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Hi BD,
To fellowship with the Father and the Son of God you must abide in the teachings.[2jn.9]
Adding to them your own words and removing what offends you makes that rather unlikely.
But you are not becoming a martyr here just because others call you on your wily ways.Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 20 2009,05:25) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,05:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,04:59) Hi BD,
No. If you knew the Spirit of Christ you would hear him in Paul.
Actually my last post was not debating what Paul was saying it was simply to show who Paul was speaking of preaching another Jesus or Gospel and I provided the scripture because many people use that scripture inappropriately to argue against for instance the Quran but the fact is Paul was talking about the same Disciples that Jesus approved of.
BD you don't show or privide anyting useful from what ive seen so far. you switch to off topics and continue to go nowhere with no points 90% of the time except when you just say people are wrong or yuo disagree. you then put up scriptures and question out of thin are talking about other things not in discussion. good luck. thanks
Maybe you should read my posts a little more carefully.What don't you understand?
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 20 2009,02:21) Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 19 2009,14:23) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Nov. 18 2009,09:19) Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 17 2009,14:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 17 2009,12:58) Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 17 2009,12:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2009,12:43) Hi BD,
James tells us about where sin begins.
From OUR lusts.
adam and eve instead of ignoring wrongful thoughts instead nourished selfish desires and there acts of sin were resulted. so now when we are born our desires are inclined to do what is sinful thats why its so hard to do whats right. life is hard without gods guidance to keep doing unsinful things. born in sin not of sin.
So you agree that they already had the same selfish desires that everyone had after them, right?So that would mean they were created that way.
No one is born with a mind doomed to make bad decisions it simply is not true.
romans 5:12. we inherited there imperfections, they did not need to have jesus sacrifice his life for them because they were perfect. free of sin and ddeath. after thier act of sin they were imperfect and cast out of the garden thus all there offspring from then forth are born in sin sinners we are becasue we die. thanks. don't fret if you do gods will and repent and accept jesus you will be part of his original plan.
. so keep seeking the truth and it will come to you just don't fight it, accept it and keep growing in knowledge. stay away from mans doctrines and falsehoods or the truth will be hard to find or accept
peacetoall: The word "sin" and the word "Satan" and the word "Devil" were not in the story of the garden of eden in Genesis! Not in the KJV! Bod is on target IMO. TK
Tim its because you choose not to accept. in what you had from previous quotes said nothing of satan or devil, but i did mention sin. so who was the serpent? is satan called the father of the lie? when was death first handed down to man? as you well know scriptures throughout hte bible interact and support other scriptures thats the great thing about the bible it will hold fast to prove things within it so as to fortify the truth of such writings. romans does a fine job with that topic. because adam & eve were the first ones to offically receive death as it states and it is thus created sin law within the world ad given down to all men. satan is the father of the lie and that time in eden in the beginning was the first written lie thus he is the father having born or created the lie. you both argue and ignore thruth which you should be embrassing if it is what you really seek. why ignore or add comments that have no bearing to the truth that is written. romans 5:12,13 completely tells us the origin of sin what it has done to those after adam & eve. some poeple do not want to learn or be taught, but want to be the teachers, they want to save face or don't want to accept that what they know is not all truth. fighting what the scriptures show is counter productive. start praying to god for his holy spirit to help you gain a better understanding of the scriptures and god will help you to stop fighting and ignoring it and your eyes will open.
peace2all: In reading the post you wrote I truly did not feel peace from your words. Maybe I read it wrong.
To say I do not accept satan or the devil or sin is probably pretty close to true! I do not accept lies, untruth or beliefs that would separate me from the source of creation, Allah or God the indescribable force of life.
I made a statement of truth that those words are not in the KJV Bible in the Garden of Eden. Maybe you should at least look up the word "serpent" and see if it is described as the devil or satan.
Adam and Eve did not receive death until after they had chosen to believe or partake of death. They chose!
I am still searching for the truth from God about sin! If you know it like you said you do please clue me in.Did you know that the word sin was used twice in Gen in the first 18chapters and maybe the entire book of Gen.
If sin is an action that we do then how can we be born in sin?
If sin is a belief in something that seemingly separates us from God then a baby still could not be born into a belief that he is unable to choose.
If sin is a mistaken belief by mankind that anything we do could possibly separate us from a God who is everywhere, would be a more likely choice. Then a child would be born into a sin filled(mistaken of the truth) world, not born into a sinful nature. A persons nature doesn't change from a human being to something else. You can't change the nature of one animal into another type of animal. We were born into a religiously error filled world that taught sin and separation from God which was lies, and un-truth.
If you had known the truth of my 30year endeavor(20years by myself with no church affiliation) to learn the truth of God, I don't believe you would have hurt my feelings by saying "some people do not want to learn or be taught" and I attempt to be "counter productive" and more.
God Bless you and yours, TK
i said nothing hurtful, mean or hateful. whether satan was or spoke through the serpent is not important of any basis for the topic. you are right they chose , they chose to act against gods will and thus the law of sin entered into the world and it thus could be charged. satan is the father of the lie when he lied to eve. the verse i provided details all you need to know of the topic that was discussed. theres nothing to be confused about. i just stated you choose not to read or want to accept it for its truth. again i said born in sin! not that we are sin. what d oyuo possibly get from that scripture! its says it all. you know my point you can read the bible you know what it says and i am saying what it says. so for you to be hung up on were sin born of sin or inclined to sin or it part of our nature or wahtever has no bearing on what it says in the bible and its wht i have pointed out. we were given death from eve & adams sinful act of disobeying and it has now made us all sinners as it says in the bible thus we are given death and sickness etc. why are you trying do dispute it on such trivial se
lf interpretations. try this who care what was said before now. read the scripture romans 5:12,13 – if yuo can't tell me that what i said about sin being handed down(inherited) to use as i was saying to BD who will not accept that then yuor not wanting to accept it. sin entered into the world and death thru sin and death spread to all for all had sinned. thats what i have been saying. if it did not continue (handed down) inherited) whatever you wanna call it to this day then we would be free of death. but we do and it did so. just as through the disobedience of one man many will be constituted sinners, likewise also through jesus many will be constituted rightoues. point made that either way things are handed through(down)inherited transfered . etc through a single act. you cannot say then it was there act and they are not use and we therefore can;t possibly be tht way. well its right there plain and simple. bible mentions satan,sin all over it and for you to deny it is your choice but the truth is there if its in your heart.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,05:27) Hi BD,
To fellowship with the Father and the Son of God you must abide in the teachings.[2jn.9]
Adding to them your own words and removing what offends you makes that rather unlikely.
But you are not becoming a martyr here just because others call you on your wily ways.
2 John
5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning:that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.What other doctrine and command do you add then the ones Jesus gave us?
Matthew 22: (King James Version)
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
That is the Doctrine of Christ which is the Doctrine he delivered from God.
Hi BD,
Jesus reminded those under the Law of the OT commands.
And John reminded those in Christ of their new commandment.Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,05:49) Quote (peace2all @ Nov. 20 2009,05:25) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 20 2009,05:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,04:59) Hi BD,
No. If you knew the Spirit of Christ you would hear him in Paul.
Actually my last post was not debating what Paul was saying it was simply to show who Paul was speaking of preaching another Jesus or Gospel and I provided the scripture because many people use that scripture inappropriately to argue against for instance the Quran but the fact is Paul was talking about the same Disciples that Jesus approved of.
BD you don't show or privide anyting useful from what ive seen so far. you switch to off topics and continue to go nowhere with no points 90% of the time except when you just say people are wrong or yuo disagree. you then put up scriptures and question out of thin are talking about other things not in discussion. good luck. thanks
Maybe you should read my posts a little more carefully.What don't you understand?
yuo so go off topic and not answer or support anything. you have said that god is jesus then you say that you know god wouldnt do something, how do you know! then you say man was not immortal but mortal and why was there a tree of life. all in the topic of sin being handed down to all me nthrough there act of disobedience. none of which defutes or has anything to do with that topic. read roman 5:12,13 it tells you what the topic was. you don't care and go off topic and want it to go that way. so lets say they were perfect but were mortal and had to eat the fruit to stay alive forever and sick free. that has nothign to do wit hteh passage and topic of once they disobeyed sin was then law and it entered into the world and given to all men for all men are now deemned sinners. that would have no bearing on the topic of sin and it being started then and handed down or continued to this day frpm them and thats waht the topicstarted pout as and you keep changong and avoiding nad going off topic and not being able to scriptual show yuor standing on that matter. you cannot teach me anything for yuo hold back the truth and do not accept. you say you worship jesus as your god , so good luck to youQuote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,06:05) Hi BD,
Jesus reminded those under the Law of the OT commands.
And John reminded those in Christ of their new commandment.
"Love one another"That is the doctrine, so why do you make so many other restrictions?
Hi BD,
Seek ye first the kingdom of God is another.
The commands of Christ apply to his followers but do not relate to those who follow Mohammed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,06:39) Hi BD,
Seek ye first the kingdom of God is another.
The commands of Christ apply to his followers but do not relate to those who follow Mohammed.
I thought you said Christ was anointed by God?That would mean whatever he says applies to all people, right?
BTW, Muhammad was a follower of Christ too and Christ was a follower of Moses keeping the Law of Moses.
Hi BD,
No his mission was to Israel and he answered many questions they asked him about the Law which was still in effect.Follow Jesus not those who falsely claim to be following him. If they were they would not be offering to improve on his teachings.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,06:55) Hi BD,
No his mission was to Israel and he answered many questions they asked him about the Law which was still in effect.Follow Jesus not those who falsely claim to be following him. If they were they would not be offering to improve on his teachings.
hats of to you nickQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 19 2009,23:47) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 19 2009,22:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2009,15:04) Hi BD,
Your god is not our God.
Your teachings are not our teachings.
You offer a strange god and we abhor strange gods.
Are all Jesuses the same Jesus?Are all Anointed Ones the same Anointed Ones?
2 Corinthians 11:4(KJV) reads:
Quote For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Just to be clear:2 Corinthians 11:2-5 (English Standard Version)
2For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since(A) I betrothed you to one husband,(B) to present you© as a pure virgin to Christ. 3But I am afraid that(D) as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts(E) will be led astray from a(F) sincere and(G) pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and(H) proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept(I) a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5Indeed, I consider that(J) I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.Paul was speaking about the disciples that knew Jesus and calling that another Jesus because Paul taught what they did not to who they did not.
I would say Paul is speaking of doctrine as he and other state the same thing in other places with other words.I conclude that these so called super-apostles were speaking a false teaching and claiming they had more authority than Paul.
I was using that scripture to point out that despite many of us perhaps traveling down the wrong path we are here as student to find the truth we have mislaid or to confirm the truth we know.
God will guide us true if we seek his kingdom and his righteousness.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,06:55) Hi BD,
No his mission was to Israel and he answered many questions they asked him about the Law which was still in effect.Follow Jesus not those who falsely claim to be following him. If they were they would not be offering to improve on his teachings.
You mean like Paul?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,10:43) Hi BD,
You cannot understand Paul without the Spirit of Christ.
Seek the light
i've given up on here, from what i read from most people must not be reading the greek & hebrew scriptures. they claim to worship jesus as thier god or just refute scriptures for what they say and do there best to lead astray. they wish not to enlighten others or themselves. good luck to all . i have 7 different greek & hebrew translated bibles. nkjv,kjv,nwt,tev,niv,cev,rsv . i have read scriptures and compared them one from another – their message in all are the same and no other conclusion can one come from reading one over another. there is no reason for a person to use that as an excuse. you either want to learn and have better understanding of the bible in matters that can be shown otherwise or you don't really care with a whole heart about the message and ones obligations to be in gods kingdom. for those that don't, the path wide and spacious traveled by many leads to destruction.Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 20 2009,10:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 19 2009,23:47) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 19 2009,22:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2009,15:04) Hi BD,
Your god is not our God.
Your teachings are not our teachings.
You offer a strange god and we abhor strange gods.
Are all Jesuses the same Jesus?Are all Anointed Ones the same Anointed Ones?
2 Corinthians 11:4(KJV) reads:
Quote For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Just to be clear:2 Corinthians 11:2-5 (English Standard Version)
2For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since(A) I betrothed you to one husband,(B) to present you© as a pure virgin to Christ. 3But I am afraid that(D) as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts(E) will be led astray from a(F) sincere and(G) pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and(H) proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept(I) a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 5Indeed, I consider that(J) I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.Paul was speaking about the disciples that knew Jesus and calling that another Jesus because Paul taught what they did not to who they did not.
I would say Paul is speaking of doctrine as he and other state the same thing in other places with other words.I conclude that these so called super-apostles were speaking a false teaching and claiming they had more authority than Paul.
I was using that scripture to point out that despite many of us perhaps traveling down the wrong path we are here as student to find the truth we have mislaid or to confirm the truth we know.
God will guide us true if we seek his kingdom and his righteousness.
I understand but Paul was talking about Peter and those disciples for a fact and it wasn't the first time.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,10:43) Hi BD,
You cannot understand Paul without the Spirit of Christ.
Seek the light
I asked like Paul? Did he offer more tha what Jesus taught directly?Was what he taught of The Holy Soirit and was he the last Prophet?
Hi BD,
The super apostles were not the twelve.The apostles of Jesus were humble men who worked in the guidance of the Spirit.
Look around the world now and you will see similar grand men dressed in white suits enamored with power but adrift of God's will.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 20 2009,11:24) Hi BD,
The super apostles were not the twelve.The apostles of Jesus were humble men who worked in the guidance of the Spirit.
Look around the world now and you will see similar grand men dressed in white suits enamored with power but adrift of God's will.
Are you challenging me on these scriptures of who Paul was talking about? I can clearly prove you wrong and quickly, do you challenge or concede?
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