Bible. I dedicated thirty years or more, the last twenty outside of any church or organized religious circles. Alone at home. No pay, no accolades, no degrees, and very little agreement from anyone. This is just for your information, I'm sure there are thousands of others that have found a very different truth to the Bible than the religious masses.
Just like Jesus said seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened and ask and ye shall receive. I have found a God of love that has given me total freedom to go and do what I please with his blessing. He is a God that is not self seeking, requires nothing, gives his love liberally and unconditionally. My God condemns nobody for anything.As I have walked and talked with him and learned the truth from him I have found many things that others have yet to see in the Bible. Anyone who has put this kind of selfless time into understanding something it is frustrating to hear another say things like God required a human sacrifice. I know it may sound and look that way on the surface but God never sent Jesus to die on the cross or any other way. God knew that other masters and sages that were sent to the religious heirarchy were treated with contempt and most beaten and/or killed. It was known as possible or probable that it could happen. Jesus made it clear that his life was his to pick up or lay down nobody took it away from him.He laid down his life as a propitiation for sin. The masses were so dedicated to the law that Jesus knew it would influence many more to believe the final sacrifice took away sin forever. And what do the religious ones do today but say, Jesus died for our sin,yes he took away the sin of the world yet we all have sin and if we say we have no sin we are liars. Oh well I just felt like sharing a little of me with you, Stu. May all the gods be to all the people what each person expects that god to be forever, bless you, TKTK so I take it from your quoting scripture that you think Jesus was historical. Exactly that same scripture describes homosexuals as 'worthy of death'. If you develop a same-sex relationship and seek to have your god rubber-stamp your happiness then it would seem to contradict what you claim for christianity.
There is no other source of what Jesus is alleged to have said. What rules do you apply as you pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe?
I can't see how it makes much difference whether god sent Jesus to die for sin or not. It is a human sacrifice whichever way you look at it. For what? 'Sin'? I am an atheist, I do not 'sin' so it has no bearing on me. For others to claim that sacrifice on my behalf is abominable. How dare they?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 31 2009,02:59) TK so I take it from your quoting scripture that you think Jesus was historical. Exactly that same scripture describes homosexuals as 'worthy of death'. If you develop a same-sex relationship and seek to have your god rubber-stamp your happiness then it would seem to contradict what you claim for christianity. There is no other source of what Jesus is alleged to have said. What rules do you apply as you pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe?
I can't see how it makes much difference whether god sent Jesus to die for sin or not. It is a human sacrifice whichever way you look at it. For what? 'Sin'? I am an atheist, I do not 'sin' so it has no bearing on me. For others to claim that sacrifice on my behalf is abominable. How dare they?
Stuart
Sin is transgression of a law, any law.Moral Law, Ceremonial Law, Health Law, Civil Law, Physical Law, Man's Law, Law of the Sinful Nature, or Law of Faith.
All sin is, is transgression of law.
If you breathe then you have the aptitude of a sinful nature.
Transgression – “The violation of a law or known principle of rectitude.” (Webster's Dictionary 1828)
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 31 2009,21:59) TK so I take it from your quoting scripture that you think Jesus was historical. Exactly that same scripture describes homosexuals as 'worthy of death'. If you develop a same-sex relationship and seek to have your god rubber-stamp your happiness then it would seem to contradict what you claim for christianity. There is no other source of what Jesus is alleged to have said. What rules do you apply as you pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe?
I can't see how it makes much difference whether god sent Jesus to die for sin or not. It is a human sacrifice whichever way you look at it. For what? 'Sin'? I am an atheist, I do not 'sin' so it has no bearing on me. For others to claim that sacrifice on my behalf is abominable. How dare they?
Stuart
Stu: I do not know of any scripture from Jesus that says homosexuals are in any way not included in the Kingdom of God. These fools that say these things have even quoted out of the Bible that there is no male or female or bond or free or jew or gentile is Christ all are made one.How about one half way inbetween. Its obsurd. It divides the Kingdom. It separates instead of unifying. They can believe all the sin and suffering they want. They can live in hell they create. Gods Kingdom is an all inclusive calling.Whosoever will accept and believe. I know what Paul has been quoted as saying but anyone can be mis-quoted or mis-translated. Every human being is a child of God whether they know it or believe it or not. There you go using that word Christianity again. I have yet to meet a person that I thought was Christ-like. Almost every one that I have met that claim that distinction are very judgmental and believe in sin. Jesus didn't condemn the woman caught in the act of adultry or anyone for anything. There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus! I quote that and most “christians” want to kill me. I condemn no one for what they do as long as it doesn't transgress another mans Kingdom. If you knew that the feeling of love that you have inside is from your source of creation and all the rest of this BS is just religious garbage that self-seeking men have procured over the years you might see life different. You needn't change anything you choose to do. Bless you, TKQuote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 01 2009,02:45) Jesus didn't condemn the woman caught in the act of adultry or anyone for anything.
Jesus condemned the Pharisees.
He condemned people for saying foolish and repititious prayers.
He even condemned a fig tree for not having any fruit when it was out of season.
He also condemned people merely for being rich.Why did He say that not one of the old laws, like the ones condemning homosexuality, would ever go away until heaven and earth passed?
Tim
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 31 2009,23:05) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 31 2009,02:59) TK so I take it from your quoting scripture that you think Jesus was historical. Exactly that same scripture describes homosexuals as 'worthy of death'. If you develop a same-sex relationship and seek to have your god rubber-stamp your happiness then it would seem to contradict what you claim for christianity. There is no other source of what Jesus is alleged to have said. What rules do you apply as you pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe?
I can't see how it makes much difference whether god sent Jesus to die for sin or not. It is a human sacrifice whichever way you look at it. For what? 'Sin'? I am an atheist, I do not 'sin' so it has no bearing on me. For others to claim that sacrifice on my behalf is abominable. How dare they?
Stuart
Sin is transgression of a law, any law.Moral Law, Ceremonial Law, Health Law, Civil Law, Physical Law, Man's Law, Law of the Sinful Nature, or Law of Faith.
All sin is, is transgression of law.
If you breathe then you have the aptitude of a sinful nature.
My Oxford Concise dictionary has sin as breaking a divine or moral law. None of the laws of my country are written in moral terms, you could argue whether they are ethically-derived, but they do not contain the word “should” and any ethics on which they are based are not ones unique to Judeo-christian scripture. As for divine laws, well as I do not have a god, that would be a nonsense concept to apply to me.Unless you would like a libel summons? Were you to include me as a 'sinner' (which you seem to be doing) do you have enough evidence to defend the case?
Stuart
TK
Do you have views on the following?:
Why should it matter to you whether Jesus existed or not?
What rules do you apply as you pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe?
For others to claim that [Jesus martyr/sin myth] sacrifice on my behalf is abominable. How dare they?
Stuart
Stu: First of all I feel right now as the utmost failure to get across to you or I guess anybody what I believe. If you think that I have declared you or anyone else as a sinner, I have failed the Truth of what I believe.Please allow me to try once again. Lets start by dividing the topic into what I think is truth about God and what the truth is in this physical world. I am only intending to talk about the relationship between man and God. I believe sin(something done believed to be an error against God) is a man made concept started by Adam of dividing good into good and bad.The word sin was not in the Garden of Eden. It appears to me that sin is wrong thinking of a man that he has done something against God that separates him from union with God. I believe sin is a mistaken thought. I am talking about the relationship of man and God not anything on this earth at this time. The only way a man could be separated from God is in his mind. That is based on the fact that God is everywhere. Whether you believe that or not please indulge me for the moment that the Bible infers that there is no place that God isn't.Therefore there is no way for a man to separate himself from union with God except by sin/error of belief. The religious world believes that sin against God is an action and once sin is in the mind it probably will produce an action but thought is first. Something one does or does not do. If Jesus took away our sin how could he take away what we do or don't do. He could take away our wrong thinking but how could he take away our actions. He gave us the truth, we are one with God no matter what!
I believe that a person is in sin/error of thought if he believes that he and the source of all creation are not one together. I believe that sin is basicly the same as devil,deception,deceived. All are distortions of thought or un-truth. Mankind was in mental error or decieved thinking that the things he was doing were against God. Jesus refered to it as being in darkness, drunk with error/sin, couldn't see the light/truth. They were lost in trying to find their way back to God, who never left. This is how sin could destroy mankind. All they could see was life apart from actual life/God and therefore began to create their own demise with destructive thinking. Just a opinion that I wanted to share.
I pick and choose the gospels of Jesus first and foremost. Everything else must align with those books. I do not spend much time looking in an old will that has an old law that is fulfilled and completed. Jesus said the law and the prophets were until John the Baptist, since then the Kingdom of God is preached. The Kingdom within is what Jesus taught. (Luke 17:21–Luke 16:16 & more) All doctrines and religions must align with Jesus' ministry or they are set aside until I can see that they do.
Why do I follow Jesus? Doesn't everybody have a super-hero? You can argue whether or not Jesus did what he is said to have done but if you believe he did (I believe) and he said we all have the same power of God avaliable within and would do greater things than he did. That intrigues me. Plus if I am wrong and still follow what he taught of reaping and sowing and I believe I would be able to create something good in the world. Bless you, TKQuote (TimothyVI @ Nov. 01 2009,05:20) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 01 2009,02:45) Jesus didn't condemn the woman caught in the act of adultry or anyone for anything.
Jesus condemned the Pharisees.
He condemned people for saying foolish and repititious prayers.
He even condemned a fig tree for not having any fruit when it was out of season.
He also condemned people merely for being rich.Why did He say that not one of the old laws, like the ones condemning homosexuality, would ever go away until heaven and earth passed?
Tim
Hey Tim: Disagreeing is not condemning. The condemnation that I am refering to is making a judgment between what a man has done and condemning him before God. Jesus never condemned anyone. To their own master they stand or fall. There is no condemnation for those in Christ.
The law and the prophets were until John the Baptist, since then the Kingdom is preached by Jesus.(Luke 16:16)
Jesus did not come to stay or lodge in the law, but to fulfill it.
That is to complete it. That is to say the law is passed away. It was until John.
The old heaven and earth passed away and the New Heaven and Earth have come together. (look up the word “pass” it means to come forth or go away) The new creation, new covenant has come in Jesus. God Bless, TKStu! I usually don't say anything to you, but this morning just looking outside made me think about those like you, that don't believe in a God.
How can all of this beauty that was created by our God, which IMO is true, how can all of that just come by a big bang. And who is it that keeps everything going. There has to be a higher being that keeps all going. The tree's that sheed their leaves in the fall and the leaves that come back in the spring.
The sun that shines just so right to warm the earth. Not to speak about us, our eyes how delicate and just so right that we can see all that He has created for us.
I only knew one Atheist besides you. We used to sit with Him in the car after Night School, and discuss God. I was a 17 year old at the time, and my Parents never went to church or even talked about God.
Then back in Germany, I was about 9 years old, when they were saying that the world was going to come to an end. I was alone, like most of the time. So I went and laid down into a big clover field and looked into the sky, and said:” God here I am, I am ready for you.” Needless to say the world did not come to an end that day. But I will never forget the love that I felt that day. The kind of Love that only God can give us. I know you probable don't agree with me,and I have no idea why you believe the way you do, but to me God is real.
In Peace and Love to you, IreneIrene
Quote Stu! I usually don't say anything to you, but this morning just looking outside made me think about those like you, that don't believe in a God.
How can all of this beauty that was created by our God, which IMO is true, how can all of that just come by a big bang.
Good question! And I think one that has a beautiful answer. Energy, matter, stars, planets and indeed life have all resulted from the workings of the same laws of physics. I don’t know whether you had a positive experience with mathematics at school or not, and I would understand if you did not see that maths has beauty, but the laws of physics are described by quite simple and elegant maths. The reason that stars form (gravity) is the same reason that we have a Moon, using the same equation. The same forces that hold a snowflake together (hydrogen bonding) also holds DNA together and allows it to replicate. Everything is like this: things like miracles, that would defy the laws of physics, don’t happen (except in human imaginations). It all comes from the way that matter behaves in any situation.Quote And who is it that keeps everything going. There has to be a higher being that keeps all going. The tree's that sheed their leaves in the fall and the leaves that come back in the spring.
The answer is DNA I think. DNA codes for enzymes that make abscisic acid (in some plants) that causes the leaves to fall when the weather gets colder and the supply of minerals from the soil slows down. I’m not sure why there is a need for a “higher being”. What would it have to do?Quote The sun that shines just so right to warm the earth. Not to speak about us, our eyes how delicate and just so right that we can see all that He has created for us.
Should we be surprised that we live on a planet that is just the right temperature for us? In the words of Douglas Adams, should a puddle be surprised at how well it fits its hole?Quote I only knew one Atheist besides you. We used to sit with Him in the car after Night School, and discuss God. I was a 17 year old at the time, and my Parents never went to church or even talked about God.
Then back in Germany, I was about 9 years old, when they were saying that the world was going to come to an end. I was alone, like most of the time. So I went and laid down into a big clover field and looked into the sky, and said:” God here I am, I am ready for you.” Needless to say the world did not come to an end that day. But I will never forget the love that I felt that day. The kind of Love that only God can give us. I know you probable don't agree with me,and I have no idea why you believe the way you do, but to me God is real.
I think we can all sit quietly alone and contemplate our place in the scheme of things and find from that some contentment or understanding of our own. When I was young I considered the possibility that there was some kind of divine design in the universe, I mean after all it is all so complex and had to come from somewhere, right? This did not last long for me because I soon found out that just about all of my questions already had very good answers from the world of science. Those scientists had evidence for their ideas, and most importantly they had doubt. When they didn’t know, they said so. On the other hand the religious people had no explanations at all. It was simply “god did it, you don’t need to ask how, and yes we are right, why are you doubting? That is not satisfactory.I suppose some people might find it a bit scary to think that the whole universe is completely indifferent to us, and indeed dangerous for us outside the thin atmosphere that supports us. There is no god to comfort us or give us some kind of life after this one. We are alone and at the mercy of whatever nature throws at us.
However, those things are beautiful. The universe does not have any intent. We are not under constant watch by divine police, there is nothing plotting and scheming our demise in a tornado, there is no eternity and so a final death really gives meaning to the life that came before it. Earth keeps on orbiting the sun according to Newton’s Laws and not according to the whim of a god who, because he can think about what he is controlling, can deceive us (scripture says it is a deceiving god!).
A universe made by a god is incomprehensible: it is a magician’s illusion with no solution. Everything tells me that the universe is not like that at all. It is beautiful and there is no trickery. We can work out what is going on, the human spirit of curiosity is not a frustrating waste of energy.
Can I ask which part of Germany you were from? I have traveled in several parts of the country, mainly in the South.
Stuart
TK I appreciate that you put a positive face on your religious beliefs, although I feel you have made up your own version compared with other followers of Jesus. I guess you have no less right to invent historical fiction than the gospel writers did when they wrote their bit of the NT!
Applying your concept of sin to my concept of the universe which I was explaining above to Irene, it would be your god, if it existed, that would be the embodiment of sin because in the end it is the kind of being believed in by christians that could uniquely deceive us beyond our ability to detect it.
Your beliefs could be forlorn in their delusion but result in motives to do good. What good cannot be done without beliefs in deities?
I don't think I have a superhero. I might have to think about that, but I think I view all people as interesting and often very able and sagely but ultimately just as human as me. There is a whole Freudian theory of god for father substitution which may be matched by a superhero for father substitution theory. I'm not sure about that. Do you think some people are so afraid of what the universe might do to them that they need something to act as a protecting figure, even if it is not a real one?
Stuart
Stu! well I thought you might have an answer to all those things. But that's alright. One day we will all find out, who is right or who is wrong.
I was born in Rheine Westfalen which is close to the North Sea. I came in 1955 with my Mother and Stepfather. My Father died during the war. My Husband too came from Germany in 1958. We met here in a German Club. He is from Berlin, but was born in East Prussia. We married in1961. We have 4 Children and 7 Grandchildren. Anything else you want to know, just kidding.
I really like the Alps and Bavaria. We visited my Husbands Mother in 1987 and we went on a trip down to Heidelberg and into the Black Forest. Since She died we have not been back to Germany. We traveled here in America a lot with the Church we belonged to for 10 years. Florida and the Lake of the Ozarks and Niagara Falls are some of my favorite places.
Do you live in the United States or not?
Peace IreneIrene no I don't live in the US. I live in New Zealand, the land of Nick and t8 and 40 million sheep. A few years ago I traveled by car along the Rhine in your part of Germany, visiting Bonn and Koln, and years earlier I had cycled in the South. I had a great time down in Bavaria and Austria but my German is limited to one year at school, and I found it very difficult to understand the accent and dialect down there. For a lot of that trip I cycled on the Donauradweg, from the Black Forest at Donaueschingen to Vienna. Marvelous place. Very conservative though! Difficult to find supermarkets open on a Sunday.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 04 2009,19:37) Irene no I don't live in the US. I live in New Zealand, the land of Nick and t8 and 40 million sheep. A few years ago I traveled by car along the Rhine in your part of Germany, visiting Bonn and Koln, and years earlier I had cycled in the South. I had a great time down in Bavaria and Austria but my German is limited to one year at school, and I found it very difficult to understand the accent and dialect down there. For a lot of that trip I cycled on the Donauradweg, from the Black Forest at Donaueschingen to Vienna. Marvelous place. Very conservative though! Difficult to find supermarkets open on a Sunday. Stuart
How nice, you and t8 and Nick are neighbors. t8 had some pictures from New Zealand, 40 ,million sheep, really? Very nice. Yes, that is Germany. All stores close on Sundays. It used to be Saturdays and Sundays. That is the way it should be IMO.
You want me to talk German to you? Do you know how to write German? Since we have been her for so long, I am kind of stale.
Guten Tag, wie geht es Dir. Mir geht es gut. Es ist jetz morgens frueh, ich will gleich esen,und dann gehe ich schlafen.
Nachs schlafe ich nicht gut, so muss ich jetz schlafen gehen.
Enough. Have a nice day, IreneQuote (Stu @ Oct. 31 2009,12:54) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 31 2009,23:05) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 31 2009,02:59) TK so I take it from your quoting scripture that you think Jesus was historical. Exactly that same scripture describes homosexuals as 'worthy of death'. If you develop a same-sex relationship and seek to have your god rubber-stamp your happiness then it would seem to contradict what you claim for christianity. There is no other source of what Jesus is alleged to have said. What rules do you apply as you pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe?
I can't see how it makes much difference whether god sent Jesus to die for sin or not. It is a human sacrifice whichever way you look at it. For what? 'Sin'? I am an atheist, I do not 'sin' so it has no bearing on me. For others to claim that sacrifice on my behalf is abominable. How dare they?
Stuart
Sin is transgression of a law, any law.Moral Law, Ceremonial Law, Health Law, Civil Law, Physical Law, Man's Law, Law of the Sinful Nature, or Law of Faith.
All sin is, is transgression of law.
If you breathe then you have the aptitude of a sinful nature.
My Oxford Concise dictionary has sin as breaking a divine or moral law. None of the laws of my country are written in moral terms, you could argue whether they are ethically-derived, but they do not contain the word “should” and any ethics on which they are based are not ones unique to Judeo-christian scripture. As for divine laws, well as I do not have a god, that would be a nonsense concept to apply to me.Unless you would like a libel summons? Were you to include me as a 'sinner' (which you seem to be doing) do you have enough evidence to defend the case?
Stuart
Australia and new Zealand Law and history:The Church and State Relationship in Australia: The Practice of s.116 of the Australian Constitution
The history of church and state relations in Australian Law
Charlotte Baines, Monash UniversityEveryone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
(Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 18)The right to express a belief encompasses a range of activities (Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, 1981, Article 6)
The right to freedom of religion is referred to in a number of international treaties. The most significant is the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR)
Article 20(2) provides that ‘any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.’
Also relevant are the Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCROC), which guarantees the child’s right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion (Article 14) and the right of children who are Indigenous or belong to a minority to group to profess and practise their own religion, and ILO Convention 111 on Discrimination (Employment and Occupation), which prohibits discrimination in employment on the grounds of religion.
New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990
The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BoRA): affirms the right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief; this includes the right to hold and embrace views without interference
protects the right to express religion and belief in worship, observance, teaching and practice
affirms the right of minorities to be free from discrimination.http://nzpostgraduatelawejournal.auckland.ac.nz/Lawandsociety.htm
Quote In New Zealand blasphemous libel is a crime, but cases can only be prosecuted with the approval of the Attorney-General and the defence of opinion is allowed: “It is not an offence against this section to express in good faith and in decent language, or to attempt to establish by arguments used in good faith and conveyed in decent language, any opinion whatever on any religious subject.” Blasphemous libel was an offence under the common law of England and Wales. It is the publication of material which exposes the Christian religion to scurrility, vilification, ridicule and contempt, and the material must have the tendency to shock and outrage the feelings of Christians. The offence was abolished on 8 July 2008 by the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008, having been replaced with the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006.
In New Zealand it is illegal under the Crimes Act 1961 (Section 123) to publish any blasphemous libel. The maximum punishment is one year imprisonment. No one can be prosecuted without the consent of the Attorney General.
Good luck
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