What was jesus referring to?

[Texas]

Many today believe, that when Jesus made the following statement in John 8:58 that he was referring to himself as the one who was speaking with Moses but, however; if one reads the entire scripture in Exodus 3:10-15 right through, in context, it can be seen that, that, was not the case at all. Look closely at this scripture in Exodus 3:10-15 {New International Version}

“So, now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt.” But Moses said to God, “Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt? And God said, I will be with you, And this will be the sign to you that I have sent you: when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you will worship God on this Mountain.” Moses said to God, 'suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, the God of your Fathers has sent me to you, and they ask me, 'What is his name? ' Then what shall I tell them? ” God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites. 'I am has has sent me to you, ' ” Now, here is where the real truth of the matter lays! God also said to Moses, say to the Israelites, the LORD the God of your fathers — the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob — has sent me to you. ' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.”

We see here, in verse 15 Jehovah went on to give Moses his memorial name, although in this verse it is rendered LORD. Did you notice! LORD is all capitalized, showing us that the Memorial name of God should have been inserted here. My guess, here, though, that a very poor translation has been rendered here that veils or covers the actual truth of the matter. Because it confuses the minds of those reading it, for the true meaning of this passage reveals the true
memorial name of Jehovah God.

That being the case, then, what actually was Jesus driving at by making the statement that he did in John 8:58? saying: “Your Father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, you are not yet fifty years old, and YOU HAVE SEEN ABRAHAM? Jesus said to them, “Truly truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” {John 8:56-58} Now,here is where the problem lies with those who believe that Jesus was saying that it was he that was speaking with Moses. Where this passage of scripture tells us, 'before Abraham was born, I am. ' What was it that Jesus was trying to convey to them by saying what he did? Remembering that those Jews was amazed at the idea that Jesus had seen Abraham. This statement by itself should tell us, that Jesus never meant that he was the I am spoken about in the account in Exodus. It should tell us that this rendering of this scripture is not correct, for it does not harmonise with what is actually brought out in that full account in Exodus. Consider the following, that will show what the proper rendering of Jesus words should mean:
Beginning first with the King James rendering of this scripture at John 8:58- Now, this is where, I believe, the confusion that exists now originated from in the first place, we read: Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.” This rendering here makes no sense at all, when weighed with other scriptures that fully explain what Jesus was referring to. I will point to those other scriptures shortly.

I will set-forth some other Bible translations renderings of this particular scripture in question, and it will be seen how these other translations, more closely harmonize with the truth of this matter, and will aid in setting this matter straight.

From the New American Standard Bible John 1:15,30 —
John testified about him and cried out, saying, 'This was he of whom I said , 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for he EXISTED BEFORE ME.”

“John testified concerning him and exclaimed, “This was the one of whom I said, “The one coming after me has surpassed me, because he existed before me.” {Holman Christian Standard Bible. {John 1:15}

“John talked about him, He called out saying, 'Here is the man I told you about. I said that the one who is coming after me is greater than I am, because he lived before me.” {Worldwide English New Testament} {John 1:15}

Darby Translation- John 1:15
John bears witness of him, and he has cried, saying, This was he of whom I said, he that comes after me is preferred before me, for he was before me.” 'it is of whom I said, a man comes after me who takes a place before me, because he “was” before me.” {John 1:30}

So, we should be able to see now what Jesus was making reference to when he said: “Before Abraham was, I am! Or before Abraham was, I was in existence. That is really what he was trying to convey when he made that statement. Surly, he would never try to tell anyone that he himself was the one who conversed with Moses. The reason being Jesus name was not at issue in that instance it was the memorial name of God that was to be known to those Israelites. The name that was to be carried throughout all generations.

God replied to Moses, “I am who I am. Say this to the people of Israel: “I am has sent me to you.” God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: YAHWEH, the God of your ancestors– the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob– has sent me to you. This is my eternal name, my name to be remembered for all generations.” “I am” was not his eternal name, but Yahweh, or Jehovah is! New Living Translation}

In summary then: Jesus made it very clear, that he was adequately qualified to say, that before Abraham, I am, or I was in existence. He showed his qualifications by these final words to his Father: “So, now you Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory I had alongside you BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.” {John 17:5} So Jesus viewed the activity of the Faithful man Abraham while he walked this earth, and could rightfully say: before Abraham was born, I am, or I was in existence. Texas!

[Cindy]

Texas If what you are saying to that it was YHWY who spoke to Moses, then you would call Jesus a
liar. In
John 5:37 ” And the Father Himself, who send Me, ” has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at ANY TIME ” nor seen His form.

So now what? Are you going to believe in Jesus? I will.

Peace and Love Irene

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ May 13 2009,08:17)

Texas  If what you are saying to that it was YHWY who spoke to Moses, then you would call Jesus a          liar. In John 5:37 ” And the Father Himself, who send Me, ” has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at ANY TIME ” nor seen His form. So now what? Are you going to believe in Jesus? I will. Peace and Love Irene

Irene!
I'm having a little trouble here getting the sense of what you are saying here, because it just doesn't seem to fit in with what I wrote. Hewever, they, in the first Century, saw the form of Jesus and also heard his voice. So, if Jesus was the one spoken about in that scripture in Exodus – I honestly do not get what you was driving at, so be a little more explicit, and thoroughly explain to me, what it was that you were trying to say? If you really believed in Jesus as you say, you would have believed all of those cited scriptures I put in to prove the point I was making. Did you miss all of those scriptures? Did you purposely ignor them all? Texas!

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ May 13 2009,08:17)

Texas  If what you are saying to that it was YHWY who spoke to Moses, then you would call Jesus a          liar. In John 5:37 ” And the Father Himself, who send Me, ” has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at ANY TIME ” nor seen His form. So now what? Are you going to believe in Jesus? I will. Peace and Love Irene

Irene!

Did you read Exodus 3:10-15 IN CONTEXT or did you just read to verse 14 and then stop reading? Now, some translations render verse 14 as this: “I shall prove to be, what I shall prove to be.” Aside from that, though, that entire scripture, when read IN CONTEXT shows what was really at issue. That was the eternal name of God {Yahweh or Jehovah} ” {PIck one, either is acceptable}Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. ' This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.” Now, LORD is not a name, but is a Title, so LORD just doesn't cut it. Paul said: “There are many god's and many Lord's, but to us there is but one God' …

So, in this Chapter and verse of Scripture it was Jehovah God talking to Moses and telling him what his name was, what he was to deliver to the sons of Israel. Now, the name Jesus is a far cry from Jehovah or Yahweh, so Moses was conversing with Jehovah God, and no one else! Unless of course, you are a believer in the Doctrine of the Trinity. If that's true,converstation over.Texas!

[Cindy]

Texas  You believe that it was the Father, His Name is YHWH or Jehovah, that spoke to Moses. I say it was Yeshua, the Spokesman or Word of God, who became Jesus as a Human Man, who spoke to Moses.
I gave you John 5:37 to show you that nobody has seen the Father or heard His voice. Understand  now, I thought you would know who YHWH was.
Peace and Love Irene

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ May 13 2009,11:40)

Texas  You believe that it was the Father, His Name is YHWH or Jehovah, that spoke to Moses. I say it was Yeshua, the Spokesman or Word of God, who became Jesus as a Human Man, who spoke to Moses. I gave you John 5:37 to show you that nobody has seen the Father or heard His voice. Understand  now, I thought you would know who YHWH was. Peace and Love Irene

Irene!
You'd best be taking a look at Exodos 33:18-22 then I believe you will quickly change your mind, because Moses indeed did see Jehovah. Not his face, mind you, because no one can see his Face and continue living. Jehovah did, though, allow Moses to see his back, and as that account tells you Jehovah kept his palm over him to protect him from what he was seeing. Then, too, there was the account about when Moses was on the Mountain to receive the two stone tablets that contained the Law, for the Israelite Nation. Read that account as well and learn how Moses face was beaming so bright from what he saw that the Israelites could not bear to even look at him.

So, again you are quite wrong in your reasoning. It was not Yeshua at all! It was, as I said: JEHOVAH GOD! Texas!

[Cindy]

Texas Are you calling Jesus then a Liar? Jesus said that nobody even seen His form, so now what?
Irene

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ May 13 2009,23:31)

Texas  Are you calling Jesus then a Liar? Jesus said that nobody even seen His form, so now what? Irene

Cindy
I just showed you by scripture that Moses certaily did! Did you not read the scripture I gave you, that showed you that he did? Why is that you are not seeing that? It is you that is calling the Supreme-Being a liar.

When Jesus made the statement that he did, he meant that no-one had actually beheld the FACE of his Father, because any that had the misfortune to do that would end up dead. He could do that, because he resided with his Father in the heavenly realm. He was himself a spirit angel while in heaven, so naturally he could behold the FACE of his Father with no ill effects, while residing there. While no other human man could do that! So, No! You are quite wrong, as usual! Moses had a view of the Glorious GOD JEHOVAH! Although not being able to see his FACE. Even Jesus as a human, could never view the Face of his Father, because was he able to do that it would have killed him; just as it would any other human-being. Texas!

[Cindy]

Quote (Texas @ May 14 2009,00:20)

Quote (Cindy @ May 13 2009,23:31) Texas  Are you calling Jesus then a Liar? Jesus said that nobody even seen His form, so now what? Irene Cindy I just showed you by scripture that Moses certaily did! Did you not read the scripture I gave you, that showed you that he did? Why is that you are not seeing that? It is you that is calling the Supreme-Being a liar. When Jesus made the statement that he did, he meant that no-one had actually beheld the FACE of his Father, because any that had the misfortune to do that would end up dead. He could do that, because he resided with his Father in the heavenly realm. He was himself a spirit angel while in heaven, so naturally he could behold the FACE of his Father with no ill effects, while residing there. While no other human man could do that! So, No! You are quite wrong, as usual! Moses had a view of the Glorious GOD JEHOVAH! Although not being able to see his FACE. Even Jesus as a human, could never view the Face of his Father, because was he able to do that it would have killed him; just as it would any other human-being. Texas!

Texas Yes I did, so the O.T. and the N.T. do not line up, do they? Now what? You either believe the writer of the O.T. or Jesus. Truthfully I am going to make a intense study of both. When you write what y0u did about what Jesus said, you are adding to Scripture. And thank you for the Complement, if you keep that up you will get another warning be assured. One person whom I had a debate with in 2007 did not head the first warning and he is gone. By the way everybody calls me by my real name, do you see my signature. Since you are so mean spiritual that is all, I am 70 years young and I do not need such abuse. Goodbye
Irene

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ May 14 2009,02:55)

Quote (Texas @ May 14 2009,00:20) Quote (Cindy @ May 13 2009,23:31) Texas  Are you calling Jesus then a Liar? Jesus said that nobody even seen His form, so now what? Irene Cindy I just showed you by scripture that Moses certaily did! Did you not read the scripture I gave you, that showed you that he did? Why is that you are not seeing that? It is you that is calling the Supreme-Being a liar. When Jesus made the statement that he did, he meant that no-one had actually beheld the FACE of his Father, because any that had the misfortune to do that would end up dead. He could do that, because he resided with his Father in the heavenly realm. He was himself a spirit angel while in heaven, so naturally he could behold the FACE of his Father with no ill effects, while residing there. While no other human man could do that! So, No! You are quite wrong, as usual! Moses had a view of the Glorious GOD JEHOVAH! Although not being able to see his FACE. Even Jesus as a human, could never view the Face of his Father, because was he able to do that it would have killed him; just as it would any other human-being. Texas! Texas Yes I did, so the O.T. and the N.T. do not line up, do they? Now what? You either believe the writer of the O.T. or Jesus. Truthfully I am going to make a intense study of both. When you write what y0u did about what Jesus said, you are adding to Scripture. And thank you for the Complement, if you keep that up you will get another warning be assured. One person whom I had a debate with in 2007 did not head the first warning and he is gone. By the way everybody calls me by my real name, do you see my signature. Since you are so mean spiritual that is all, I am 70 years young and I do not need such abuse. Goodbye Irene

Cindy!
Yeah! I know I'll get a warning, but that is really because you people who profess to be Christian's are really nothing of the kind, because none of you can stand to listen to the real truth of the Bible. We have a case of same old,same old going here, because that is the way people were in Jesus day. They couldn't stand to listen to him either.

As far as not using your name properly! Who could? When the same thread you use is adressed as Cindy Georg or Irene; Now, come on, which is it? Don't you know that either? Texas

[Cindy]

Texas

I feel for you, you have really cut a work out for you. Hear you are trying to impress people by your lengthy posts of nothing, and nobody believes you.
I guess you thought people were dumber than you, eh?
You know, even Satan was more polite when he tried to trip up Jesus, shouldn't you learn from your master?

Georg

[Author]

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