Where is heaven?

[Wayfarer]

Where is heaven? Is there such a place anywhere? If it is not on the Earth then where is it? In Space? In a parallel universe?
Can anybody show me the direction?

[ringo111]

does it really matter??

at the end our “heaven” will be on earth anyway

But, to answer the current question, #1 Jesus Ascended(went up into tha sky) into heaven.

#2 elijah went into the sky, on flaming chariots, Went up into tha sky to heaven.

#3 Steven the Martre(think his name was steven) Looked up and saw Jesus at the right Hand of the mighty GoD.

Heaven is above in the sky, or seems to be there. But not all can see it, only some ppl when GoD makes them see, see it.

#4 Paul Looked up and saw Jesus- But no-one else heard the voice-

It is possible for sound to also not be heard, and only be heard by those who are chosen by GoD for whatever reason, And the same with sight.

Apart from the biblical standing, I cannot proove the existance of heaven, or where it is.

I wouldnt call it a parrallell universe.
Id call it a part of this world that most have no idea about, this part of our world can exist within our visible world without being seen by it or physically reacting with it, and within itself can exist apart from and within its own self.(matter can occupy one space, while at the same time keeping its shape)

Example- Biblical example- A legion of demons were inside one man.

I know ppl who have seen angels walking through one another and through people.

[Wayfarer]

Quote (ringo111 @ May 31 2004,09:23)

at the end our “heaven” will be on earth anyway I wouldnt call it a parrallell universe. Id call it a part of this world that most have no idea about, this part of our world can exist within our visible world without being seen by it or physically reacting with it, and within itself can exist apart from and within its own self.(matter can occupy one space, while at the same time keeping its shape)   Example- Biblical example- A legion of demons were inside one man. I know ppl who have seen angels walking through one another and through people.

From scientific point of view it is possible, actually you are talking about tiny matter- energy fields and they are real without any doubts.
I also like your thought about having heaven on the Earth at the end.
And I am sure that we must do our best right here right now to create our lost heaven here on the Earth. I think this is what God actually wants from us.
What do you think?

[ringo111]

Wayfarer –

About the End, and heaven being on earth- In revelation- The new heaven comes out From heaven. It is called Jesus' Bride is the “new Jeruselem” (heaven)
Where GoD, Jesus, and all those who are accepted into the Kingdom will be.

Jesus says When the dead rise they will not be married, So it is a symbol of the dedication promised to the New Kingdom Of Heaven.

From revelation, we are told that, We do not build the Kingdom- But the righteous actions of the chosen are made physical and dress the “New Jeruselem”. So in a way we have a part in it.

But Jesus talks about this new heaven elsewhere and says – “Come to the place prepaired for you by my father”

So keeping this in Mind- the only part of the Kingdom that is on earth right now untill the dead are raised at the final Judgement, are the righteous acts of the chosen, which will be transfered by GoD to be the “Clothing” of the “New Jeruselem”

[Wayfarer]

Ringo111,
So what do you do to be accepted to the Kingdom?
I am sorry if I offended your feelings!
I am really interested what people normally do about this?
I mean in your everyday life?

[ringo111]

There are many ways to enter the Kingdom, But still very hard, either way.

Do what Jesus says.

Required things are

Love your neighbour as yourself.  Parable sheep and the goats points this out clearly. Matthew 25:31-46

GoD's Mercy is for those who are merciful, not those who make a special claim at something above actions(hypoctites). Like modern day churches. Or lie and say theyre works are nothing while at the same time Do GooD. Jesus states plainly that he will Judge everyone according to what they do.

Many of those who enter hell, will escape GoDs final Death, The 2nd death , prepaired for satan, By doing GooD to the poor. Jesus tells pharasee's that even if they gave one feast for the poor, that they would not fail to recaive a reward at the reserection.

Why you ask? Because Jesus  SAYS SO!!!!
BECAUSE GoD!!! MADE JESUS BOTH CHRIST AnD LoRD!!!
ALL THESE CHURCHES THAT LIE!!!!! im so annoyed >.<

** Another must is, Forgive all that ask for forgivness. Jesus points this out in a parable, and says, Now, If you ask GoD to forgive you, He will, and now you must forgive all who ask for forgivness, or you will be thrown into prison and tourchoured untill they can repay at GoD's Command, in what prison can u repay. Hmm. Wonder if thats a translation error, I see no other evidence that there can be a repayment plan from hell. Apart from the life you allready lived that will be finally wieghed on Judgment day.

Think GoD, doing what he says he will do, To the Good, he will show himself GooD, To the wiked He will show himself wiked. That GoD wants the man who wanted repayment, from another man who beged forgivness, that couldnt repay, So GoD wants repayment from the forgiven man who then did not forgive who now in gaol(jail), can never repay.

****************************************

The ultimate of ultimates is- escaping hell, going straight to heaven ^_^

Obeying the stuff above +

Being baptised into the name of the lord Jesus. (dont know if anyone actually has that authority anymore)     As the evidence shows, My baptism seems to be evidently a forgery, a lie. I received baptisms into (the father, son , holy spirit) Which non of the disciples baptised people into. They only baptised into the name Of Jesus Christ.

The ultimate of these is. But still not required- Or as of yet I do not think it is required.

Gains treasure in heaven by-
#1 selling what you have and giving to the poor

Paul says anyone who does that will be made perfect for every good work.

Also Jesus says gain for yourselves friends in heaven with your money. The only way in the bible that you please ppl in heaven is by giving to the poor. GoD states in the old testimate. “Whoever lends to the poor lends to the lord”

I know this one isnt required, but is really GooD if GoD reveils it to you.

#2 Do not be married, (have sexual relations, god see's anyone who joins physically as one(married)) Jesus Says it is greater to remain single, But few are able. Paul says, he would encourage all to stay single if they can, because your more effective for the Kingdom that way, If you can overcome the natural desire.
Yet Jesus said only few can see it is better, and then, that those who can see its better to be single, should choose so, it is not a command.  
As for me, I dig chix ^_^, Not sure if ill be in that boat.

*I believe Because Jesus says, If you can be trusted with what is little, you can be trusted with what is much. Money is little, Therefore Give it all to the poor. Then your treasure in heaven to give to the Poor- God then makes you powerfullfor speaking life and giving that to the poor. Who GoD sent Jesus to give gooD news too, To preach the year of the lords favor. ^_^

And then doing everything that jesus says to Do, You have power over Demons, and can heal and everything. Though , since the appostles, not many (if any) have done this. Only people who go out into Poor countries who GoD wants to help, who themselves are liiers, yet are preaching Jesus to the people, These are who say to Jesus, Didnt we perform Miracles in your name, and cast out demons. And he says Go away, I never knew you.

You see, Just because you ecknowledge Jesus, is not enough, Its doing the tough things in life, The dinile of self for others, is what GoD values.

This is a brief sum up, Please read the biblical forums.

http://heaven.net.nz/cgi-bin&#8230;.7;st=10

http://heaven.net.nz/cgi-bin&#8230;.1;t=122

http://heaven.net.nz/cgi-bin&#8230;.=1;t=20

There are others, Hmm, I got an assignment to finish,
Laterz  

————————————-

I was not offended, Not at all ^_^, Im wondering, what made you think I was offended??

My every day life is not all that special, I am not living the dream life of a disciple, I really am not too keen on the idea.(pain of rejection , as i think about it, moses was pained by rejection and ran away, guess GoD likes that quality, or pitties that quality) Yet im not opposed to the truth shown in scripture regarding what is best. Im not an idiot that rejects what he doesnt like, or cannot live. Im just a fool(semi fool) who does not do everything he knows is right. (seemingly even given up triing)

Actually, Im still young, 22, I am very faithless, I do however have a sponser KiD, and at one stage sold all to give to the Poor. While I was a bit younger, And alot better off Mind you. I figured, If i couldnt Do it then, Id never do it. I tell you to be an incouragement, and not to gloat, allthough, At the end GoD will gloat for me. Barnabas was called, “son of encouragement” because he sold all he had and gave to the Bankers (the disciples),  as we do not really have bankers, But churches that I cannot trust, I gave to compassion, I got a sposer child.

At the moment, as Have been for the last 3 years, am struggleing against Sexual Cravings, Lust of youth. Yet GoD supprisingly Keeps me safe. And supports me in my unfaithfull ways, Im sure only for a little while, Like Jesus says the gardner is told by the master. Dig a trench around the tree, and put in fertilizer, and if it still does not bear any fruit, Cut it down.

Yeah, Oh well, Ive feared man for so long. But here amoungst those who I call my brothers, I am getting more to being allmost loving in respect to many ppl here, am more confident in GoD, In some respects. Im thinking about doing what I always wanted to do as a new believer, gather anyone who wanted to , to submit ourselves to GoD, and ask for his will, Because The mainstream has no idea, They Do not have the power that Jesus says they should, We need Harvesters, and Sowers. But sadly there are not many (even NoNe).

I was torn down by a youth pastor, Told I was a Cult leader, a suicide leader, a rebel against GoD, a heretic! Then in the next breath the same man said Id be an excelent minister, a dedicated and faithfull teacher of his word.

This man tore my friends against me, aswell as satan going to my friends in visions.

After that I was t
hrown out of home for quoting (sell all you have and give to the poor). I prayed earnistly for a sighn from GoD some help, But none was given. Or so It seems. I gave up the will to continue to even live, let alone serve GoD(only took a week) In my pain and rejection, uter lonliness, refined to a coach, I curesd him continually, Holding my rude finger up at him, Ive written hate poems to GoD too. The people that accepted me into theyre home wernt even “christians”, but then again, Jesus asked, “who loved his neighbour? the believer that didnt show pitty? or the un-believer that Did? The unbeliever that did! The un-believer Obeyed GoD's Law)
I Humbled myself To my family, begged to return, and finally I had a home. (I couldnt even walk a block, My back was all bulged and warped) It does not come that easily, GoD does not need me or anyone, Out of the stones GoD can make as many ppl as he likes. GoD wants those who choose him out of the Shlt, out of the horror.
As it seems, GoD has not stopped my chances, yet I feel I dont really care anymore, My salt has become rather saltless, although, it is much saltier than many, I find not much comfert in that, Jesus is our Comparison. I am Just cruising thru life now, My health is returning, I am a fleshy worldly man, atm, Working on my looks, Allthough Strength is Good for helping peeps, Its semi worldly. Live for pleasure, Although I still serve ppls, In basic things, But thats a main requirement by Jesus so yeah. As life goes for me, It seems as though GoD wants me broken, and dependant on him alone, I have not learnt this lesson yet, I dont think many do, But that should not keep me in denighal of GoD's plan, Yet I still hope that that is not the answer, That my observations of GoD's dealings with me are not true, Although it makes sense biblically, and in what has happened to me, Nine Years of demons tormenting me, begging GoD to protect me, then one Day he does after that nine years. Yeah, If that is the case, that I need to submit even further to obtain what i have asked of GoD, That is, My life to be in his will, to the greatest it can be. Then it seems more years of needless pain are ahead for me, Followed by the hatred of many people, but that pain with God, for the sake of his Christ will actually count for something. Jesus said  – Blessed are you when they persecute you cause they persecuted me.

Watever, Me sleep now. ^_^

Just finished my assighnment, YEY for quick completion- 4 hours in all ^_^ yey 4 am, >.< . up at 8 argz LoL, Life is so strange.

Oh yeah, Pray that you'll be found worthy to stand in the pressence of the son of man. Jesus tells his disciples to pray that, so its good enough for me ^_^

[Proclaimer]

I think heaven is a place, namely the place where Jesus throne is and the place where he lives.

When we talk about the Kingdom of Heaven, we are talking of the Kingdom OF that place coming to earth. Same with us, we can be children of heaven, yet we are not heaven itself. Again the word OF is key.

Perhaps this is a distasteful parable, but if we look at the occupation in Iraq, we can say that the government of the USA is in Iraq, but the country of the USA is not physically in Iraq. Likewise the government of God will come and rule the earth. A kingdom is ruled by a King and God has made Jesus to rule over his creation, just as the Pharoah made Joseph to rule over Egypt. Jesus will rule from the New Jerusalem. The link between heaven and earth will be the heavenly city 'New Jerusalem'.

Now the sky, the stars and above the stars are all called heaven, so their seems to be levels of heaven. Paul talks about someone, (maybe himself) who was caught up to the third heaven and heard and saw things unspeakable. So perhaps he was caught up to the place where Jesus and the Angels inhabit, i.e above the stars.

Perhaps beyond the stars, we venture into the spiritual realm as the finite physical realm must end somewhere. It may be possible that this realm is at the end of the smallest things too. So the Kingdom can be inside us and also far above the stars. I heard it said once that a straight line is an eternal circle. So perhaps the biggest and smallest things meet in the same realm. It is before our beginning and will exist after the destruction of the earth and the heavens.

Now the heavens is not to be confused with heaven. The heavens normally means the universe/cosmos. Perhaps the term heavens compliments what Paul says, i.e that there are levels to heaven and the highest heaven is the place of the throne. On the Fathers throne Jesus is sitting with his Father ruling all creation below him. To us who overcome, Jesus will set us upon his throne to reign with him.

Now as I understand it (so please check out what I am saying) there is a Throne and the River of Life proceeds from that throne out to and through creation. This river is flowing through us who belong to God, so that rivers of life will flow from our inner most being. Now if we follow the river, we are told that it flows from the throne and down the streets of the city and I suspect it flows out into Paradise, the place of mansions where Jesus has prepared a place for us. A beautiful place of nature and dwellings. So in one sense I suppose that Heaven is located at the source of the River of Life. Please read the following testimony.

http://heaven.net.nz/testimonies/testimony01.htm

And heaven is above all the stars or should I say beyond the stars. Now it may be interesting to note that scientists who are often wrong of course, say that the universe is expanding in all directions and is expanding at an ever increasing rate. If this is true, then perhaps creation is speeding up toward heaven and judgment and if so, this may explain many things we read about in the Book of Revelation. Like the stars falling from heaven, the sky rolling back like a scroll and the coming of our Messiah. We are told in scripture that the cosmos will eventually burn with fire and God will create a new cosmos where sin hasn't been.

Job 22:12
“Is not God in the heights of heaven? And see how lofty are the highest stars!

Isaiah 14:13
You said in your heart, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows.
3 And I know that this man–whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows–
4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

So where is heaven. Well it is above the stars, it is the source of the river that flows through us to give us life. Remember Jesus said in John 4:14
but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

So heaven is a place just like earth is a place. In in this place there is a city. In the city there is a government HQ called the Throne room. From this place it may be possible to view all creation at once and on that throne is sitting Jesus Christ. He has the light and glory of God emanating from him. His Father who is Spirit is even beyond heaven itself and his Spirit flows to us through Jesus who sits with him on his Father's throne. If we were to stare into Jesus face we would see the  brightest glory of God possible and beyond that perhaps we would be staring into eternity and outside creation itself toward the eternal and Most High God. Who knows what glory we would see if it were possible, but for us, Christ is the pre-eminent  expression of God.

[Author]

Posts