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Wm
I really appreciate your attitude, I only wish I reflected that attitude more, I tend to be very brusque, it's not that I don't care about people, but I find it extremely diffcult to tolerate false brethren, especially on this site, as everyone I've encoutered so far consider themselves authorities (with the possible exception of yourself, notice that I don't name myself here
).So, I didn't pick any answer because you didn't have “none of the above” as a possible choice. This subject has some different levels to it. With those who are not brethren, but seeking, one should never, ever quarrel, the strongest rebuff must be to agree to disagree. With those brethren still on milk, we must be gentle, guiding them to a better understanding of the truth, but with firmness. But, with those of full age we should be firm and even stern when necessary, but if they prove to be an unrepentant heretic masquarading as a brother (or sister), we must lay down the law in no uncertain terms and if they still refuse to hear the truth, we should turn away and have no more to do with them, period. As you can see, I didn't have quarreling anywhere, this is because “quarreling” leads only to strife and this grieves the Spirit in both sides.
Something off point, but something I feel I should address and I don't know any other way to do it. I'm really glad you have moved away from the “eternal torment” lie. This is absolutely of Satan, because it is a scare tactic and it is Satan who rules by fear, not the Lord. Case in point, even unrepentant Lucifer is not destined for eternal torment, nor even eternal punishment. See Eze 28:12-19, the pertinent part being Eze 28:18-19 (KJV): “Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.” Of course reducing a spirit designed to last for eternity to ashes could take a while. It is further clear that the Father is not only just, but merciful and while justice demands punishment, at some point mercy must say “enough!” As a further proof here this is what Jesus had to say to the scribes and Pharisees: “But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in… therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.” Mt 23:13, 14b (KJV) It would be virtually impossible for these scribes and Pharisees to receive “the greater damnation,” if everyone not found in the Book of Life were in abject torment for eternity.
I find it very hard to fellowship with other professing Christians because sound doctrine has been so terribly corrupted and far too many people just go along with whatever they're told and if they question anything at all, they never take a stand. Also, I have been ultimately tossed out of every church I've attended since I was about 13, because I dared to stand up to our modern equivalent of scribes and Pharisees. The only church I got along in for a time was the Assemblies of God, even managing to be ordained by them, but I was tossed when they found me teaching against “Trinity” and the worst thing one can deny in any Pentacostal congregation, that the only acceptable sign of receiving the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues, something I have never done in life (unless you count the gibberish I spouted as a baby
).I wish there was a better way to communicate than these forums, because the turnaround time is too long and often the interplay with others becomes confusing for everyone.
Keep seeking!
Peace – out
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Quote …The best example of a changing view was eternal punishment in hell. For 20 some years I followed the party line and believed and taught without Jesus one was lost and would suffer in hell for eternity. In the last few years I have made 2 major changes to this belief:
1 I now believe that while Jesus' death is the only path to salvation, it does not require that you know Him (just as His death paid for all those who came before him) and demonstrating love in your life will gain you entrance as one of the sheep because love fulfills the law.Matthew 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
2 – I always felt that the doctrine that said people would be punished for eternity just didn't fit with a loving God but it seemed clear in scriptures that that was the case and I couldn't just change the dictates of scripture because I did not like what it said. Then I read a paper on the translation of the word Aion and how it derives it's duration from from the subject it is attached to. Thus all the scriptures fit much better when the punishment is proportional to the crime then one perishes for eternity.
These two changes have cast the Father in a whole new light that fits His character better, resolved conflicts in scripture, and put a joy in my heart that God was both loving, and righteous.
All this was possible because I read something that conflicted with what I believed but by examining it against scriptures I found it fit better with the whole of scriptures….
Seeking Truth: That is truly what you are doing. What a beautiful dissertation you wrote. How very true. How cool is it that flesh and blood did not reveal that truth to you, it was your father in heaven along with you that let his truth make the decision. Love never forces, you were the one that accepted. God bless the revelations God will continue to give to you keep us posted. TK
To All,
I came across this scripture this morning, it seems to indicate that not all arguments should go on forever: Titus 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.To All,
Another point on arguements, I believe that not only should we not argue endlessly, but we should be careful of what we say, and how we say it, so as to not cause unnecessary offence.Proverbs 18:19 An insulted brother is harder to win back than a city with strong walls. Arguments separate people like the strong bars of a palace gate.
To All,
Most do not accept that they might have at some point been a “false teacher”, but most (if not all) have not had the same belief for their entire life (learning as they mature). Earlier in my life, I believed and told others of an eternal hell, which I no longer believe in, so I either was, or am, a “false teacher”. The point I'm trying to make is, to remember what has been forgiven you and it makes it easier to be patient with others as they mature (or maybe you can learn something).Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, someone in your group might do something wrong. You who are following the Spirit should go to the one who is sinning. Help make that person right again, and do it in a gentle way.
Ephesians 4:1 So, as a prisoner for the Lord, I beg you to live the way God’s people should live, because he chose you to be his. 2 Always be humble and gentle. Be patient and accept each other with love. 3 You are joined together with peace through the Spirit. Do all you can to continue as you are, letting peace hold you together.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
While we should resist false teaching and try to correct those teaching it, it should be done gently, however we should listen to others in case we are the false teacher.
Proverbs 15:32 If you refuse to be corrected, you are only hurting yourself. Listen to criticism, and you will gain understanding
Bottom line, we're only responsible to speak the truth to others, while making it as easy as possible for them to accept it, not that they do except it.
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand
One last point I want to make, Personally I do not believe one is really a false teacher if they are honestly seeking after truth, but have errors in their beliefs. I believe one is a false teacher when they choose their doctrine based on desire, not scriptures.
My opinion – Wm
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