Where is Jehovah&#39;s Organiztion to be found now?

Participant

Where is Jehovah's Organization to be found now?

Is there a Religious Organization on this earth today that
is appointed by the Christ to represent him? One that has
the favor and blessing of almighty God, Jehovah?

It is certainly true that there are now, at this time, many
Millions of those who profess to be Christians and followers
of the Christ on this earth. As well there are a variety of
other Religions on this earth who profess one kind of faith
or another. So many in fact it becomes overwhelmingly
confusing to try and consider them all.

Out of all of these though, did the Christ supply us with
the needed information to identify which one was actually
being used by him? Surly, with so many to consider there
must be some way to identify the one that is actually being
used by him; if such a one exist at all, for just maybe it
doesn't exist!

Is it possible that none of the organized Religions on this
earth today are appointed to represent the Christ? That none
of them have His Father's favor and blessing?

My aim now is to show scripturally that none of the
organized religions on the earth now are appointed by God,
and none of them are being used by Him! This will come as a
shock to the adherents of the many varied religions we see
around us, but, as they say: “to be forewarned is to be
forearmed”!

It may well be that Jehovah's anger is blazing because of
the War-Like conduct of the people that make up these
religions, as displayed by the two bloody wars of our
Century, and Jehovah's intention is to hold them all
accountable for the heavy blood-guilt brought upon them by
the over 100 Million bodies sent to their graves because of
their war-like attitudes.

When the Christ walked this earth he gave a composite sign
of his presence in kingdom power, a sign that would
unmistakably show the time period he was invisibly present.
The fact that his coming would be invisible would be the
reason for that sign to be clearly evident during a
particular time period. Without that sign being evident no
one would even be aware that he would be present! We have
seen the fulfillment of that sign since the year 1914, and
we must, by now, be very close to the Christs final arrival!

If anyone studies the prophecies in Matthew 24 – Mark 13 –
Luke 21 they will see that the Christ never foretold, in
that sign any religious organization that had his Father's
favor and blessing; to the contrary all that he foretold for
that time period was the prevalence of false prophets with
no mention of any true organization that was appointed to
represent him. Does anyone wonder why information as
critical as that would be ommitted from that sign? The
reason that, that information is missing is because none of
the relgious organizations on this earth was appointed to
represent him, so we do not look for an organized religious
body to fill our spiritual needs, we should be looking only
to the Christ invisibly present in kingdom power. More on
that a little later.

Now, as to the warnings about the false prophets Jesus spoke
of, for he said: “For many will come in my name, claiming 'I
am the Messiah' and WILL decieve many.” [Matthew 24:5] [NIV]

“Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am He' and WILL
deceive many.” [Mark 13:6] [NIV]

“He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived, for many
will come in my name, claiming, 'I am He,' and, 'the time is
near,' Do not follow them.” [Luke 21:8]

Jesus continues: “For false Messiahs and false prophets will
appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if
possible, even the elect.” [Mark 13:22] [NIV]

So, Jesus covered this entire world with those words, and
among all of those false prophets, no appointed organization
would be found anywhere on this earth! How do we know that
for a certainty? We know that because of the following words
spoken by Jesus:

“At that time if ANYONE says to you, 'Look, here is the
Messiah' or, “Look, there he is!' do not believe it.” [Mark
13:21] [NIV]
Anyone would cover this entire globe and anyone making a
claim to being God's appointed Organization.

Add to that these words of Jesus: “If therefore they say to
you, Behold, he is in the desert, go not forth; behold, [he
is] in the inner chambers, do not believe [it]. [Compare
Matthew 24:26] [WNT] So Jesus covered the World very
thoroughly, and he would not be found among any of the
foretold false prophets spread across our Globe. To be
expected!

Someone might now ask: “Just where do we go then for our
spiritual feeding, since the Christ cannot be found on this
earth? Do we really need to see with our literal eyes an
organization that professes to be appointed by the Christ?
Is our hope based solely on what we behold with our literal
eyesight? Or on what we can feel and touch? Have we
forgotten what Paul said about our hope? Consider the words
of Paul on this matter:

“This is what we hoped for when we were saved. When the
thing hoped for is seen, there is no more hoping. When a
person sees a thing, how can he hope for it?” [Romans 8:24]
[WWENT] So, do we really need to see an earthly organization
headed by the Christ in order to believe that he is now
present? That would not be showing the true faith, now would
it? Now what did Paul tell us about faith? He told us this:
“Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of
things not seen.” [Hebrews 11:1] [AS] On the basis of those
two scriptures we true Christians do not need to see an
earthly organization appointed by our heavenly Father,
because we hope for “what we do not see”. Is that not
correct?

We, today, must follow the example set by Moses and all the
faithful men/woman of old. About that Paul tells us in
Hebrews 11:24-27 – “By faith Moses when he was grown up,
refused to be called the Son of Pharoah's daughter; choosing
rather to share ill treatment with the people of God, than
to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; accounting the
reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of
Egypt: for he looked unto the recompense of reward. By faith
he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he
endured, as seeing him who is invisible.” We must all now
ask ourselves: 'Are we willing to follow the example set by
Moses, and leave behind everything that is necessary to
leave behind'? Are we willing to make like sacrifices?

The Apostle John described all of the religions that exist
on this earth today in the Revelation account in the
following words:

“And he carried me away in the spirit into a wilderness; and
I saw a Woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of
blasphemous names, having seven heads and Ten horns. The
Woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with
Gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a
gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of
her immorality, and on her forehead a name was written, a
mystery, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the witnesses of Jesus.

When I saw her, I wondered greatly.” [Revelation 17:3-6]
[NASB]

At some point in time, very probaly very soon, this Mother
of the harlots will be judged and condemned by Jehovah God,
but before that occurs, the command is given to Jehovah's
people, to get out of there before it is too late to do so!
Concerning that, we read in the Revelation account these
words:

“And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen,
fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place
of dem
ons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison
of every unclean and hateful bird. For all the Nations have
drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the
Kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with
her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the
wealth of her sensuality.”

“I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of
her, My people, so that you will not participate in her sins
and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as
high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.” Pay
her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double
according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix
twice as much for her.” [Revelation 18: 2-6] [NASB]

Was it noticed? It said: “Come out of her My people!” That
is, abandon all of the Religions of this World. Get out! Get
away from them! Do not participate in their worship, because
it is the worship of the demons. The Apostle Paul made that
plain in no uncertain terms, for he stated: “No; but the
things that the Nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons,
and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with
the demons.”[1 Corinthians 10: 20-22] [NWT] Paul adds to
this with these words:

“Therefore, Come out from them and be separate, says the
Lord, Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” “And
I will be a Father to you, and you will be my Sons and
daughters, says the LORD Almighty.” [ 2 Corinthians 6:
14-18] [NIV]

What must one do though after he has followed the command to
'come out of her?' From where do these ones get the
spiritual food that they need? Remembering what was stated
at Hebrews 11: 24-27 why they simply turn their eyes, minds,
and hearts towards the invisible heavens, and see the Christ
sitting at the right hand of his Father Jehovah, for that is
where God's Organization is at this time, and that is where
their spiritual feeding will begin. We must endure as seeing
the one who is invisible, as did Moses!

I have shown scripturally that Jehovah's Organization is now
a heavenly Organization, and not earthly at all. That is why
the Christ never made mention of it when he gave the
composite sign of his presence, and that is the reason why
we cannot find it here on this earth today.

Each of us by now must appreciate the superior position of
the Christ. As it is written about that superior position at
John 3: 31 “He that comes from above is over all others …
He that comes from heaven is over all others.” We know too,
that Jesus is “the one mediator between God and men,” as
Paul pointed out. [1 Timothy 2:5] Following that, it is
written at John 3:35 “The Father loves the Son and has given
all things into his hands.” [Compare John 13:3] [NWT] So, it
is not any man, not any religious leader who mediates
between God and man, that position is solely in the hands of
the Christ, who is “over all others.” It is as Jesus himself
stated: “All authority has been given me, in heaven and on
earth.” [Matthew 28: 18] [NWT] This authority has not been
passed on to any man, to any religious leader, it is solely
in the hands of the Christ! Jesus could say because of that,
that, … “where there are two or three gathered together in
my name there I am in their midst.” [Matthew 18:20] [NWT]
So, no religious organization is needed. It is all in the
hands of the Christ, who by means of the Holy Spirit guides,
directs and teaches all of those gathered together in his
name! Just how does the Holy Spirit work on these believers,
you may ask? in the following way:

“But the helper, the Holy Spirit, which the Father will send
in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring
back to your minds all the things I told you.” [John 14:26]
[NWT] “When the helper arrives that I will send you from the
father, the Spirit of the truth, which proceeds from the
Father, that one will bear witness about me.” [John 15:26]
[NWT] “However when that one arrives, the Spirit of the
truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not
speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will
speak, and he will declare to you the things coming.” [John
16: 13] [NWT]

It is written at Matthew 24:24 that certain ones might
possibly mislead even the chosen ones, but as can be seen
from the aforementioned scriptures that would be impossible
to do because they are taught by means of the Holy Spirit,
and the Holy Spirit is the truth, so they cannot be misled,
but, as I said, some would try to mislead them by teaching
different doctrine. The Apostle John focused on this point
at 1 John 2: 26,27 where we read the following: “These
things I write you about those who are trying to mislead
you. And as for you, the annointing that you received from
him remains in you, and YOU DO NOT NEED ANYONE TO BE
TEACHING YOU, but as the anointing from him is teaching you
about all things, and is true, and is no lie, and just as it
has taught you, remain in union with him.” [1 John 2: 26,27]
[NWT]

Bearing all of the aforementioned in mind it should be clear
now why we do not need any of the organized religions on
this earth to teach us the Bible, yet even in the face of
everything written here, many will still turn to the
organized Churchs for their spiritual feeding, and suffer
spiritual starvation because they lack the essential
ingredient for teaching, the Holy Spirit. Without that,
their worship is an exercize in futility, to end them all!
This is very probably why Jesus said the following:
“Nevertheless, when the Son of Man arrives, will he really
find the faith on earth.” [Luke 18:8] [NWT]

It will be only among those who continue … “steadfast as
seeing the one who is invisible.” [Hebrews 11:27]

Nothing has changed from the first Century. Jesus was …
“the head of the congregation” back then, and he is still
head of the congregation now as well. [Colossians 1:18]
[Ephesians 5:23] He is also still the “leader” and
“Teacher.” [Matthew 23:8, 10] Those positions have not
changed either! That is just another reason why we do not
need any Body of men claiming to be the appointed
representatives of the Christ to teach us the Bible. It is
the Christ who now does all of the teaching through the
medium of the Holy Spirit.

There is an account in the Bible at Numbers 21:9 that has
application at this time, and is of crucial importance to
all Christians today. That account reads as follows:

“The LORD said to Moses, “Make a serpent and put it on a
pole, anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” “So
Moses made a bronze serpent and put it on a pole. Then when
anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake,
they lived.” How then does this apply to all Christians
today? The words of Jesus will clarify this for us, for he
stated: “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whosoever
believes will in Him have eternal life.” Numbers 21:8, 9;
John 3:14]

This article has lifted up the Son of Man, and placed him in
the office that is rightfully his, so now each one of us
must raise our eyes to the invisible heavens, as those
Israelites had to gaze at that serpent to gain life, so we
too, today must fix our gaze on the Son of Man and “see the
one who is invisible” in the invisible heavens. Failure to
do that will mean the opposite of life, Death, as it meant
death for those Israelites who had no opportunity to gaze at
the serpent in the wilderness. [Numbers 21:6] So, as Jehovah
made the way out for those Israelites so too, today He has
provided us with his dear Son so that we all may have life!
[Numbers 21:8] [John 3:16

Now, as a direct result of the many false Prophets being on
the
scene during the presence of Christ this entire World
would be lying under a blanket of thick spiritual darkness,
but with the darkness the light of truth would suddenly
begin to beam forth. [Joel 2:28,29] Notice the words of
Jehovah, through his penman: “Arise, shine, for your light
has come,[The Christs] and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you. [Upon Jesus] For behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the peoples, but the LORD will arise upon you. And Nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.” Further to that we read: “The people who
walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwell
in the land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.”[Isaiah 60:1-3; 9:2]
Jesus himself alluded to this prophecy in these words: “the people dwelling in darkness have seen a great light, and those dwelling in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.” [Matthew 4:16]
Now Jesus could say that because he was “the light of the World.” [John 8:12] But what was this great light Isaiah foretold, what was this light that shined on them? Now, we know it had to do with the Christ, but where would we look now to show that to be true?

Notice, if you will, this next statement made by Jesus when
he gave the composite sign of his presence in kingdom power:
“For just as the lightening flashes from the east and shines
and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the
Son of Man be.” [AB] [Matthew 24:27] [Compare Luke 17:24]

Now, this would not be a literal flash of lightening, and
most would not discern its flashing. Still, some would get
the sense of what Jesus was saying here. Who might those be?
These next words of Jesus will aid us in knowing the answer
to that question. “Where ever the body shall be, also the
eagles shall be gathered thither.” [Matthew 24:28] [WNT]
Now, in saying the body, Jesus was making reference to
himself, but who are these eagles?

We know that an eagle is a very far-sighted Bird who can
spot a meal on the desert floor from a long way off; zooming
in on it and gorging himself until full.
So, the eagle pictures far-sighted individuals who see the
Christ in kingdom power and turn to him for their spiritual
feeding. So, wherever the Christ is there is where far
sighted Christians will be gathered, and they continue
steadfast as “seeing the one who is invisible.” They would not be gathered to any self-appointed Body of men professing to be the appointed representatives of Christ, they would be gathered together to the Christ, now invisibly present.

While this spiritually bedarkened world continues its search
for the Christ among the many varied religions of this
world, these sharp-eyed eagle-like individuals will turn all
of their attention on the invisible heavens where the Christ
sits enthroned at the right hand of his Father, for that is
where Jehovah's organization now is, in the invisible
heavens!

April 9, 2009 at 2:06 pm#127108

Proclaimer

Participant

Yes.

The Church is the Body of Christ.

The head of that body is Yeshua.
We who are the living stones that make up the temple, are filled with YHWH's spirit.

No denomination is the Church. There may be people in the Body of Christ that are members of a denomination, but as you say, we are to come out of her. The prophetic voice cries, “Come out of her my people”.

April 9, 2009 at 3:29 pm#127113

Participant

Quote (t8 @ April 10 2009,02:06)

Yes.

The Church is the Body of Christ.

The head of that body is Yeshua.
We who are the living stones that make up the temple, are filled with YHWH's spirit.

Hi T8!
Right on T8, right on! Texas

April 11, 2009 at 8:27 am#127224

Cindy

Participant

People today live in spiritual darkness just as they did in Jesus time because they love the dark.
And why should they worry? they are being told, just come to church, and you will be raptured to heaven before all the trouble start. It is after all, less stressful to believe a lie.

Georg

April 11, 2009 at 3:04 pm#127247

Participant

Quote (Cindy @ April 11 2009,20:27)

Georg

Hi Cindy!
Yeah! I guess you're right! If the lie will get you through the night with little stress, more power to you! It will not, though, get you through Armageddon alive! The Bible tells us, that it is only the truth that will set us free! {John 8:32;17:5} Only by teaching and living the truth will put us on the road to everlasting life! Texas

April 12, 2009 at 12:07 am#127283

Participant

Quote

It's true that those scriptures do mention false prophets. But notice something else that is mentioned:

Matt. 24:14; 28:19,20: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . teaching them.”

For all nations to be given the opportunity to hear that good news, the preaching must be carried out in an orderly way,with suitable oversight. How would this be accomplished without organization? When Jesus trained his early disciples for this work, He did not simply tell each one to go wherever he desired and to share his faith in whatever way he chose. He trained them, gave them instructions and sent them out in an organized manner. See Luke 8:1; 9:1-6; 10:1-16.

So there may not be “any mention of a true organization that was appointed to represent him” but clearly, based on Matthew 24:14, there would have to be. The only alternative, is to believe that this global preaching work is being delivered by individuals who all have conflicting beliefs, attitudes, standards of conduct. They don't agree. Hence, they can not all be correct.

1 Cor. 14:33, 40: “God is a God, not of disorder, but of peace. . . . Let all things take place decently and by arrangement.”
The apostle Paul is here discussing orderly procedure at congregation meetings. Applying this inspired counsel requires respect for organization.
If the God of the Bible is not a god of disorder, then he is one of order, and would have this worldwide preaching work carried out in an orderly way.

Also:
Heb. 10:24, 25: “Let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near.” (Compare Rom 1:1,2)
To carry out this Scriptural command, there must be Christian meetings that we can attend on a consistent basis. Such an arrangement encourages us to express love toward others, not only concern about self. To where would a person direct interested ones so they could obey this command if there were no organization with regular meetings where they could gather?

And again, on the subject of carrying this preaching work (mat 24:14) out in an orderly way:
1 Cor. 1:10: “Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”
I would argue strongly that such unity would never be achieved if the individuals did not meet together, benefit from the same spiritual feeding program, and respect the agency through which such instruction was provided. See also John 17:20, 21.

1 Pet. 2:17: “Have love for the whole association of brothers.”
Does that include only those who may meet together for worship in a particular private home? Not at all; it is an international brotherhood, as shown by Galatians 2:8, 9 and 1 Corinthians 16:19.

1 Pet. 2:9, 17: “But you are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. . . . Have love for the whole association of brothers.”
An association of people whose efforts are directed to accomplish a particular work is an organization.

John 10:16: “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.”
Since Jesus would bring such ones into “one flock,” is it not obvious that they could not be scattered in Christendom’s religions?

The truth is:

The earliest Christians did not worship merely as individuals but were organized into congregations and were united under overseers and a central body of elders that looked to Jesus as Head. (Acts 14:21-23; 15:1-31; Eph 1:22; 1 Tim 3:1-13)

Quote

Where is Jehovah's Organization to be found now?

Obviously, if they are carrying out the prophecy in Matthew 24:14, then they would be found all over the world, speaking all sorts of languages and have a global worldwide presence. They would be carrying out this same message unitedly as a brotherhood.
But, of course, you don't have to “find” them. If they are carrying out this work (mat 24:14), they will find you.

david

April 12, 2009 at 12:13 am#127285

Participant

Hi David,
Their best evangelisation would be now, as in the days of the early disciples, in the power of the Spirit of God. Words are cheap but God shines out of those who are His servants as He did with Jesus. Unless we show the true fruit how can we offer anything to others?

April 12, 2009 at 12:16 am#127288

Participant

Quote

Words are cheap

Nick, would you say words about the “kingdom” are cheap?

“This good news of the kingdom will be preached….”

Would you say this is cheap work? Or useless work?

April 12, 2009 at 12:18 am#127290

Participant

Hi david,
If others cannot see in us the joy and peace and freedom the kingdom brings then how will they be drawn?

April 12, 2009 at 3:01 am#127299

seekingtruth

Participant

David,
I must agree with Nick, as did Paul

1 Corinthians 2:3 I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

I believe this supports the saying; what others see in our lives speaks far louder then anything we say

April 13, 2009 at 12:04 am#127348

Participant

Quote (david @ April 12 2009,12:07)

Quote

It's true that those scriptures do mention false prophets. But notice something else that is mentioned:

The truth is:

Quote

Where is Jehovah's Organization to be found now?

david

Hi David!
Oh! But the preaching activity is Organized, as you say, but it is organized by the Christ now invisibly present in Kingdom power. Who could organize it better than he? As for the baptizing that you mentioned; you forgot to mention it was done by Holy Spirit, not by water! Big difference between the two eh? Water as done by Christendom's Religions or Holy Spirt as done by the Christ! Which do you prefer? Certainly Jesus is a suitable overseer, is he not? And who could do it more orderly than Jesus the Son of Jehovah God? Do you believe that Jesus cannot send out individuals? Do you believe that he cannot train and teach them now from his heavenly vantage point by means of Holy Spirit? You had better read again: John 14:26 and 16:13 1 John 2:27 that should show you that Jesus can get the complete job done very adequately, without the aid of any man on this earth!

I should mention too that those sent out by Jesus will teach correctly, again, without the aid of any man on this earth, and it will be done in an orderly way! Unless, of course, you believe that Jesus isn't capable of maintaining order from his heavenly vantage point!

As far as those Jesus sends out, finding anyone. I have found you, and many like you on these so-called Christain Boards; and I have done that under the direction of the Son of Jehovah God, Jesus Christ. and I believe that I have adequately preached the good news to you. If you can not see that, perhaps you should have your glasses adjusted, so that you can see more clearly!Or perhaps you should request of Jehovah for his Holy Spirit so you will be able to understand his written word correctly.

Right now, you do a mere cursory reading of scripture and establish your beliefs on mere surface knowledge. That doesn't get the job done, not at all!I should also mention that those taught and trained by the Christ now, do not have conflicting beliefs, but all speak in harmony one with the other. Each one 'having the same mind and the same line of thought'. {1 Corinthians 1:10}
As far as having respect for Jehovah's organization, myself and those like me have a great deal of respect fo
r Jehovah's organization, now operational in the invisible heavens! But you totally missed that point didn't you? You didn't even know that, that organization was operational in the invisible heavens at this time, now did you? How could you, you are a follower of men, not the Christ!

I will close by telling you that whenever I can I follow the direction given at Hebrews 10:24,25. You see, although you are not aware of it as yet, there are many us who gather together when opportunity permits. Enough said! Texas

April 13, 2009 at 12:05 am#127350

Participant

Hi texas,
If you are following Jesus you should follow him through the water.

April 13, 2009 at 5:38 am#127376

Participant

Quote

Hi david,
If others cannot see in us the joy and peace and freedom the kingdom brings then how will they be drawn?

For a certainty, the joy and peace draws them. But it is the words that invite them:

“This good news of the kingdom will be preached….”

Nick, I don't think Jesus was wrong when he said this.

Quote

I must agree with Nick, as did Paul

Seekingtruth, I don't disagree with what Nick said, or Paul. But it seems Nick hasn't noticed Jesus words, or his command.
I was just arguing with Nick who said “words are cheap.”

Guess what? The words of the Bible are not cheap. The message Jesus told us to carry to people of all the nations are not cheap. And the words Jesus himself spoke are not cheap.

I was merely pointing out Nicks error. The Bible certainly speaks of people that might “be won without a word through the conduct….” (1 Pet 3:1)

“The fruitage of the righteous one is a tree of life, and he that is winning souls is wise.” (Pr 11:30)

Quote

I believe this supports the saying; what others see in our lives speaks far louder then anything we say

No doubt Seekingtruth. But does that nulify Jesus command? (mat 28:19,20)

April 13, 2009 at 6:20 am#127385

Participant

Hi david,
There is only one message that evangelists must take and it is not the Watchtower.

April 13, 2009 at 6:25 am#127388

Participant

Quote

Oh! But the preaching activity is Organized, as you say, but it is organized by the Christ now invisibly present in Kingdom power. Who could organize it better than he?

–texas.

I agree.

Quote

As for the baptizing that you mentioned; you forgot to mention it was done by Holy Spirit, not by water! Big difference between the two eh?

–texas

I did not actually mention baptism. I merely quoted Matthew 28:19,20 which had “baptism” in it.

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Water as done by Christendom's Religions or Holy Spirt as done by the Christ! Which do you prefer?

For fun, I googled: “Christendom define.' Here are the definitions it gave:

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Definitions of christendom on the Web:

* the collective body of Christians throughout the world and history (found predominantly in Europe and the Americas and Australia); “for a thousand …
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Christendom usually refers to Christianity as a territorial phenomenon. It can also refer to the part of the world in which Christianity prevails.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christendom

* The Christian world
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Christendom

* This derogatory term is used to refer to Protestant and Catholic groups, which are thought to have been established in the fourth century by the …
www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.2950183/k.72A3/Jehovah8217s_Witnesses_Glossary_Words_and_Concepts.htm

* The domain of Christ, a social and religious complex with specific boundaries, created by Constantine. …
www.oplnk.net/~ajackson/glossary/gloss_c.htm

Obviously, I do not consider myself as part of Christendom, or the vast majority of the world alienated from God. I use that word in a derogatory manner, as the definiton explains.

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Certainly Jesus is a suitable overseer, is he not?

YES, and he, like his father is organized. It was Jesus that said: 'Every kingdom divided against itself will fall.' Well, from what I can tell, every individual on this site is a kingdom unto themself. They all fall under the category of “Christendom” in my opinion, and they all believe differently from each one. You cannot find two people on this site who have the same set of beliefs.
And yet, the ones Jesus is overseeing….they are united in belief, attitude, conduct, and are an international brotherhood, preaching the same kingdom message as Jesus commanded all over the earth, in these last days.

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And who could do it more orderly than Jesus the Son of Jehovah God?

–texas

Agreed.

Even when Jesus was on earth, teaching his disciples how to preach, he did it in an organized manner, sending them out by twos, teaching them what their message would be, etc.

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Do you believe that Jesus cannot send out individuals?

Of course he “can.” But I have yet to see two individuals who have gone on THEIR own paths and followed THEIR own beliefs who share these beliefs with one another. If Jesus sent out two individuals, I would have to think they would have the same message, and be teaching the same thing. As Jesus said: “Every kingdom divided against itself….” Yet, you don't have to look any further than this forum, to see that the individuals who are following themselves disagree with the other individuals who are following themselves. If they were following Christ, they would be united in belief and be preaching the same message.

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Do you believe that he cannot train and teach them now from his heavenly vantage point by means of Holy Spirit?

I do believe this. But I do not see it among the indivduals who are clearly at odds with one another. If what Nick believes is right, then is T8 wrong? If what T8 believes is right, then are you wrong? ETc, etc, etc, etc.

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You had better read again: John 14:26 and 16:13 1 John 2:27 that should show you that Jesus can get the complete job done very adequately, without the aid of any man on this earth!

Right, he could have used rocks if he wanted. ““I tell YOU, If these remained silent, the stones would cry out.” Let's consider those scriptures:

JOHN 14:26
“But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.”
Is the holy spirit sending different messages to different people? Is he telling some that God is a trinity and other that God isn't? To some that God tortures people, to others that he doesn't? To some that Jesus pre-existed, to others that he didn't? No.
And yet, the holy spirit does carry out what was promised. The question is, with who?

JOHN 16:13
“However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming.”
This makes the point even more obvious. The holy spirit would guide Jesus followers in all the truth. So, if one person believes X is true and one person believes X is wrong, do you think the holy spirit guided both to the truth? No, at the very most, one is correct. It's possible both are wrong.

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I should mention too that those sent out by Jesus will teach correctly, again, without the aid of any man on this earth, and it will be done in an orderly way!

And it is, in hundreds of languages, one united kingdom message is being sent out, in all the earth, to the sanctification of Jehovah's name.

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Unless, of course, you believe that Jesus isn't capable of maintaining order from his heavenly vantage point!

Obviously he is. But I think perhaps you and I have a different idea of what “order” is. Order is the opposite of confusion and disagreement and strife and conflict and argumentation, etc.

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As far as those Jesus sends out, finding anyone. I have found you, and many like you on these so-called Christain Boards

–texas

This is the problem. Many people say this. But what of the billions of people who don't have computers, much less clean water or food? And even if these billions did have the internet, it seems they would have to search this out.
But Jesus said we should “GO” to them. (mat 28:19,20) The God of justice wants everyone to be given the chance to hear this most wonderful news, not just those with the internet who are already interested in the Bible. AND, He wants them to have the same message, not one message for Fred and another different message for George, and a completely different man made message for Betty.

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and I believe that I have adequately preached the good news to you.

–texas
The good news of the kingdom? (mat 24:14) You have “adequately” preached it to me? Did you even use the word “kingdom”? Have you ever went up to someone on the street who didn't already show an interest in the Bible and preach it to them?

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Or perhaps you should request of Jehovah for his Holy Spirit so you will be able to understand his written word correctly.

What I do understand and what I know for a fact are these two things:
1. Jehovah is a God of order, and so is his son.
2. And, every individual who preaches individual beliefs disagrees with every other individual teaching his own set of beliefs.

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Right now, you do a mere cursory reading of scripture and establish your beliefs on mere surface knowledge.

Completely incorrect. Those who know me on this forum and those who know me in real life understand that this is incorrect. It is true of many though. Often those people who FEEL Jesus in their heart and have no real need to study the Bible…. And so, in the end, they are following their own heart and not Gods word.

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I should also mention that those taught and trained by the Christ now, do not have conflicting beliefs,

So, which one isn't following Christ–T8 (the supermoderator) or Nick (the other moderator)? Or are both not following Christ? You have basically just said that half the people on this forum are not taught or trained by Christ. And yes, that is the appropriate conclusion when we have conflicting beliefs.

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Each one 'having the same mind and the same line of thought'. {1 Corinthians 1:10}

That's the scripture I usually use to show what true Christians should be and what the individuals who follow their own beliefs are not.

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As far as having respect for Jehovah's organization, myself and those like me have a great deal of respect for Jehovah's organization, now operational in the invisible heavens! But you totally missed that point didn't you?

No. Jehovah has a spirit organisation in the invisible heavens, but his followers on earth are also organized. They are not killing each other or teaching conflicting doctrines with one another.

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You didn't even know that, that organization was operational in the invisible heavens at this time, now did you?

I'm thinking you know much much much less about me than you think or give me credit for.

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How could you, you are a follower of men, not the Christ!

If you are a follower of Christ, and if the Christ is not divided, then how many others are there that believe just as you do?
Perhaps you are new. Just a month ago, someone on here was saying how Nick was his spiritual brother because Nick also believes in Jesus, and then he found out that Nick believed in hellfire. You can't just go around saying everyone who believes in Jesus are united. Almost everyone in the world wars believed in Jesus, and they killed each other. This is not love or unity.
So, perhaps you think that there are many on here and other places that share your beliefs. Of course, there are many who share some of your beliefs. But the more time you spend delving into what the other person actually believes, the more you realize that you are alone in your beliefs….And, if you are the only one who believes, just as you do….you are probably wrong….unless you are special and the only one God granted the truth to.

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You assume a lot. I am aware of it. But meeting together does not mean that you agree with those you meet, any more than it means you agree with those on here you meet together with. Over and over I've heard of people who meet together in homes, or people who even go to another church but disagree with this or that, but go anyway just to carry out that command in Hebrews.

It is my thought that if someone says X is right and anther says X is wrong, that, logically they cannot both be right.
And also, logically, they probably didn't get their idea from the same source–unless it was a source who wanted to cause confusion.

david

April 13, 2009 at 6:45 am#127392

Participant

Hi david,
So the JW denomination is a kingdom that does not divide against itself?

April 13, 2009 at 6:51 am#127393

Participant

Nick, I am simply saying that you are not right about a lot of stuff.
Either that, or T8 is not right about stuff.

The above is a fact.

So, putting that fact together with the idea that the Christ is not divided, what can we ascertain?

April 13, 2009 at 10:11 am#127404