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To say that you are better than another believer or to call them foolish, deceivers, and the like.
Also, judging by what fruits? We have his writings and what others said about him. You can't say for certain what manner of man he was, so I think it is not wise to judge the man harshly.Judge what he has written by all means. We have that record.
Hi t8,
from wikipedia
“Origen ( /ˈɒrɪdʒən/; Greek: Ὠριγένης Ōrigénēs), or Origen Adamantius (184/185 – 253/254),[1] was an early Christian Alexandrian scholar and theologian, and one of the most distinguished writers of the early Church. As early as the fourth century, his orthodoxy was suspect, largely because he believed in the pre-existence and apokatastasis, or universal reconciliation, ideas acknowledged to be beyond the pale of Christianity.[2] Today he is generally regarded as one of the Church Fathers.[3][4]Origen excelled in multiple branches of theological scholarship, including textual criticism, biblical interpretation, philosophical theology, preaching, and spirituality. Some of his teachings, however, quickly became controversial. Notably, he frequently referred to his hypothesis of the pre-existence of souls. As in the beginning all intelligent beings were united to God, Origen also held out the possibility, though he did not assert so definitively, that in the end all beings, perhaps even the arch-fiend Satan,[5] would be reconciled to God in what is called the apokatastasis “
More from WP.
“Origen, allegedly trained in the school of Clement and by his father, has long been considered essentially a Platonist with occasional traces of Stoic philosophy. Mark J Edwards has argued that many of Origen's positions are more properly Aristotelian than strictly Platonic (for instance, his philosophical anthropology). Nonetheless, he was thus a pronounced idealist, as one regarding all things temporal and material as insignificant and indifferent, the only real and eternal things being comprised in the idea. He therefore regards as the purely ideal center of this spiritual and eternal world, God, the pure reason, whose creative powers call into being the world with matter as the necessary substratum.
Origen's cosmology is complicated and controverted, but he seems to have held to a hypothesis of the preexistence of souls, before the world we know was created by God, God created a great number of spiritual intelligences. At first devoted to the contemplation and love of their creator, almost all of these intelligences eventually grew bored of contemplating God, their love for him cooling off. Those whose love for God diminished the most became demons. Those whose love diminished moderately became human souls, eventually to be incarnated in fleshly bodies. Those whose love diminished the least became angels. One, however, who remained perfectly devoted to God became, through love, one with the Word (Logos) of God. The Logos eventually took flesh and was born of the Virgin Mary, becoming the God-man Jesus Christ. The diverse conditions in which human beings are born is actually dependent upon what their souls did in this pre-existent state. Thus what seems unfair, some being born poor and others wealthy, some sick and others healthy, and so forth, is, Origen insists, actually in a by-product of the free-will of souls. “
And he rebuked GNOSTICS?
More from WP
“The activity of the Logos was conceived by Origen in Platonic fashion, as the world soul, wherein God manifested his omnipotence. His first creative act was the divine spirit, as an independent existence; and partial reflexes of the Logos were the created rational beings, who, as they had to revert to the perfect God as their background, must likewise be perfect; yet their perfection, unlike in kind with that of God, the Logos, and the divine spirit, had to be attained. The freedom of the will is an essential fact of the reason, notwithstanding the foreknowledge of God. The Logos, eternally creative, forms an endless series of finite, comprehensible worlds, which are mutually alternative. Combining the Stoic doctrine of a universe without beginning with the Biblical doctrine of the beginning and the end of the world, he conceived of the visible world as the stages of an eternal cosmic process, affording also an explanation of the diversity of human fortunes, rewards, and punishments. The material world, which at first had no place in this eternal spiritual progression, was due to the fall of the spirits from God, the first being the serpent, who was imprisoned in matter and body. The ultimate aim of God in the creation of matter out of nothing was not punishment, but the upraising of the fallen spirits. Man's accidental being is rooted in transitory matter, but his higher nature is formed in the image of the Creator. The soul is divided into the rational and the irrational, the latter being material and transitory, while the former, incorporeal and immaterial, possesses freedom of the will and the power to reascend to purer life. The strong ethical import of this cosmic process can not remain unnoticed. The return to original being through divine reason is the object of the entire cosmic process. Through the worlds which follow each other in eternal succession, the spirits are able to return to Paradise. God so ordered the universe that all individual acts work together toward one cosmic end which culminates in himself. Likewise as to Origen's anthropology, man conceived in the image of God is able by imitating God in good works to become like God, if he first recognizes his own weakness and trusts all to the divine goodness. He is aided by guardian angels, but more especially by the Logos who operates through saints and prophets in proportion to the constitution of these and man's capacity.
He brought greek concepts into God's truth.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2012,21:26) Hi,
In a sense greek logic watered down and thus destroyed the simple truths of scripture.
Nyour ignorance grow Evey day ,you become more and more as the pharisees
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2012,21:01) Hi t8,
from wikipedia
“Origen ( /ˈɒrɪdʒən/; Greek: Ὠριγένης Ōrigénēs), or Origen Adamantius (184/185 – 253/254),[1] was an early Christian Alexandrian scholar and theologian, and one of the most distinguished writers of the early Church. As early as the fourth century, his orthodoxy was suspect, largely because he believed in the pre-existence and apokatastasis, or universal reconciliation, ideas acknowledged to be beyond the pale of Christianity.[2] Today he is generally regarded as one of the Church Fathers.[3][4]Origen excelled in multiple branches of theological scholarship, including textual criticism, biblical interpretation, philosophical theology, preaching, and spirituality. Some of his teachings, however, quickly became controversial. Notably, he frequently referred to his hypothesis of the pre-existence of souls. As in the beginning all intelligent beings were united to God, Origen also held out the possibility, though he did not assert so definitively, that in the end all beings, perhaps even the arch-fiend Satan,[5] would be reconciled to God in what is called the apokatastasis “
Nso you would not like him .because is preexistence believe
but he was right ,and you are wrongQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2012,21:26) Hi,
In a sense greek logic watered down and thus destroyed the simple truths of scripture.
N Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2012,17:39) Hi T,
So you would follow this man and his greek “wisdom”?
NI would listen to You,If only you would have a spark of truth ,what you do not have ,seems
but MY Lord and his father are my guides to eternal live ,were they plant the truth that were I seek it out ,
Just because the truth is not you main concern you try to force others to see what you see and that is not much ,
refusing to believe God and his son ,messengers would be fatal to most
to appreciate a true diamond ,you have to see it in all his faces ,and God words his my diamond
Quote (terraricca @ June 01 2012,19:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2012,17:39) Hi T,
So you would follow this man and his greek “wisdom”?
NI would listen to you ,If only you would have a spark of truth ,what you do not have ,seems
but MY Lord and his father are my guides to eternal live ,were they plant the truth that were I seek it out ,
Just because the truth is not you main concern you try to force others to see what you see and that is not much ,
refusing to believe God and his son ,messengers would be fatal to most
to appreciate a true diamond ,you have to see it in all his faces ,and God words his my diamond
NTruth means truth
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2012,21:43) Hi,
Speculations ruled from this time of apostasy.
Ntheir is no speculations ,the rules are simple ;the only thing anyone as to do is listen and obey;search and find;
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
fairly simple;;
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.now you can argue on the words he said as you do but this then is NOT BELIEVING IN THE SON OF GOD,
if a servant always argues with his master each time he tells him something ,that servant would not be welcome to stay in his house .
that servant would show competition for the position of the master it self,and so the master as no alternative ,only to let him go work for someone else.
MT 12:30 “ He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
Quote Speculations ruled from this time of apostasy. sorry but so I totally disagree with you.
truth is in your heart and mind;not in a time period,knowledge can vary but the love for God has nothing the do with time,and much knowledge
Quote from Wikipedia:
Origen excelled in multiple branches of theological scholarship, including textual criticism, biblical interpretation, philosophical theology, preaching, and spirituality. Some of his teachings, however, quickly became controversial. Notably, he frequently referred to his hypothesis of the pre-existence of souls. As in the beginning all intelligent beings were united to God, Origen also held out the possibility, though he did not assert so definitively, that in the end all beings, perhaps even the arch-fiend Satan,[5] would be reconciled to God in what is called the apokatastasis (“restitution”). Origen's views on the Trinity, in which he saw the Son of God as subordinate to God the Father, became controversial during the Arian controversy of the fourth century, though a subordinationist view was common among the ante-Nicene Fathers. A group who came to be known as Origenists, and who firmly believed in the preexistence of souls and the apokatastasis, were declared anathema in the 6th century. This condemnation is attributed to the Second Ecumenical Council of Constantinople, though it does not appear in the council's official minutes.[6] Few scholars today believe that Origen should be blamed, as he commonly was in the past, for tentatively putting forward hypotheses, later judged heretical, on certain philosophical problems during a time when Christian doctrine was somewhat unclear on said problems.
Origen was hypothesising by the sound of it.
I also have to admit that it is possible, because we are not taught that we our souls definitely did not exist with the Father beforehand.If scripture is not definate on a subject, then it remains open to speculation and hypothesis. And the fact that it is not definite probably means that it is not important for us to know the truth about that matter now.
Of course there may well be scripture that proves this point is true or not. Not aware of such at this minute.
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