- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Numbers
lol you crack me up,
Im the one who created the thread,
you made a cliam within my set questions, therefore the burden of proof is on you,You state its Tyrus,
i already torn down the arguement and your arguemtn of adam,so you stand defeated.
the only thing you have left is to ask me to defend my points.
I dont need to.
I can clearly go along if the scripture does not speak of the devil.but here is what i do know.
MY POINT: Observations
1)The scripture clearly does not speak of Adam nor Tyrus,
2)but it is comparision to Tyrus.
3) It speaks of a Perfect model
4) Someone in Eden
5) made of precious stones and pipes
6) on the Holy mourtian
7) who is Cherub and angel,
8) that had INQUITY not the action of Sin.Who fits the description.
tell me who?
Hi SF,
Logic and inference are not keys to understanding the Holy Scriptures.
Find it written then find it written again and you have proof[2Cor13]
Myths and legends are very popular for teaching in the false churchQuote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,14:26) Numbers lol you crack me up,
Im the one who created the thread,
you made a cliam within my set questions, therefore the burden of proof is on you,You state its Tyrus,
i already torn down the arguement and your arguemtn of adam,so you stand defeated.
the only thing you have left is to ask me to defend my points.
I dont need to.
I can clearly go along if the scripture does not speak of the devil.but here is what i do know.
MY POINT: Observations
1)The scripture clearly does not speak of Adam nor Tyrus,
2)but it is comparision to Tyrus.
3) It speaks of a Perfect model
4) Someone in Eden
5) made of precious stones and pipes
6) on the Holy mourtian
7) who is Cherub and angel,
8) that had INQUITY not the action of Sin.Who fits the description.
tell me who?
Hi SF:And so, with you it is about winning or losing. You say that I am defeated because you say that I haven't refuted your arguments.
I could care less about winning or losing. My concern is that the Word of God is taught in truth, and I ask God every morning as part of my morning prayer to correct me if I am teaching anything that isn't his Word or doing anything that is not His will.
And so the thread that you created was with the question “when did the devil fall”? And so, have you determined this? If so, give us your answer.
Ezekiel 28 does not say anything about Satan, and that is what I have stated. I do believe that the scriptures make reference to Adam since the scriptures are addressed to the King of Tyrus who is a man. The serpent was definitely not a man.
If you want, I will just say that you win, and let it go at that. Teach what you want. I will not teach that these scriptures speak of the devil.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 23 2010,09:01) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,14:26) Numbers lol you crack me up,
Im the one who created the thread,
you made a cliam within my set questions, therefore the burden of proof is on you,You state its Tyrus,
i already torn down the arguement and your arguemtn of adam,so you stand defeated.
the only thing you have left is to ask me to defend my points.
I dont need to.
I can clearly go along if the scripture does not speak of the devil.but here is what i do know.
MY POINT: Observations
1)The scripture clearly does not speak of Adam nor Tyrus,
2)but it is comparision to Tyrus.
3) It speaks of a Perfect model
4) Someone in Eden
5) made of precious stones and pipes
6) on the Holy mourtian
7) who is Cherub and angel,
8) that had INQUITY not the action of Sin.Who fits the description.
tell me who?
Hi SF:And so, with you it is about winning or losing. You say that I am defeated because you say that I haven't refuted your arguments.
I could care less about winning or losing. My concern is that the Word of God is taught in truth, and I ask God every morning as part of my morning prayer to correct me if I am teaching anything that isn't his Word or doing anything that is not His will.
And so the thread that you created was with the question “when did the devil fall”? And so, have you determined this? If so, give us your answer.
Ezekiel 28 does not say anything about Satan, and that is what I have stated. I do believe that the scriptures make reference to Adam since the scriptures are addressed to the King of Tyrus who is a man. The serpent was definitely not a man.
If you want, I will just say that you win, and let it go at that. Teach what you want. I will not teach that these scriptures speak of the devil.
Love in Christ,
Marty
blah blah blah, numbers.omgosh really now this is about winning or losing.
if its about that, than i would have went more into depth about stating that the verse talks abuot teh devil.
yet you continue to hold on to Tyrus and Adam that you stated that the scripture is talking abotu,
when it clearly doesnt.
which i could understand more why you wuold say tyrus even though it isnt correct.
I have already answered my position within this thread.
I dont care about winning.here is what you stated, that the burden of proof is on me, umm why?
you have stated its Tyrus and Adam, yet its a comparison to Tyrus and its nto talking about Adam.im more than willing to drop the whole devil and serpent point, if you can address the 8 points i have written.
than teach correctly numbers.
we are here to learn right?
ok so tell me who is this perfect model?
you siad it was adam, ok lets continue,
he was in eden,
again you say it was adam,
Made of precious stones,
not adam,
Holy mountian,
not adam,
Cherbu and angel,
not adam,
Inquity found in him,
NOT ADAM,regardless what i think, you tell me who this person is.
You already know my position,Why cant you just answer the points.
Im not even talking about the devil anymore. lets go into text, what is it saying?
Its not Adam nor Tyrus.Who is this figure?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2010,09:00) Hi SF,
Logic and inference are not keys to understanding the Holy Scriptures.
Find it written then find it written again and you have proof[2Cor13]
Myths and legends are very popular for teaching in the false church
Nick,
so are you saying this scripture does not speak of the devil?
Thank you for the random accusation.
Did you not say we must tear down speculation?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2010,11:06) Hi SF,
I believe it does.
But that is just my opinion
unproveable by biblical standards
Nick,
Thankyou for that inputNick,
Can you please explain this,
You said, from the orginal sin thread.Quote Hi ACC,
Genesis is not the beginning.
It is only the beginning of visible creation.
The beginning was before Genesis and God and the Word and the sons of God, including Satan were there.[Gen 6, Jb 1,2,38]
Satan is the god of this world having rebelled before Genesis and taking squatters rights over earth while still having access to heaven.[Jb1,2]
Man was created on an earth superficially ruled by the kingdom of darkness.
Satan quickly deceived man and established his rule in man.
Men began to be controlled by the spirit of the air[Eph2].
God's plan then was to draw men back to Him and his kingdom of light.
First the Law was given as a lamp to men's feet and the Spirit shone in the prophets.
Then the Son of God was sent and in him was the fullness of Deity and light.
Satan killed him but his triumph was short as the many brothers of Christ continued to spread that light.
That light will triumph through many tribulations and those found in Christ will enjoy the eternal victory here as earth is the inheritance of the meek followers of Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2010,13:18) Hi SF,
Please explain what you do not understand.
Nick,I mentioned before how the devil could not have a pre-adamite rebelllion. yet you state that he did.
what is your opinion in that matter?
Nick,
Question:
You said that Satan killed the Son of God?
But scriptures state that it pleased God to crush him?
The cup that Jesus reffered to was Gods wrath right?Hi SF,
The earth was formless and void and darkness was over the surface of the deep…
Gen 1 does not record the laying of the foundations of earth[Jb38] but the earth was already there.Nick,
I debated this with At already,
According the bible the foundations of the earth happen when land was created.
which is day 3.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.Empty/Formless, void and darkness mean unfinished. that why there are three words there. Lack of Form, lack of being filled, lack of light.
Thats it, making any other assertion is speculation.Nick if i learned anything from you, is that you cannot take hold an aspect as abosulte truth if there is no biblical referense to that.
And speacialy on that point, is what i wanted to talk about in this thread.What biblical proof is there that states that the devil fell unto earth before Adam was created?
Let me restate my position.
Quote
My position,
The devil must have fell after the Seventh Day.
Why? (reasons with scripture)1. Ezekial 28:13 “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;”
First note that i did cut scripture, the rest of it is above, dont worry, but notice the collen thats there, which shows that this is a seperate point. First the Devil was IN EDEN. How is this possible if he already fell? He was still perfect according to verse 15 until one day inquity was found.
When was this day? after adam or before?
2. Genesis 1:
Second, Genesis 1:2 states that God created the light and it was Good. than he divided the darkness. This is day one!!! IT was Good. Than by day 6, everything that was created it mentions 7 times that it was Good. This is Gods testimony here.
:31 “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
Note: VERY GOOD.
3. God rested on the seventh day. think abuot that? let it settle into your mind.
4. Job 38:
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(In other words, ALL THE Bene elohim shotued for joy when God was working on the foundations of the earth. All of them. including lucifer.) This happen in Day 3.To conclude, from this we can understand that he fell after the seventh day. He must have fell before cain and abel died, (who we dont know when they were born) Seth was born apx. 130 years later, by than men have already fell. By Facts alone, we know that the devil had to have fell between day 8 and 130years. By context we know that God set enmity (Jesus) to the Devil becaues he tempted Adam and Eve. He did something evil. so therefore he was manifesting a seperate will, a fallen will, against God. An enemy. Therefore its safe to conclude that any time after eve was created and before eve was tempted, the event of the Devils falling from grace, becoming evil, happened any time between that.
Obeservations that one must consider according to Scripture as they respond:
>Satan was in Eden, as a Perfect Being.
>Satan had joy when the foundations of the earth were made in day 3.
>He was a Cherubuim
>God said EVERYTHING WAS GOOD.
>God cannot lie
>God wouldnt have rested if Evil was present
>The earth was not destroyed before the first day
>Darkness related to void meant emptyness, incomplete.Hi SFD,
The scriptures you offer describe the FORMING of the earth not it's creation.
That was before Genesis 1Hi SF,
Yes Jesus died.
But the Spirit of Christ cannot die being of God and the lamps of millions have been lit of that light.Now the sons of God are enabled to partake in the crushing of the god of this world under their feet[Rom16], not by might, nor by power but by the Spirit[Zech]
Nick: It would seem that the first move to crush or snub out an evil spirit (lie,liar,devil)destructive thoughts/words, that is not forced out by might nor power but by spirit(words) would be to not declare that liar to be a god!
In one post it seems that you have declared Jesus as dead and lies/evil as the god of this world!
I must be reading the wrong book! TK
To All: It seems to me the devil has fallen into the cradling arms of Christianity. So called Christians talk much about the devil and recognize it as the god of this world. Why would someone who calls themselves Christ-like even acknowledge the existence of evil. There is no evil in this world that does not come through a human being. Spiritual thoughts are either creative/love thoughts that build up and heal all people, which are from God or they are thoughts of degradation,destruction,hate,killing,pain, suffering and evil which are apart from God. You have the power to choose which words, or thoughts you will incubate, contemplate, and meditate on which will energize and ripen the words/fruit to manifestation in this world.
To rid this world of evil spirits/words of destruction we need to speak God truth which builds up, saves, heals, helps the listener, etc.!
We have the annointed mind of Christ. Great power as creative forces of good or evil. Its your choice. Religion says it is what you do or don't do but that is a lie. Thoughts always come first into the clearing house of your mind before they can be empowered by a human and manifest in the earth. Guard your thoughts/mind/heart with all diligence for from it flow the issues of life. Stop empowering evil! Stop speaking destruction to one another. Build each other up with the truth of Christ Jesus and what he has said/spoken to us. Stop looking for wars and destruction. The wars are in the mind. We do not fight against flesh and blood. We fight spiritual/evil words wickedness coming from high up religious leaders. They are blind and have been leading others to blindness. God's truth is spiritual, word wars for truth/peace/light. Evil/spirits/words are lies/devils/destruction! Speak well to your brothers and sisters and your entire life will change for good. God Bless, TK
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
