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Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 05 2006,16:09) Dear Woutlaw, You say God is not a man. Is Jesus God? Was Jesus a man?
As for your 1John 5:7, I believe it should be there and it fits perfectly in God's Word. It does not contradict, but is a piece that fits perfect with the rest of scripture. Many claim it was put there to reinforce the trinity doctrine. I do not believe in the trinity doctrine and can easily explain it away using the Word of God. So don't get hung up on my using of the KJ. What sets it apart is it's infallibility in the doctrine of Christ. All who are against the KJ take the words I post by the unction of the Holy Spirit with a grain of salt. Yet, not can disprove them. For God is truth and men are liars.
Hi H,
Jesus is “the only begotten God'[Jn 1.18 NASB]
so he is not the God Who begat him is he?Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 05 2006,16:09) Dear Woutlaw, You say God is not a man. Is Jesus God? Was Jesus a man?
As for your 1John 5:7, I believe it should be there and it fits perfectly in God's Word. It does not contradict, but is a piece that fits perfect with the rest of scripture. Many claim it was put there to reinforce the trinity doctrine. I do not believe in the trinity doctrine and can easily explain it away using the Word of God. So don't get hung up on my using of the KJ. What sets it apart is it's infallibility in the doctrine of Christ. All who are against the KJ take the words I post by the unction of the Holy Spirit with a grain of salt. Yet, not can disprove them. For God is truth and men are liars.
heiscomingintheclouds,#1 I didn't say “God is not a man”, I was simply quoting scripture to prove to a lot of stiff necked people that the KJV isn't infallible. You said you believe that 1John 5:7 belongs in the bible. Brother it doesn' matter what you believe the fact is that the passage doesn't appear in any of the manuscripts before the 1500's. What reason would the translators have to lie about the passage not being in any of the manuscripts before the 1500's.
#2, I'm not hung upon you using the KJV, as I've stated before, I use the KJV almost exclusively. I like it, I think it is a good translation. If you think it is infallible that is your perogative, I don't love you any less. But I've heard many people going as far as saying that the KJV is the only true translation, and that all others are from Satan. I've even heard some say that using anything other than the KJV can jepordize your salvation!!!!! What a load of crap. Whether the KJV is infallible or not is simply a matter of opinion.
Quote (Woutlaw @ Aug. 05 2006,23:33) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 05 2006,16:09) Dear Woutlaw, You say God is not a man. Is Jesus God? Was Jesus a man?
As for your 1John 5:7, I believe it should be there and it fits perfectly in God's Word. It does not contradict, but is a piece that fits perfect with the rest of scripture. Many claim it was put there to reinforce the trinity doctrine. I do not believe in the trinity doctrine and can easily explain it away using the Word of God. So don't get hung up on my using of the KJ. What sets it apart is it's infallibility in the doctrine of Christ. All who are against the KJ take the words I post by the unction of the Holy Spirit with a grain of salt. Yet, not can disprove them. For God is truth and men are liars.
heiscomingintheclouds,#1 I didn't say “God is not a man”, I was simply quoting scripture to prove to a lot of stiff necked people that the KJV isn't infallible. You said you believe that 1John 5:7 belongs in the bible. Brother it doesn' matter what you believe the fact is that the passage doesn't appear in any of the manuscripts before the 1500's. What reason would the translators have to lie about the passage not being in any of the manuscripts before the 1500's.
#2, I'm not hung upon you using the KJV, as I've stated before, I use the KJV almost exclusively. I like it, I think it is a good translation. If you think it is infallible that is your perogative, I don't love you any less. But I've heard many people going as far as saying that the KJV is the only true translation, and that all others are from Satan. I've even heard some say that using anything other than the KJV can jepordize your salvation!!!!! What a load of crap. Whether the KJV is infallible or not is simply a matter of opinion.
Dear Woutlaw,You were there and seen the 1500 manuscripts that the translators used when doing the translation? Is this how you know that 1 John 5:7 is not suppose to be there?
Maybe if you read the post on the Son of Perdition, it might give you so insight.
Hi H,
Do you believe everything you teach is of the Holy Spirit?You must be uniquely blessed if that is true for we all admit we are weak impure vessels for that Spirit and none of us denies that our spirit also contributes to what we say.
Do you believe that you are a special instrument that differs from us?
Is it wise to make such assumptions about ourselves?
Is it not better to also gain from the Spiritual reflections of others?
As for what can put one's salvation in peril? I would say to compromise the Word of God. To add or take away from the Word of God. To believe the words of men over the Word of God. These things will put one's salvation in peril.
If a man loves God with all his heart, mind and soul, he will know the things of God. He will know the path of righteousness. He will walk the straight and narrow. Yet, these things cannot be done, unless this man has Christ in him. For it is impossible for a man to live a life without sin. That is why God sent his Son. And it is our faith in the Son that helps us in our war against sin.
Let God be true and all men are liars. If you ask me if I live a life without sin. I will tell you no.
You ask me if what I put on is of the unction of the Holy Spirit? I believe it is. If proven wrong, by doctrine, I would be the first to ask for forgiveness. I am a man and am capable of the mistakes of a man in the flesh. It is for this reason I pray for a fresh coming of the blood of Christ daily. I believe what gets posted is by the unction of the Holy Spirit. For I am not that smart. I am just an average man. It is he who is in me that gives me this wonderful understanding in his Word. And I am so, so undeserving.
Hi H,
Thank you for that reassurance.
It is one thing to say we have an infallible version of the bible, which has met a little skepticism here.It is quite another to say we are personally infallibly guided also by the Holy Spirit as the combined force of these statements would be to dangerously claim personal infallibility and the lack of a need for learning and self monitoring on our path.
I now understand you would make no such assertions.
There was only one who walked the earth that could make such a claim and even he said that only God the Father deserved to be called good. It is in him who we must trust. I will just try to do the best with what the Lord has given me as I am sure you will do also. As for assertions, all they will do is assert that one can be made into a fool. And I have been known to stick my foot in my mouth a time or two by making assertions. That is why it is good to have brothers and sisters in the Lord. For we are many that make up one body. So the hand watches over the foot and the foot over the toes.
One thing I can assert on though is my love for my brothers and sisters in the Lord and you Nick. Don't think I don't appreciate things you say and write. There are somethings you have written I show the fruit of wisdom and I thank you.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 04 2006,22:39) Hi Typsrm,
Should Peter or Paul or Philip have refused baptism to those whom God had shown were ready while they checked with the legal or religious authorities??
In matters relating to God we serve God and if we are imprisoned or die for that obedience we count it joy.
Nick,Of course they should not have. God forbid that we should hearken to flesh when God, the God of the spirits of all flesh (Num. 16:22; Num. 27:16), has spoken. Although human government has been institued by God (Gen. 9:6; Rom. 13; 1 Pet. 2: 13-17, etc), we are to obey God rather than man (Ex. 1:15-17; Ex. 1:22-2:1-3; 1 Kings 22:13,14; 2 Kings 17:24-18:7; Esther 3:1-3; Esther 4:6-16; Dan. 3:8-18; Dan. 6:4-10; Amos 7:10-17; Matt. 15:1-9; Acts 4:1-6,13-20; Acts 5:12-29,40-42; Gal. 2:1-5; Heb. 11:23-27; etc). Why do you ask such a question?
Hi H,
I post questions to make others think more deeply and come up with better conclusions.
I prefer the Spirit to teach rather than offering my meagre portions.Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 04 2006,23:04) Hi Trprsn, I really appreciate the change in the tenor over your last post. Much better! You may
not think that you are puffed up, but that is exactly how you came across
here. The law this, God's commandments that, I'm an ordained minister the other.
Re-read your last post and cite how many times you included the words “mercy”
“compassion”, “grace”, “longsuffering”, “forgiving”. See these are all attributes of
God as well but they are scarce in your vocabulary.It wasn't until I wrote what I did, albeit, “personal” as it was that you FINALLY said:
1.) I would never want to try to justify myself
2.) None of this has anything to do with me
3.) I need Jesus as much as anybody
You spent far too much time exalting how well you follow God's Word but little space
to show how well you are following God's Son. I look at a person's actual fruits, not
a self written description of how lucious they supposedly are.
See all of that beautiful humility was missing from your previous posts. Therefore
as it has been restored, I have done my job in exhorting you to fine works.
God be praised! So just how are you reaching out to those who are trapped in doctrinal
darkness as you never mentioned that?I agree with the tithing issue too. If were were still under the
Law we would be paying THREE tithes including one to the temple priests. Also it
was a hin of oil and a sack of flour as I can recall.Bless you and please try to keep it real from now on, o.k.?
Semmy
Semmy,My most recent post that you refer to was written in the same course of thought as the previous posts were. If I came across as being puffed up, I certainly didn't mean to. I have nothing to be puffed up about. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him (1 Cor. 8:1-3). It is love that causes us to perceive and recognize properly the things that we attain through knowledge. The truth must be spoken in love. No truth, no love. No love, no truth. Just because the actual words mercy, compasssion, grace, etc. were not mentioned does not mean my posts lacked them. If that is the case, there are many instances where Jesus, the apostles and the prophets would be guilty of lacking those attributes. The reason I mentioned the three items about myself that you cited above, was to let you know that this has nothing to do with me or even you for that matter.
You have not exhorted me to good works, unless you consider an explanation to be good works. Which is what I gave. As Paul stated ” But [as for me personally] it matters very little to me that I should be put on trial by you [on this point], and that you or any other human tribunal should investigate and question and cross-question me. I do not even put myself on trial and judge myself. I am not conscious of anything against myself, and I feel blameless; but I am not vindicated and acquitted before God on that account. It is the Lord [Himself] Who examines and judges me. So do not make any hasty or premature judgments before the time when the Lord comes [again], for He will both bring to light the secret things that are [now hidden] in darkness and disclose and expose the [secret] aims (motives and purposes) of hearts. Then every man will receive his [due] commendation from God.” (1 Cor. 4:3-5)
How am I reaching out to those that are trapped in doctrinal darkness? First, by preaching and teaching the Word. Not only in our fellowship, but in many others. I have also begin to put in place an Acts 15 type of meeting with the ministers in my area. I am also involved in a stage production which is about to go national. It is entitled “Bastards in the Pulpit”. You may check it out here: http://www.bastardsinthepulpit.com/index.php?go=int0
I play myself in the production. It deals with the corruption that is so rampant in the pulpit and is setting many free, especially those who have made merchandise in the church. I am doing all that I know to do and am constantly seeking God for my next assignment.Quote (Woutlaw @ Aug. 05 2006,02:33) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 04 2006,19:44) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 04 2006,16:39) Consider what you may, but consider this as well. No place does it say that if you do not speak in tongues that you have not recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Your zealousness in wonderful, but to teach things that are contrary to the word of God is not wonderful. I have battled with some who were under the belief that is was with water that saves us. This is rediculous. Now you are making the claim that one must be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved. This is rediculous. It is by faith we are saved. It is the free gift from God. It comes by believing in Christ. We are born again by asking him for forgiveness of our sins. He cleanses us with his blood. He resides in our hearts. There is no other name that can save us. Can you recieve the Holy Spirit without asking Christ into your heart and be forgiven, sanctified, made holy, frist. No. The Holy Spirit of God cannot come into an unclean vessel. It must first be made Holy. And it is made Holy through the blood of Christ.
Jesus said, no man can come to the Father, but through me.
H,I will respond to this post and the one below. After that I am through with this particular discussion with you as I have plenty of other things to do (as I'm sure you do as well) than go back and forth over these issues. I'd rather be a good steward of the time that God has allotted me here on earth. Regardless of what I say, you will not be persuaded anyway. All things will be disclosed when the Judge comes.
First of all, when did I ever say anything about tongues? You assumed something, correct? What was your assumption based upon? Is it wrong to assume? If the answer is yes. Then you were wrong to assume that I was referring to tongues when I did not mention the subject one time in any of my posts. (Think about the profoundness of what I just said).
I do have a zeal of God, but it is according to the knowledge of God (Rom. 10:2,3). I never said water in and of itself saved anybody. It is faith that saves. Faith unfeigned is the prerequisite. Jesus said “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned (Mark 16:16). So even if a person is baptized, they are not saved unless they believe (Acts 8:36,37). True faith produces obedience as the writer mentions in Hebrews 11. Do you think Noah and his family would have been saved if he would not have prepared the ark (Heb. 11:7; 1Pet. 3:21)? Those of old obtained a good report through their faith that caused them to do something (Heb. 11:2). Everything we receive from God, we receive by faith. Why you think He tells us in Is. 55:1 “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price”? What do we buy with? We buy with our faith. What money is in the natural economy, faith is in the spiritual. Without faith we need not expect to receive anything from God (Heb. 11:6; James 1:5-7; Mark 5:34; Luke 5:20; Luke 18:42; Mark 10:52; Matt. 9:22; Heb. 4:2).
Amen typrsn,Faith and Obedience go hand in hand. I've been saying it all along how important obedience is. I challenge anyone to look at the men of the Bible that God used, and you will see a few common things. #1, they believed God, #2 they obeyed God. Noah did, Abraham did, Moses did, Elijah did, what makes us think we're any different.
WATER SAVES NO ONE. It's not about the water folks, it's all about the heart. God is simply looking for hearts who believe and obey.
To give you an example of what i'm trying to say, let's look at Tithing. Why do we tithe or give? Folks God doesn't need your money. We serve a God who can raise up children of Abraham out of stones. Now if God can do that, believe me, he doesn't need our money. So why do we tithe or give? I believe God uses outward actions to teach us inward qualities or characteristics. God calls us to tithe because he's trying to make you a giver like he is.
I believe the same can be applied to water baptism. God is using this vehicle to teach us about obedience which is key in having a relationship with God Almighty. I've said it before and I'll say it again, ANYONE WHO DARE SAYS THAT OBEYING GOD ISN'T IMPORTANT, IS FILLED WITH A DECIEVING SPIRIT.
Shalom
Woutlaw,Thanks for your post. However, I would like to say that teaching the church today to tithe is wrong. I taught that doctrine for 14 years until about 3 years ago when God lead me to research the subject extensively. After extensive research I came to the conclusion that mentioned above.
I believe the church is first made up of only true believers, spread throughout many denominations (including those with no “church” affiliation), they being those who have a relationship with God.
God's church in a city is the body of true believers within that city (spread about though they may be). The time I believe is rapidly approaching when God will call his people out to be the spotless bride.
Only my opinion
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 07 2006,10:06) I believe the church is first made up of only true believers, spread throughout many denominations (including those with no “church” affiliation), they being those who have a relationship with God. God's church in a city is the body of true believers within that city (spread about though they may be). The time I believe is rapidly approaching when God will call his people out to be the spotless bride.
Only my opinion
seekingtruth,I believe your opinion to be true. Jesus said “Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.” (Rev. 3:4). Paul said “Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Tim. 2:19), But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His (Rom. 8:9).
Although it is an opinion, I don't see anything wrong (scriptually) with your post.
Jesus said where two or more are gathered in my name, I am there also. I believe this is the church.
Hi,
The church is the body of Christ, saved and born again of water and the Spirit they form an assembly of believers in the kingdom.Heb 12
” 18For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,19And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: “
And God spoke from heaven to say Jesus IS HIS SON and commanded men to listen to him.
Instead they deny he is the Son and listen to each other.Hello H
I checked out your church web site. The answers to several questions assumes that God needed evolution to complete the creation of man. How can this, evolution, be taught by a Christian Church?
Hi Seeking the Truth
I agree with you. However, I recently began going to the Jehovah's Witness Church. I am studying with them now. What I know for sure is that you can not make it alone. When we are admonished not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. It is a serious admonishment which we need to heed. Remember the Devil goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. Lions look for the sheep (or prey) on the edges of the flock. We need to be closely associated with brethern of like mind. Where ever we may find them. They are indeed sprinkled among the tares. Tares that they trust are as they are. Tares they have trusted, because some are so called pastors, teachers, preachers, fathers, mothers, brothers, and leaders that are well trusted. I trust must be only in God. Christ will return at a time when it will be like the days of Noah and Lot. Only a few, in relationship to the numbers, trusted God, feared Him and obeyed Him. Only a few heeded the warning. Find your brethren and encourage them, in whatever meeting hall that they are in. You cant do your part sitting at home alone. For me, I determined that the JW's were the only group where each member is involved in preaching the gospel. They dont just go to church, shout, PAY THEIR TITHES, and expect the preachers (most interested in increasing their church membership, buildings, and pocket books) to do the good works with THEIR TITHES. Just so they can be blessed financially. And thats the goal today, “Being Blessed Financially”.
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