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Hi,
Is the church a visible denomination that alone claims the full truth and
one that is dependant on one version of the bible?
Or is that not just the way of man still wanting to be in control?
Is that not worldly and political catholicism by another name?If the church was not important, the apostles would not have been sanctioned by the Lord to establish it in the first place. When the church was established, they were in many different cities, but they all shared the same doctrine. It was long after the apostles were gone, that man began to corrupt the church with this paganistic ideas and rituals that were not in accordance with the Holy Writ. They changed the interpretation and practices that had been done in the early church. Much of the blame can be put upon the era in which Greek philosophy and education was prospering. Man began to complicate the simplicity that God had given his Word. It is this same era that spawned the trinity doctrine which is unsound and is responsible for corrupting the faith for centuries.
Yet, God has always kept a remnant of his believers throughout history. Those who would not compromise his Word. Many died for the survival of the faith and their deaths were not in vain. For we are blessed today with his Word intact.
As for the church, many seeing that it had become corrupt began to set up churches in secret. It is the same today in many countries. Even those who are democratic, because of the corruption of the church, have created their own churches. It is done by the will of God.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 11 2006,18:43) The bible tells us that God is the same yesterday, today and
forever.
The same should be of his church. The apostles set the churches up
and though there were several, they all subscribed to the same
doctrine. Jesus gave a discription of what a believer would look
like by signs that follow them. If you belong to a church that does
not bare these signs, chances are, the church is not of God.Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned.16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name
shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly
thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and
they shall recover.Now, I have been asked what church I worship in. It is called
Maranatha Chapel. It is non denominational and the only doctrine of
this church is the Authorized King James bible. Nothing more or
nothing less. We believe that it is the infallible word of God and
we can prove it. If we were to take the matter to court, the King
James could be proven as God's infallible word. There is more
evidence to prove this book as his word because, it is his word.Now, if one has a question about scripture, it can be found in the
KJ. It is perfect in the doctrine of the faith. All pieces support
eachother. Many claim there are contradictions, but it is not so
when it comes to matters which pertain to the faith.The men who translated the KJ, had many more transcripts to work
with then translators after the KJ. The men who translated the KJ
did not have any hidden agendas, nor were they bias as to bringing
this work into print. Their only driving intention was to try to get
it right or as close to the original as they could. The majority of
translations after were tainted with evolutionism and spiritualism.
For if the original is corrupt, the rest will be corrupt. So if a
translator is bias in the belief of evolution and spiritualism, his
translation will be corrupt.There was a great man of God, who's name was Tindale, who gave his
life for the gospel. If one does not believe that this was a man of
God, then how can one know God. God used this man, and there is no
doubt in my mind he did, and the proof is his own translation. When
the translators had completed the work of the translation into
English, it was almost identical to that of Tindale. I believe the
day that Tindale was put to death for the faith, just as Jesus stood
at the right side of the Father, he did the same for Tindale.If the devil can make people not believe that this is the infallible
word of God, he can create confusion and steal the souls of men, and
he did. Men have been believing his lies since the garden and they
will continue to believe his lies to their graves.
H,I agree with everything you stated, except what you stated about the KJV. God's infallible Word is the KJV? How can that be when the KJV is less than 400 years old? How can you prove that a 400 year old translation is infallible. I believe God's Word is infallible, but not the KJV or any other translation. If your preference (as is mine) is the KJV, great. Just be careful about making such claims about any translation.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 12 2006,23:46) Dear rclamb, Do you agree with John 3. To be born again, one must first be born once. Jesus was not speaking of being born again in the flesh, but being born again in the spirit.
For all men are born dead in spirit because of Adam's sin. Unless they are born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So many confuse this scripture with water baptism. They have built entire doctrines on this scripture.
H,The best way to interpret the Word is with the Word. According to Jn. 1:13, blood is associated with the will of flesh and the will of man, not water. There are too many scriptures that indicate that the water Jesus was referring to was water baptism in His name. I'm sure you're familiar with them all so I won't post them. Understanding the water in Jn. 3:5 to refer to water baptism does not cause one to build a doctrine of water baptism. Water baptism in His name as a doctrine is established in other places in scripture.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 13 2006,02:48) Nick, I have posted scriptures before to you. Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Nick, when a man realizes he is a sinner and believes that Jesus died on the cross for his sins so that he can be forgiven, his heart becomes convicted by the Holy Spirit and he repents of his sins and is saved, born again. This is what it is all about.
H,One of the principles of interpreting scripture is not to isolate a passage so that other passages regarding the subject mentioned are not considered. Genuine faith produces obedience. You started this thread essentially talking about how man has gotten away from the Word and you seem to be promoting the very thing that you post against. Have you been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and have you received His Spirit?
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 15 2006,03:21) Until you are born again, your questions will go unanswered Nick. With all of your heart, ask Jesus into your heart. Confess your sins. Don't hold anything back. He loves you Nick. He does not want you to perish. Unless you believe with all of your heart, you will not be saved.
H,Are you implying that because Nick disagrees with your interpretation of what it means to be born of water that he is not saved? Do you believe that I am not saved simply because I disagree with you on this? I can't speak for Nick, but I received the Holy Ghost just like the saints did on the day of Pentecost and at Cornelius' house and was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ like they were. Have you?
Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,17:17) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 12 2006,23:46) Dear rclamb, Do you agree with John 3. To be born again, one must first be born once. Jesus was not speaking of being born again in the flesh, but being born again in the spirit.
For all men are born dead in spirit because of Adam's sin. Unless they are born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So many confuse this scripture with water baptism. They have built entire doctrines on this scripture.
H,The best way to interpret the Word is with the Word. According to Jn. 1:13, blood is associated with the will of flesh and the will of man, not water. There are too many scriptures that indicate that the water Jesus was referring to was water baptism in His name. I'm sure you're familiar with them all so I won't post them. Understanding the water in Jn. 3:5 to refer to water baptism does not cause one to build a doctrine of water baptism. Water baptism in His name as a doctrine is established in other places in scripture.
Hi Typrsn,Water baptism is important, if it weren't it wouldn't be in the word of God. But tell me if a person were to confess with his mouth and believe in his heart that Jesus died for his sons and was resurrected but through no fault of his own could not get to water to be baptized and die without being baptized do you believe this person to be saved?
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 01 2006,18:52) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,17:17) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 12 2006,23:46) Dear rclamb, Do you agree with John 3. To be born again, one must first be born once. Jesus was not speaking of being born again in the flesh, but being born again in the spirit.
For all men are born dead in spirit because of Adam's sin. Unless they are born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So many confuse this scripture with water baptism. They have built entire doctrines on this scripture.
H,The best way to interpret the Word is with the Word. According to Jn. 1:13, blood is associated with the will of flesh and the will of man, not water. There are too many scriptures that indicate that the water Jesus was referring to was water baptism in His name. I'm sure you're familiar with them all so I won't post them. Understanding the water in Jn. 3:5 to refer to water baptism does not cause one to build a doctrine of water baptism. Water baptism in His name as a doctrine is established in other places in scripture.
Hi Typrsn,Water baptism is important, if it weren't it wouldn't be in the word of God. But tell me if a person were to confess with his mouth and believe in his heart that Jesus died for his sons and was resurrected but through no fault of his own could not get to water to be baptized and die without being baptized do you believe this person to be saved?
kenrch,I knew someone would ask that question. That seems to be the “trump card” of people on the other side of what the Word says about baptism. That would be the exception and not the rule. We could come up with all kinds of what ifs, but none of them will nullify what the Word says. The rule is baptism.
I do believe the person would be saved in a situation like you mentioned, but not by confession alone. I understand that Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Rom. 4:3). Paul also says that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His (Rom. 8:9).
The fact of the matter is…if we love Him we will keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous. Faith worketh by love.
Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,19:20) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 01 2006,18:52) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,17:17) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 12 2006,23:46) Dear rclamb, Do you agree with John 3. To be born again, one must first be born once. Jesus was not speaking of being born again in the flesh, but being born again in the spirit.
For all men are born dead in spirit because of Adam's sin. Unless they are born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So many confuse this scripture with water baptism. They have built entire doctrines on this scripture.
H,The best way to interpret the Word is with the Word. According to Jn. 1:13, blood is associated with the will of flesh and the will of man, not water. There are too many scriptures that indicate that the water Jesus was referring to was water baptism in His name. I'm sure you're familiar with them all so I won't post them. Understanding the water in Jn. 3:5 to refer to water baptism does not cause one to build a doctrine of water baptism. Water baptism in His name as a doctrine is established in other places in scripture.
Hi Typrsn,Water baptism is important, if it weren't it wouldn't be in the word of God. But tell me if a person were to confess with his mouth and believe in his heart that Jesus died for his sons and was resurrected but through no fault of his own could not get to water to be baptized and die without being baptized do you believe this person to be saved?
kenrch,I knew someone would ask that question. That seems to be the “trump card” of people on the other side of what the Word says about baptism. That would be the exception and not the rule. We could come up with all kinds of what ifs, but none of them will nullify what the Word says. The rule is baptism.
I do believe the person would be saved in a situation like you mentioned, but not by confession alone. I understand that Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Rom. 4:3). Paul also says that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His (Rom. 8:9).
The fact of the matter is…if we love Him we will keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous. Faith worketh by love.
Typrsn,I agree it is the exception and not the rule. Over and over I have stated this.
You don't think that this happens? That someone in this world would accept Jesus and the have something happen to prevent him from being baptized.
The problem I have with Nick is that according to his teaching God will forbid His child salvation because of water.
Do you agree?
Yes faith worketh by love. Is this Love to destroy your child because he couldn't get to water?
Hi typ:
I have only read what's posted on this page and agree with what you had to say in response to H on the KJV translation (as well as to Kenrch), and HOW you said it, about not isolating verses to the exclusion of others. Very helpful, and in fact, I believe it is what Jesus did when he told the Pharisees that God called them Gods to whom the word of the Lord came… (John 10:35). We are likely to leave scripture unbroken if we follow that advise. Welcome, BTW!
I had been undecided as to the meaning of being born of water in John 3 (though I fully agreed w/ baptism), but the amniotic fld thing had me… I have now decided that it must not refer to natural birth but to baptism based on the following:
1. Every human birth as far as we know, involves amniotic fluid. But not every human will be baptized. Baptism involves a spiritual decision that many would rather not make.
2. It is for sure that every human birth involves amniotic fluid. But not everyone born would want to make a decision to be born by the spirit of God by yielding to the will and rule of God.
It seems to me therefore that Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about these things and the choices and decisions involved. There's hardly any need to choose or decide on how one is born into the world or how one dies. We can't control that really. But the rest, worshiping God in truth and in spirit, recognizing that he sent Jesus to save us and living in love and godly devotion to that end, are things that require our coorperation with God, and so through this backwards way, the cobweb was cleared for me.
Jesus was born by Mary, conceived through the power of the Spirit, but he made a decision and went to John the Baptist to fulfill this requirement. To me that is powerful and conclusive. John also preached repentence and preparing the way for Christ, baptized all who received that message. We can conclude that those did not need to be baptized by water anymore because Jesus didn't need to be baptized anymore.
Jesus was then baptized by the Spirit, I believe, following these things and he entered into the wilderness and his ministry began in power after that. And then we have examples of others who were baptized in the spirit before they were water baptized.
I strongly agree that there are many “what ifs” that we can think of (and people can be natural worriers about things that never happen), but those are the exceptions and not the rule.
Let as many as have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior also be baptized into his death and resurrection, according to the scriptures.Quote (Cubes @ Aug. 01 2006,22:27) Hi typ: I have only read what's posted on this page and agree with what you had to say in response to H on the KJV translation (as well as to Kenrch), and HOW you said it, about not isolating verses to the exclusion of others. Very helpful, and in fact, I believe it is what Jesus did when he told the Pharisees that God called them Gods to whom the word of the Lord came… (John 10:35). We are likely to leave scripture unbroken if we follow that advise. Welcome, BTW!
I had been undecided as to the meaning of being born of water in John 3 (though I fully agreed w/ baptism), but the amniotic fld thing had me… I have now decided that it must not refer to natural birth but to baptism based on the following:
1. Every human birth as far as we know, involves amniotic fluid. But not every human will be baptized. Baptism involves a spiritual decision that many would rather not make.
2. It is for sure that every human birth involves amniotic fluid. But not everyone born would want to make a decision to be born by the spirit of God by yielding to the will and rule of God.
It seems to me therefore that Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about these things and the choices and decisions involved. There's hardly any need to choose or decide on how one is born into the world or how one dies. We can't control that really. But the rest, worshiping God in truth and in spirit, recognizing that he sent Jesus to save us and living in love and godly devotion to that end, are things that require our coorperation with God, and so through this backwards way, the cobweb was cleared for me.
Jesus was born by Mary, conceived through the power of the Spirit, but he made a decision and went to John the Baptist to fulfill this requirement. To me that is powerful and conclusive. John also preached repentence and preparing the way for Christ, baptized all who received that message. We can conclude that those did not need to be baptized by water anymore because Jesus didn't need to be baptized anymore.
Jesus was then baptized by the Spirit, I believe, following these things and he entered into the wilderness and his ministry began in power after that. And then we have examples of others who were baptized in the spirit before they were water baptized.
I strongly agree that there are many “what ifs” that we can think of (and people can be natural worriers about things that never happen), but those are the exceptions and not the rule.
Let as many as have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior also be baptized into his death and resurrection, according to the scriptures.
Cubes,Paul is speaking to the believers about unbelievers. Who are ignorant of the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Is it righteous for anyone to abort a child? If you being evil would love your child then How Much More Would Your Father.
Do you agree with Nick's teaching that Our father would deny a child salvation because he could not get to water?
Please don'r dance around the question. If Nick won't stand for his teaching may be you will.
I rebuke any for abandoning the church or the thought of it. To do such a thing is not of God. The Lord established the church and no man will put it assunder. It is the works of satan that has corrupted the faith and turned it into paganistic religions. Yet, the bride of Christ has always survived. And will survive till the coming of the Lord. For she is the one who's lamp will not run out of oil and will be burning brightly at the sign of the bridegroom.
To say that anything other then faith saves a man is to steal God's free gift of grace. And for shame on any who make such a claim. Let the Lord speak to their hearts, for it is by grace we are saved. It is by believing in God's Son with all of our hearts and if anyone does not know this, then the truth is not in them.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 01 2006,21:53) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,19:20) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 01 2006,18:52) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,17:17) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 12 2006,23:46) Dear rclamb, Do you agree with John 3. To be born again, one must first be born once. Jesus was not speaking of being born again in the flesh, but being born again in the spirit.
For all men are born dead in spirit because of Adam's sin. Unless they are born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So many confuse this scripture with water baptism. They have built entire doctrines on this scripture.
H,The best way to interpret the Word is with the Word. According to Jn. 1:13, blood is associated with the will of flesh and the will of man, not water. There are too many scriptures that indicate that the water Jesus was referring to was water baptism in His name. I'm sure you're familiar with them all so I won't post them. Understanding the water in Jn. 3:5 to refer to water baptism does not cause one to build a doctrine of water baptism. Water baptism in His name as a doctrine is established in other places in scripture.
Hi Typrsn,Water baptism is important, if it weren't it wouldn't be in the word of God. But tell me if a person were to confess with his mouth and believe in his heart that Jesus died for his sons and was resurrected but through no fault of his own could not get to water to be baptized and die without being baptized do you believe this person to be saved?
kenrch,I knew someone would ask that question. That seems to be the “trump card” of people on the other side of what the Word says about baptism. That would be the exception and not the rule. We could come up with all kinds of what ifs, but none of them will nullify what the Word says. The rule is baptism.
I do believe the person would be saved in a situation like you mentioned, but not by confession alone. I understand that Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Rom. 4:3). Paul also says that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His (Rom. 8:9).
The fact of the matter is…if we love Him we will keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous. Faith worketh by love.
Typrsn,I agree it is the exception and not the rule. Over and over I have stated this.
You don't think that this happens? That someone in this world would accept Jesus and the have something happen to prevent him from being baptized.
The problem I have with Nick is that according to his teaching God will forbid His child salvation because of water.
Do you agree?
Yes faith worketh by love. Is this Love to destroy your child because he couldn't get to water?
kenrch,I'm sure it does happen, although I'm not sure how often. As I mentioned, I believe that a situation like this would not cause some one to miss glory. However, I do believe that if a person does not have His Spirit, he or she is none of His. My belief is based upon Rom. 8:9.
We just have to be sure that we baptize people immediately as is recorded in the Word to avoid this as much as possible.
Dear typrsn,
What do you think happens when a man is saved, born again? Don't you believe that Jesus comes and lives in the heart of that man? Can you say if Christ is in that man, that the spirit is not in him? God forbid.
When we are born again, we have Christ in our hearts.
Col. 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Col. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as faith.
Col. 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Amen Sultan & Nick,
H, what you said about more transcripts being available to KJV translators is not true.
Since many of the revisions of the KJV Bible, there have been the discovery of the
Dead Sea Scrolls and many other reliable codices older than what was used to translate the KJV.They are also not infallible and even REMOVED a portion of scripture to support the trinity doctrine.
This is what they did:
The Rotherham, NIV and most other translations taken from the original manuscripts say:
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the agels in heaven, NOR THE SON,
but ONLY THE FATHER.” [Mark 13:32]The translators of the KJV REMOVED NOR THE SON from this verse because they could not explain it nor did it agree with their theology. They believed that Jesus was a co-equal part of the trinity so he would naturally know everything the Father does. Wrong-o! They were later caught and put it back in. Does that sound as if they had the TRUTH of God's word at heart?
The Bible offers dire warnings in the end of the Book of Revelation to those who would add to or TAKE AWAY from God's Word. Obviously they thought that didn't somehow apply to them.
So you don't build your faith on the foundation of one Bible translation. You build it on
Christ and allow the holy spirit which HE GIVES US, to teach us all things.I have many translations. The best are the literal ones like Youngs but that's just my preference.
If you like the KJV, try reading Bullinger's Companion Bible which has the KJV right in it.
It gives you a lot of Hebrew and Greek word studies to bring you closer to what the original
manuscripts intended.Actually, I think your heart is in the right place, H, but putting THAT much faith in a Bible
translation instead of the One who authored it is a mistake in my opinion.Bless you much,
Semmy
Quote (Cubes @ Aug. 01 2006,22:27) Hi typ: I have only read what's posted on this page and agree with what you had to say in response to H on the KJV translation (as well as to Kenrch), and HOW you said it, about not isolating verses to the exclusion of others. Very helpful, and in fact, I believe it is what Jesus did when he told the Pharisees that God called them Gods to whom the word of the Lord came… (John 10:35). We are likely to leave scripture unbroken if we follow that advise. Welcome, BTW!
I had been undecided as to the meaning of being born of water in John 3 (though I fully agreed w/ baptism), but the amniotic fld thing had me… I have now decided that it must not refer to natural birth but to baptism based on the following:
1. Every human birth as far as we know, involves amniotic fluid. But not every human will be baptized. Baptism involves a spiritual decision that many would rather not make.
2. It is for sure that every human birth involves amniotic fluid. But not everyone born would want to make a decision to be born by the spirit of God by yielding to the will and rule of God.
It seems to me therefore that Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about these things and the choices and decisions involved. There's hardly any need to choose or decide on how one is born into the world or how one dies. We can't control that really. But the rest, worshiping God in truth and in spirit, recognizing that he sent Jesus to save us and living in love and godly devotion to that end, are things that require our coorperation with God, and so through this backwards way, the cobweb was cleared for me.
Jesus was born by Mary, conceived through the power of the Spirit, but he made a decision and went to John the Baptist to fulfill this requirement. To me that is powerful and conclusive. John also preached repentence and preparing the way for Christ, baptized all who received that message. We can conclude that those did not need to be baptized by water anymore because Jesus didn't need to be baptized anymore.
Jesus was then baptized by the Spirit, I believe, following these things and he entered into the wilderness and his ministry began in power after that. And then we have examples of others who were baptized in the spirit before they were water baptized.
I strongly agree that there are many “what ifs” that we can think of (and people can be natural worriers about things that never happen), but those are the exceptions and not the rule.
Let as many as have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior also be baptized into his death and resurrection, according to the scriptures.
Cubes,I agree with what you've posted but need clarification on the following: “John also preached repentence and preparing the way for Christ, baptized all who received that message. We can conclude that those did not need to be baptized by water anymore because Jesus didn't need to be baptized anymore.”
Are you saying that those that John baptized unto repentance before Messiah's passion didn't need to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus Christ? If so, that is not what the Word says according to Acts 19.
Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 02 2006,16:25) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 01 2006,21:53) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,19:20) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 01 2006,18:52) Quote (typrsn @ Aug. 01 2006,17:17) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ June 12 2006,23:46) Dear rclamb, Do you agree with John 3. To be born again, one must first be born once. Jesus was not speaking of being born again in the flesh, but being born again in the spirit.
For all men are born dead in spirit because of Adam's sin. Unless they are born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
So many confuse this scripture with water baptism. They have built entire doctrines on this scripture.
H,The best way to interpret the Word is with the Word. According to Jn. 1:13, blood is associated with the will of flesh and the will of man, not water. There are too many scriptures that indicate that the water Jesus was referring to was water baptism in His name. I'm sure you're familiar with them all so I won't post them. Understanding the water in Jn. 3:5 to refer to water baptism does not cause one to build a doctrine of water baptism. Water baptism in His name as a doctrine is established in other places in scripture.
Hi Typrsn,Water baptism is important, if it weren't it wouldn't be in the word of God. But tell me if a person were to confess with his mouth and believe in his heart that Jesus died for his sons and was resurrected but through no fault of his own could not get to water to be baptized and die without being baptized do you believe this person to be saved?
kenrch,I knew someone would ask that question. That seems to be the “trump card” of people on the other side of what the Word says about baptism. That would be the exception and not the rule. We could come up with all kinds of what ifs, but none of them will nullify what the Word says. The rule is baptism.
I do believe the person would be saved in a situation like you mentioned, but not by confession alone. I understand that Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness (Rom. 4:3). Paul also says that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His (Rom. 8:9).
The fact of the matter is…if we love Him we will keep His commandments and His commandments are not grievous. Faith worketh by love.
Typrsn,I agree it is the exception and not the rule. Over and over I have stated this.
You don't think that this happens? That someone in this world would accept Jesus and the have something happen to prevent him from being baptized.
The problem I have with Nick is that according to his teaching God will forbid His child salvation because of water.
Do you agree?
Yes faith worketh by love. Is this Love to destroy your child because he couldn't get to water?
kenrch,I'm sure it does happen, although I'm not sure how often. As I mentioned, I believe that a situation like this would not cause some one to miss glory. However, I do believe that if a person does not have His Spirit, he or she is none of His. My belief is based upon Rom. 8:9.
We just have to be sure that we baptize people immediately as is recorded in the Word to avoid this as much as possible.
Typrsn,Thank you! That's what I've been trying to tell Nick.
Believe it or not it was a statement similar to yours that started this whole thing.
“I believe that a situation like this would not cause some one to miss glory”.
I can't just let a teacher say my God is a murderer. That's what his teaching says. It's nothing personal, if you were teaching that I would try to reason with you. But Nick will have none of that.
Thanks for standing up for what you believe
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