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Quote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 05 2010,03:32) Ed J, What you are saying is PURE doctrine NOT scripture BECAUSE not only can you not find the Hebrew word X!T(saw-tawn) in Ezekiel 28 or Isaiah 14, you also cannot find the word devil or slanderer.
So TRY again!! Your OPINION that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are not only speaking to MEN, as we are TOLD DIRECTLY, but also are speaking of another person, is PURELY your addition, and thus does not equate biblical truth!
You said, “In some cases God will reference an individual who is being controlled by Satan.
The king of Babylon in Isaiah 14 is one such case.
The king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28 is another such case.
In both cases God is really pointing to the malevolent
evil entity called Satan the Devil who's name is Lucifer!“The idea that God will reference an individual who is being controlled by Satan is once again not biblical truth but your OPINION.
WOW this is really bad IMO Ed J, your attempt to prove your case. Not only do the words Satan not appear in those scriptures but then you turn and say that the men in those scriptures are being said to be controlled by Satan in those scriptures?
Can you PROVE this in those passages? Where does it say in Isaiah and Ezekiel that the Kings are being controlled by Satan?
In just what way were they being controlled by Satan anyway could you please explain?
Hi Jodi,In a demonic spiritual way, I will explain…
Rev.17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed (spiritual) fornication, …and I saw a woman(Rev.2:22)
sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.Rev.12:9 …that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world…
Ezel.28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God…
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart,
I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Nahum 1:14 [the LORD said] …I will make thy grave; for thou art vile.
Gal.2:20 I am(Satan) crucified with Christ: nevertheless I (Christ) live…
Isaiah 14:19-20 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch,
and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword,
that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed
thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.If you don't believe my definition of Isaiah 14:19-20,
then please explain what you believe God means?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 05 2010,05:52) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,03:47) Jodi Lee,
There are Seven Heavens.Do you read in Scriptures and see it is often in plural, 'Heavens'.
It is good that you ask. The 'Heavens' are dimensions. The higher the Heaven the more in God's direct presence one gets.
Satan was in the immediate presence of God up until he was dismissed to occupy the lowest dimension, the abode of the physical, the earth, to which he is 'the ruler' in a limited way that God allows (e.g. He cannot destroy tne Earth nor the life of Mankind but he has power and authority to mislead mankind).
Look around in earthly society. When a great leader, a dignatry, one with high power and authority, is accused of a crime, or accuses another of a great crime, are they removed from their post?
Really, are they. No…
Jodi Lee, why is that do you think that is the case. When you answer that question then that will also answer the question you are really asking me also.
JustAskin,Thanks for responding!
I cannot take your word for it, I need scriptures please.
Where are these seven heavens and where is it discussed that the higher you get the closer you are to God?
Where does it discuss a X!t (saw-tawn) being dismissed to occupy the lowest dimension?
Can you explain more about this saw-tawn having power and authority to mislead mankind, give some examples of what exactly he does?
HI Jodi,The Bible MUST be looked at as a whole for you to understand what me and JustAskin are talking about! (Click Here)
Rev.9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw (Lucifer) a star (Isaiah 14:12) fall from heaven (Luke 10:18)
unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit;
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air
were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts
upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Jodi Lee, if those elementary question are being asked then I suggest you don't want to converse with me.
You need to converse with a milder spirited poster who can guide you through these elementary points of order.
If you do not yet know such basic Scriptural renderings how are you posting against others here. Is that not a little previous or perverse, or 'pre-verse'?
Jodi Lee, are you asking me to teach you Scriptures. I can do so in pm's but not in open forum. But i don't think that will happen. My spirit does not direct me to you, not that you would care, in any case.
Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,08:22) Jodi Lee, if those elementary question are being asked then I suggest you don't want to converse with me. You need to converse with a milder spirited poster who can guide you through these elementary points of order.
If you do not yet know such basic Scriptural renderings how are you posting against others here. Is that not a little previous or perverse, or 'pre-verse'?
Jodi Lee, are you asking me to teach you Scriptures. I can do so in pm's but not in open forum. But i don't think that will happen. My spirit does not direct me to you, not that you would care, in any case.
Sorry JustAskin, there is definitely a bit of confusion.I think your beliefs have major errors, I believe you follow tradition that was carved out by pagan converts who did not attempt to interpret scripture according Old Testament truths, but rather plugged their preconceived pagan beliefs where ever they could. I am not asking you to teach me anything. I am looking for a good debate, and right now things are getting ridiculous with the things Ed J is posting.
I have spent the last ten years comparing Christian faiths and their doctrines with the scriptures they use to support those doctrines. I can't believe how many times I have read a doctrine that had little if NO actual biblical support, but never the less the doctrine is claimed to be the truth.
I am looking for a challenge, someone who has a different belief then I do who can present their understanding with GOOD use of scripture.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 05 2010,11:44) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,08:22) Jodi Lee, if those elementary question are being asked then I suggest you don't want to converse with me. You need to converse with a milder spirited poster who can guide you through these elementary points of order.
If you do not yet know such basic Scriptural renderings how are you posting against others here. Is that not a little previous or perverse, or 'pre-verse'?
Jodi Lee, are you asking me to teach you Scriptures. I can do so in pm's but not in open forum. But i don't think that will happen. My spirit does not direct me to you, not that you would care, in any case.
Sorry JustAskin, there is definitely a bit of confusion.I think your beliefs have major errors, I believe you follow tradition that was carved out by pagan converts who did not attempt to interpret scripture according Old Testament truths, but rather plugged their preconceived pagan beliefs where ever they could. I am not asking you to teach me anything. I am looking for a good debate, and right now things are getting ridiculous with the things Ed J is posting.
I have spent the last ten years comparing Christian faiths and their doctrines with the scriptures they use to support those doctrines. I can't believe how many times I have read a doctrine that had little if NO actual biblical support, but never the less the doctrine is claimed to be the truth.
I am looking for a challenge, someone who has a different belief then I do who can present their understanding with GOOD use of scripture.
Why a Challange Jodi?In other words are you saying ” im looking for an opponent or someone to defeat me?”
Jodi dont forget the word of God is living and Active,
If you believe that There is A God that can actually participate in your daily life, isnt it better to ask him who knows better?I mean if there is anyone to challenge what is truely True around here, we should All, including myself, Ask God.
I think if your truely convinced what you believe Is the Truth than Ask God about it, and continue to do that for the rest of your life as he continues to confirm you.
We should all examine ourselves,
Im Honestly asking, is your beliefs based on the Search of scriptures or by Holy spirit Revelation?
Jodi Lee,
You 'debate' with Ed
I see what you said
But you not yet in my head
Just looked and read.Your last post to me said
You need to be led
To a Scripturally feathered bed
And in union with another be wed
Joined, Spiritually, Soulfully, in mind and in head
You won't get that from Ed
You need someone else, instead
To be nourished and fed
To come into the knowledge, become bless-ed.Simply…is right
Can't say it another way
From him learn the insight
My thought only, have a nice day.Quote (Jodi Lee @ Oct. 05 2010,17:44) I am looking for a good debate, and right now things are getting ridiculous with the things Ed J is posting. I am looking for a challenge, someone who has a different belief then I do who can present their understanding with GOOD use of scripture.
Hi Jodi,Is it NOT true that I have a different belief than you do?
Are you accusing me of NOT making a GOOD use of scripture?
Are you afraid that your presentation of Scripture could be wrong?
Is NOT “The Truth” that you are really NO CHALLENGE to me? (Is.27:4-5)Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,19:18) Jodi Lee, Your last post to me said
You need to be led
To a Scripturally feathered bed
And in union with another be wed
Joined, Spiritually, Soulfully, in mind and in head
You won't get that from Ed
You need someone else, instead
To be nourished and fed
To come into the knowledge, become bless-ed.
Hi JustAskin,Rom.2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things,
and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 05 2010,19:38) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,19:18) Jodi Lee, Your last post to me said
You need to be led
To a Scripturally feathered bed
And in union with another be wed
Joined, Spiritually, Soulfully, in mind and in head
You won't get that from Ed
You need someone else, instead
To be nourished and fed
To come into the knowledge, become bless-ed.
Hi JustAskin,Rom.2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things,
and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
HI JustAskin,John 15:19-21 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye(Ed J)
are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have
persecuted me(יהשוע), they will also persecute you(Ed J); if they have kept my(יהשוע) saying, they
will keep yours (Ed J) also. But all these things will they do unto you (Ed J) for my name's sake,
because they know not (יהוה) him that sent me.Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee(Ed J) shall prosper;
and every tongue that shall rise against thee(Ed J) in judgment thou(Ed J) shalt condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)To ALL,
There is NO story in the bible of a jealous angel wanting to be God and God kicking him out of heaven. Revelation 12, Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 discuss KINGS and these kings are said to fall from heaven. The bible gives plenty examples of man’s fall.
Taking one liners from various parts of the bible, pulling them out of their context, and using them to fit your doctrine is not establishing truth, and it is absurd to argue such methods are using the bible as a whole.
Luke 10:15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades.
La 2:1 How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earth The beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.
Isaiah 10:33 Behold, the Lord, The Lord of hosts, Will lop off the bough with terror; Those of high stature will be hewn down, And the haughty will be humbled. 34 He will cut down the thickets of the forest with iron, And Lebanon will fall by the Mighty One.
Jer 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? No! They were not at all ashamed; Nor did they know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; At the time I punish them, They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
Jer 50:32 The most proud shall stumble and fall, And no one will raise him up; I will kindle a fire in his cities, And it will devour all around him.”
Ps 36:12 there the workers of iniquity have fallen; They have been cast down and are not able to rise.
Psalms 89:44 You have made his glory cease, And cast his throne down to the ground.
Eze 31:16 I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I cast it down to hell together with those who descend into the Pit; and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, were comforted in the depths of the earth.
Eze 32:18 “Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt, And cast them down to the depths of the earth, Her and the daughters of the famous nations, With those who go down to the Pit:
Daniel 4:24 this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king: 25 They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses. 26 And inasmuch as they gave the command to leave the stump and roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be assured to you, after you come to know that Heaven rules.
Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Daniel 2:20 Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.
Job 12:23 He makes nations great, and destroys them; He enlarges nations, and guides them.24 He takes away the understanding of the chiefs of the people of the earth, And makes them wander in a pathless wilderness.
Psalm 75:6 For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south. 7 But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another. 8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, And the wine is red; It is fully mixed, and He pours it out; Surely its dregs shall all the wicked of the earth Drain and drink down.
There exists NO scripture that says YHWH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to inflict and curse people, on the contrary He says that He ALONE inflicts and curses people. There exists No scripture that says YHWH “allows” a force of supernatural evil beings to rule over the nations, on the contrary He says that it is He who has charge over kings and their kingdoms, He gives them wisdom, He makes them rich. He raises them up and brings them down according to His Will. Scripture shows that people who believed that “other beings” were capable of doing such things, were people who were FOOLISH, and are those creating false gods.
Our desire is to dwell with YHWH in the Kingdom of God also called the Kingdom of Heaven, where His Will reigns and not the carnal will of man, where there is peace not war, where there is righteousness not sin.
Apparently however dwelling in heaven with YHWH is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for some. Apparently heaven to many angels is a WORTHLESS place where God cannot even receive respect let alone peace.
The doctrine of fallen angels essential makes God out to be a LIAR, and it destroys man’s hope for Heavenly Peace!
It is a VILE doctrine that utterly disgraces YHWH!!
Jeremiah 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne , because they cannot go .Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil , neither also is it in them to do good . 6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. 7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain : forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee. 8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish : the stock is a doctrine of vanities. 9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder : blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. 10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble , and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. 11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. 12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. 13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. 14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. 15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish . 16 The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name. 17 Gather up thy wares out of the land, O inhabitant of the fortress. 18 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will sling out the inhabitants of the land at this once, and will distress them, that they may find it so. 19 Woe is me for my hurt! my wound is grievous : but I said , Truly this is a grief, and I must bear it. 20 My tabernacle is spoiled , and all my cords are broken : my children are gone forth of me, and they are not: there is none to stretch forth my tent any more, and to set up my curtains. 21 For the pastors are become brutish , and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper , and all their flocks shall be scattered . 22 Behold, the noise of the bruit is come , and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons. 23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. 24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing . 25 Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.
Traditional Christian belief of fallen angels is a doctrine of foolishness and false gods!!
Those WHO KNOW NOT YHWH, blame their woes on false images, not understanding that it is YHWH ALONE that brings blessing and CURSING, peace and CALAMITY, light and DARKNESS. Who is like God that can bring forth the rain or cause a drought leading to starvation? Who brings forth abundance of food or a lack thereof because of pestilence?YHWH ALONE controls the heavens and the earth, ANY accusation that another power does such is a FALSE IMAGE as Jeremiah so clearly teaches.
People need to take a closer look at what scripture actually teaches. Many of you need to take the TRUTH of Jeremiah 10 into your hearts and minds and re-evaluate a whole long list of scriptures, so you can properly begin to understand them correctly and not dwell in a foolish fairytale land of believing in the power of false images.
Jodi,
I asked you some questions,
Are you going to ignore them?what you just posted is called “the Lightening Post (or its longer) name everything in the speed of light” its a debate fallacy. look it up in this thread.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=3306Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
2 Chronicles 15:6 And nation was destroyed of nation, and city of city: for God did vex them with all adversity.
Isaiah 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers :
Numbers 22:22 Then God's anger was aroused because he went, and the Angel of the Lord took His stand in the way as an adversary against him. And he was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him.
Angels OF the LORD are SAW-TAWN unto MAN.
2 Samuel 24:16 And when the angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord relented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, “It is enough; now restrain your hand.” And the angel of the Lord was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
2 Kings 19:35 And it came to pass on a certain night that the angel of the Lord went out, and killed in the camp of the Assyrians one hundred and eighty-five thousand; and when people arose early in the morning, there were the corpses–all dead.
Psalms 35:5 Let them be like chaff before the wind, And let the angel of the Lord chase them.
YLT Job 1:11 The work of his hands Thou hast blessed, and his substance hath spread in the land, and yet, put forth, I pray Thee, Thy hand, and strike against anything that he hath — if not: to Thy face he doth bless Thee!' 12 And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Lo, all that he hath [is] in thy hand, only unto him put not forth thy hand.' And the Adversary goeth out from the presence of Jehovah. 13 And the day is, that his sons and his daughters are eating, and drinking wine, in the house of their brother, the first-born. 14 And a messenger hath come in unto Job and saith, `The oxen have been plowing, and the she-asses feeding by their sides, 15 and Sheba doth fall, and take them, and the young men they have smitten by the mouth of the sword, and I am escaped — only I alone — to declare [it] to thee.' 16 While this [one] is speaking another also hath come and saith, `Fire of God hath fallen from the heavens, and burneth among the flock, and among the young men, and consumeth them, and I am escaped — only I alone — to declare [it] to thee.'
Revelation 8:7 The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.”
Job 42:11 Then all his brothers, all his sisters, and all those who had been his acquaintances before, came to him and ate food with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversity that the Lord had brought upon him. Each one gave him a piece of silver and each a ring of gold.
I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”
The adversary that killed Job's livestock and servants causing him to become poor, was an Angel of the Lord.
KEEPING the TRUTH of Jeremiah 10 in hand, the adversary in the book of Job must be a servant of God of whom has been given the Powers of God to fulfill God's Will,for there is NO OTHER that can bring forth cursing, calamity and darkness, as well as kill and make the poor.
The fact that the adversary asks God to put forth HIS Hand, and the fact that the fire that comes down is said to be the fire of God, AND the fact that the adversity put on Job is directly said to COME FROM GOD, all make the identity of the adversary ALL the more obvious, however for many on this forum indoctrination has led to a serious lack of being able to apply common sense to scripture.
Jodi,
Please you realize your starting to flood the thread, and its OFF topic.***
This is like the 5th or 6th time I had to tell youHere is the topic again: When did the Devil Fall,
In other words, if you believe that the Devil exists.
When did he become the enemy of God?
Not when he litearlly fell, but we know that the earth was not destroyed,
Revelations 21:1 says the FIRST EARTH!so we are still living in the FIRST Earth.
The earth was never destroyed, and the Devil never fell into earth before Genesis 1:2 nor in between 1:1 and 1:2SF,
Have you reported it this perterberance to the Moderators.Seems that Jodi Lee wants a yellow block. She thinks it goes with her eyes, perhaps. Perhaps Green is the correct colour for her, me-thinks.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 06 2010,06:40) Jodi,
Please you realize your starting to flood the thread, and its OFF topic.
***
This is like the 5th or 6th time I had to tell you
I am discussing that Fallen Angels DO NOT exist, that is absolutely on topic.I have been posting scriptures that talk about the fall of MAN, who is indeed a slanderer.
So I am in fact ON TOPIC, you just don't like where it's going!!
The ONLY time I am aware of you telling me I am off topic was once months ago and then more recently one other time in the “Christ was not created” thread, of which I have not been posting in.
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