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Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2011,06:12) Hi Tim, I see your willing to explore your beliefs in light of what Scripture teaches.
I hope you will also explore your beliefs of: “righteousness” really means 'belief in' and “works” really means 'faith' .According to Tim: “doeth” really means 'thinketh'.
Here are is another instances where the same word is used…
John 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to “do” the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.Was Jesus worried about staying in his right standing with God as you suggest
or was Jesus instead speaking of his DOING what was right as I suggest?
There are more, but lets keep it simple for those who are reading.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: I have explored my beliefs in righteousness.Rom.3:21….the righteousness of God which is by faith…believing!!
Rom.9:30….even the righteousness which is by faith….! believing!!
Rom.10:10…for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness!!
Gal.5:5….wait for the hope of righteousness by faith….believing!
Ph'p.3:9….the righteousness which is of God by faith….believing!
Titus3:4&5….love of God our Saviour toward man appeared..v5..not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us….
There are tons more scriptures if you need to read them to know that righteousness is by “faith” in Gods gift. There is no such thing as a “work or deed” to attain righteousness. Jesus paid the price and gave it to us. The work is over.
The other claim you pointed out was an intentional deceptive lie! I never said “doeth” means “thinketh”! There was no mistake about what you wrote. You purposely wrote that line to deceive other readers, not me. I know purposeful deception when I see it.
I told you in two different posts what the greek word that was translated as “doeth” really meant: to agree,…to stay in…to lodge in…to continue in….or dwell in!Jesus is the one who did the works of God for our righteousness! Jesus did the “works” ……”FOR US”….so that we don't have to! Do you really read the Bible? Or just commentaries! TK
Hi Tim,
Faith means “belief in” and
righteousness means “doing” what is right.Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him(believes in), and worketh righteousness(doing), is accepted with him. (Acts 10:34-35)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: That is your truth! Those who believe in their works for righteousness will stand in judgment of their works. Those whose name is written in the Book of Life, have already received their judgment in full. They have eaten from the tree of life, Jesus. They partake of no evil and have no sin! They have accepted and believed in the total salvation found in Jesus. Jesus did the work for mankind.
Jesus provided the way to God the Father through the spirit words he received of God. Jesus washed away our tears, cleansed our hearts from all evil and sin, made us worthy, gave us the righteousness of God and perfected those that believe for all time. Those that accept that gift by believing it is true are instantly judged as perfect unto God.
Salvation in its totality is by faith in Jesus. Faith that Jesus did all the works necessary, was crowned King and Lord and proceeded to give his perfect sacrifice to all that accept by faith. Jesus finished the work unto God. Not one thing did he leave undone!
I have made Jesus lord of my life. In exchange for my life/attention/devotion Jesus gave me his perfection. So it is for everyone, God is no respecter of persons. All are called by faith, some will come by faith. Some unto judgment by works for their salvation. This is the choice of mankind.All who believe the gift of God through Jesus, are perfect without blemish unto God as long as they hold to that faith/believing. If a deceiver comes along and tells them dark lies and uses word trickery, with cunning deception, don't hear the lies. They will say that you must do this, do that or don't do this or don't do that because God will be angry or that is sin or this is sin turn away. If they say there is anything that one must “perform” to continue his perfection OTHER THAN FAITH IN CHRIST, and they believe that deception/lie, they have fallen back into sin/separation from God.
Doing anything such as a deed or work of sorts will not get you cleansed nor in favor with God. Only faith in the work of Jesus.
A man filled with the love of God in the Holy Spirit that recognizes his son of God abilities to administer to a dying world the healing love of God will do the power works of his Father by faith. He will recognize that he has no abilities apart from his Father but in and with his Father he can do all things. Faith works and deeds from the heart, will then proceed from a faith man!
This is the “gospel”/good news of the New Testament! Believe it! IMO, TK
Ed: Why would you purposely lie about a word that you can look up as well as I can or anybody else?
You said,….
Quote ….righteousness means “doing” what is right…. That is not true!!
“Righteousness” is a condition created by God through Jesus. You can't do a “righteous” thing! Righteousness is a created condition of man with God, made possible through Jesus.
Strong exhaustive says…Righteousness: equitable, justification, judgment, statute, ordinance, decision…!
Righteousness is a position between man and God, created by Jesus, that gives one who believes, judgment with equitable justification of Gods statutes and ordinances. Perfect standing with God. Right standing with God.
Some men dig for truth and some men will do whatever is necessary to defend their personal truth from the true light! TK
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2011,08:40) Hi Tim, Faith means “belief in” and
righteousness means “doing” what is right.Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him(believes in), and worketh righteousness(doing), is accepted with him. (Acts 10:34-35)
Hi Tim,(Webster) Righteousness:
1: acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2: morally right or justifiable(G1343) Righteousness: equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification — righteousness.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: Come on man! Are you just trying to jack me up a bit? You gave “definitions of righteousness”! I have been talking about how to get or receive righteousness. I've been talking all along about God's righteousness. Righteousness in Christ (not mans morality). I'm not talking about “community” acceptance or character in actions, all judgments of this earthly walk!
The righteousness of God is what I am talking about. Perfect standing with God. Perfection having been created by God, in me by the words/spirit through Jesus!! Not created by the things I do or how good I look to the people around me, that,s for the religious hierarchy.
I must ask, how can one be free from guilt or sin if he is being judged by his actions in accord with moral law? Moral law is Mans ideas of morality. Like religion is mans ideas of God. Do we care at all about mans ideas pertaining to God? No.
Like most religious people you will go along each day acting a part, as if in a play or on stage, your the lead roll of “look at my life” and you figure everybody is looking at you to see your works, deeds, and Godliness by what you do or how you act. So apart from God completely you make a show on the corner, folding of the hands, long loud prayers with many words of importance, you speak a certain religious way and stay very calm and oh so loving in demeanor. RELIGIOUS-DUNG! But this is what a works oriented person does because he thinks he is responsible to influence those around him. I get queasy just writing about it!
I am a nobody from nowhere with nothing any better, lessor or different than the masses. When I came to God through Jesus he cleansed me inside my heart and mind. He called me worthy, made me whole, created my eternal life, forgave me all things, made me perfect in his eyes and set me free in the earth to freely express and live in the love he gave me. His promise is to do the same for whosoever will come and receive so I want to tell the world, total perfection and absolute freedom are yours through Christ Jesus from God. Accept love, give love, be loved! Love is all you need. IMO, TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 14 2011,21:25) Ed: I have been talking about how to get or receive righteousness.
TK
Hi Tim,When one is born again, his actions turn from unrighteousness (doing what is wrong) to righteous behavior.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 13 2011,21:30) Hi Tim, You keep saying things OVER AND OVER AGAIN that I do not profess.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (ftk @ Oct. 14 2011,21:25) Ed: Like most religious people you will go along each day acting a part, as if in a play or on stage, your the lead roll of “look at my life” and you figure everybody is looking at you to see your works, deeds, and Godliness by what you do or how you act. So apart from God completely you make a show on the corner, folding of the hands, long loud prayers with many words of importance, you speak a certain religious way and stay very calm and oh so loving in demeanor. RELIGIOUS-DUNG! But this is what a works oriented person does because he thinks he is responsible to influence those around him. I get queasy just writing about it!
IMO, TK
Hi Tim,Why are you making up more 'stuff' about me that isn't true.
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 14 2011,21:25) I get queasy just writing about it! Are you starting to realize bearing false is wrong then?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: Wow! So untrue! When a man is in the process of “being born again” it has NOTHING to do with his work and deeds, nice or un-nice! Being born again is re-creating ones belief system. Taking out of the mind the old, religious thoughts, doctrines, and beliefs in order to give room for the new truth from God through Jesus. The spirit of God had arrived in Jesus.
The spirit of God would first wash the worshiper's mind of all dark, unfruitful doctrine of trying to acquire perfection by the things one does or doesn't do. Then the spirit of God says you are washed clean, ordained, perfected and anointed from on high as complete sons of God to do the true work of God. Teach the truth which casts out devils/doctrines, and give total healing of Gods spirit to all who come by faith believing the power/spirit is God doing the works. TK
Ed: It is your very words that bear witness against you! Not me! When you say something like……
Quote
When one is born again, (his actions) turn from unrighteousness (doing what is wrong) to righteous behavior.You have spoken error. Actions neither create righteousness unto God nor do they destroy righteousness unto God. Only believing God cleansed you and united you to him in faith are you righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Righteousness is by faith, not works/deeds/actions, lest a man could boast that he did right or wrong things that gave or took away his righteousness. Faith is trust in God. Actions are performed by man to feed his ego. When a man believes his “actions” have been good, he feels close to God. When his actions have been what he believes is “evil” he feels bad, separated from God, needing forgiveness, totally denying the payment of Jesus. Mostly that religious man is boasting (in his heart), look at me, don't you see how good I do, and don't you just know how much God must love me? and if you just act like me we will just all please God and get to heaven! RELIGIOUS LIES FROM THE DARKNESS OF HELL!! TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 15 2011,21:23) Ed: Wow! So untrue! When a man is in the process of “being born again” it has NOTHING to do with his work and deeds, nice or un-nice!
TK
Hi Tim,Being born again is something that happens to us instantaneously. (see 1Cor.15:52-54)
Our growth in the spirit, however, is something that “IS” a possess. (see 1Cor.13:11)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (ftk @ Oct. 15 2011,21:48) Ed: It is your very words that bear witness against you! Not me! When you say something like…… Quote
When one is born again, (his actions) turn from unrighteousness (doing what is wrong) to righteous behavior.You have spoken error. Actions neither create righteousness unto God nor do they destroy righteousness unto God.
TK
Hi Tim,FALSE! …our actions prove what kind of fruit we bear.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.God bless
Ed J (Matt.7:15-16)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: I agree that when you are born again it is an instant transformation of mental intentions, but one is a baby at that moment and then he or she continues in growing spiritually by the words of God through Jesus unto a perfect man.
ACTIONS ARE NOT FRUIT! The fruit of a man has always been the words of his lips. All through the prophets and Psalms and the New Testament what is produced from the inside of man is expressed in words from his mouth. False prophets teach error. Darkness is untruth. What comes from the inward parts of a man is what he believes about God.
Gal.5:22….the fruit of the spirit is love….
Heb.12:11….it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of…(not works)….
Heb.13:15….the fruit of our lips giving thanks…..
Actions come mostly from instant thoughts/intentions, created from words spoken to you, that are a response to something accusing you, in the moment or edifying you in the moment. Actions are a response from mental input/stimulus. Actions do not prove fruit nor do they have seed within to reproduce fruit. Fruit grows from a seed in the heart of man, planted from Gods words through Jesus. The fruit from the lips is, seed/words from God, to be passed on to germinate another mans garden/heart to the truth from God! Physical actions and reactions are of earthly origin. Spiritual words are spiritual fruit with spiritual seeds from God to be planted and bring forth more spiritual fruit. IMO. TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 15 2011,23:28) Ed: I agree that when you are born again it is an instant transformation of mental intentions, but one is a baby at that moment and then he or she continues in growing spiritually by the words of God through Jesus unto a perfect man. ACTIONS ARE NOT FRUIT! The fruit of a man has always been the words of his lips. All through the prophets and Psalms and the New Testament what is produced from the inside of man is expressed in words from his mouth. False prophets teach error. Darkness is untruth. What comes from the inward parts of a man is what he believes about God.
Gal.5:22….the fruit of the spirit is love….
Heb.12:11….it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of…(not works)….
Heb.13:15….the fruit of our lips giving thanks…..
Actions come mostly from instant thoughts/intentions, created from words spoken to you, that are a response to something accusing you, in the moment or edifying you in the moment. Actions are a response from mental input/stimulus. Actions do not prove fruit nor do they have seed within to reproduce fruit. Fruit grows from a seed in the heart of man, planted from Gods words through Jesus. The fruit from the lips is, seed/words from God, to be passed on to germinate another mans garden/heart to the truth from God! Physical actions and reactions are of earthly origin. Spiritual words are spiritual fruit with spiritual seeds from God to be planted and bring forth more spiritual fruit. IMO. TK
Greetings ftk ….. If you would be so kind as to let me stick my two cents in …. It appears to me that what you are discussing is not being born again but repentance or changing the way you live….To be imparted with Gods spirit through Baptizm does not make you born again…. No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of the spirit…That means as i see it … we will be spirit beings and it will be made possible through a rebirth eg born again…The sum total of my argument is simply this ….you must first experience physical death, before by virtue of the promissed resurection you can be Born Again in spirit so as to be part of the promised kingdom of God…..Quote (ftk @ Oct. 15 2011,23:28) Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 15 2011,21:49) Hi Tim, Being born again is something that happens to us instantaneously. (see 1Cor.15:52-54)
Our growth in the spirit, however, is something that “IS” a possess. (see 1Cor.13:11)
Ed: I agree that when you are born again it is an instant transformation of mental intentions,
but one is a baby at that moment and then he or she continues in growing spiritually by the words of God through Jesus unto a perfect man.IMO. TK
Hi Tim,I'm glad you see eye to eye with me here.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (theodorej @ Oct. 15 2011,23:43) Quote (ftk @ Oct. 15 2011,23:28) Ed: I agree that when you are born again it is an instant transformation of mental intentions, but one is a baby at that moment and then he or she continues in growing spiritually by the words of God through Jesus unto a perfect man. ACTIONS ARE NOT FRUIT! The fruit of a man has always been the words of his lips. All through the prophets and Psalms and the New Testament what is produced from the inside of man is expressed in words from his mouth. False prophets teach error. Darkness is untruth. What comes from the inward parts of a man is what he believes about God.
Gal.5:22….the fruit of the spirit is love….
Heb.12:11….it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of…(not works)….
Heb.13:15….the fruit of our lips giving thanks…..
Actions come mostly from instant thoughts/intentions, created from words spoken to you, that are a response to something accusing you, in the moment or edifying you in the moment. Actions are a response from mental input/stimulus. Actions do not prove fruit nor do they have seed within to reproduce fruit. Fruit grows from a seed in the heart of man, planted from Gods words through Jesus. The fruit from the lips is, seed/words from God, to be passed on to germinate another mans garden/heart to the truth from God! Physical actions and reactions are of earthly origin. Spiritual words are spiritual fruit with spiritual seeds from God to be planted and bring forth more spiritual fruit. IMO. TK
Greetings ftk ….. If you would be so kind as to let me stick my two cents in …. It appears to me that what you are discussing is not being born again but repentance or changing the way you live….To be imparted with Gods spirit through Baptizm does not make you born again…. No one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of the spirit…That means as i see it … we will be spirit beings and it will be made possible through a rebirth eg born again…The sum total of my argument is simply this ….you must first experience physical death, before by virtue of the promissed resurection you can be Born Again in spirit so as to be part of the promised kingdom of God…..
theodore: You are always welcome, I am very thankful that you would take the time.If I may sir,….The Baptism of John was to prep the minds of the people coming out of the old and into the new. Two monumental differences of service to God. I believe the word “Repent” used by John was telling the people that were following the old way of service by physical buildings, sacrifices, rules and rituals of no value to “turn around from the way you are going(to serve God)” the New Covenant is about to be established, spiritually in Christ. The great one is about to arise. The water Baptism also said, by a symbolic picture, here is the death of the old way with rising up fresh and clean to the New Spirit way. The new spirit way is Gods words through Jesus re-creating us into what he says we are. Those who accept the words of Jesus BECOME WHAT THE WORDS SAY WE ARE! Born again to incorruptible life in Christ that cannot be altered or changed. Perfection by faith forever. So symbolically we “died”(like Paul said) and arose from that death(the old way) or were resurrected to new perfect life in Christ Jesus all by faith!
The spirit/words of God are the “Kingdom of God” that dwell within us, NOW! All truth is taught by Jesus in “parables”!
See the picture of the old man dying and being resurrected to a new man, created perfect and pure within where the spirit, God, Jesus all dwell. They make their abode/house of God, Temple of God, Church which is his body all within the believer. Now, not later, we will not need the new birth in heaven. We are the new birth NOW!
God bless you, these are my beliefs as best I can write them. They are my opinions! Thanks for reading, TKtheodorej: I didn't see any response to my post which is ok you are not required. But I can't let go quite yet pertaining to your post. It seems that possibly you believe that there are future events that must take place for the works of Jesus to be completed. Putting off into the future something intended for today could rob a person of all intended effort on the part of God/Jesus/Spirit!
When the end of the (old covenant) came, BC, that was the “end of the religious world order” in my opinion. Then the start of the New Covenant, AD, began to be established. It took about three and a half years to establish by Jesus. The new will of God was testate as long as Jesus was alive. As you would know, a will is testate until it is effectuated at the death of the testator. The fulness of the New covenant was then in force completely. That is the end of the “establishment” of the New Covenant. There is nothing more God or Jesus has to do in the earth, it is finished, fully and complete as far as its creation. The covenant itself is eternal, forever. Its creation is finished and it is fully effective NOW!
I say this because I felt that you might feel that there is more to come on the part of God pertaining to the New final covenant. Today is the day of the lord. This is the day of the lord that was prophesied to come thousands of years earlier. All the prophets prophesied of the great and terrible day of the lord that would come.(Malachi..4:1) Behold the day(light) cometh, that shall burn as an oven…and the proud (haughty, religious, pharisees, saducees and know it all's, [THEIR DOCTRINES]) that “do wickedness” (mans works unto God) will burn up(be destroyed) and leave nothing. (The end of the Old Covenant) Yet this is a great day for those who will accept their perfection from God by faith! And this is a terrible day for those who continue in the law to be perfected or accepted by God. In the great and terrible day of the lord the Sun of righteousness will arise (Malachi 4:2) with healing in his wings! And you shall go forth (in freedom) like calves from the stall…V3 and ye shall tread down the wicked(not wicked men, wicked doctrines) for they(doctrines)shall be ashes under you feet….V5…I shall send Elijah the prophet (John the Baptist) before the coming of the great and terrible day of the lord.
Just some thoughts to ponder and look at that might secure a timetable, equitable to now, to mentally rise up in, not waiting for further developments. With love intended, TK
Quote (ftk @ Oct. 17 2011,22:23) theodorej: I didn't see any response to my post which is ok you are not required. But I can't let go quite yet pertaining to your post. It seems that possibly you believe that there are future events that must take place for the works of Jesus to be completed. Putting off into the future something intended for today could rob a person of all intended effort on the part of God/Jesus/Spirit! When the end of the (old covenant) came, BC, that was the “end of the religious world order” in my opinion. Then the start of the New Covenant, AD, began to be established. It took about three and a half years to establish by Jesus. The new will of God was testate as long as Jesus was alive. As you would know, a will is testate until it is effectuated at the death of the testator. The fulness of the New covenant was then in force completely. That is the end of the “establishment” of the New Covenant. There is nothing more God or Jesus has to do in the earth, it is finished, fully and complete as far as its creation. The covenant itself is eternal, forever. Its creation is finished and it is fully effective NOW!
I say this because I felt that you might feel that there is more to come on the part of God pertaining to the New final covenant. Today is the day of the lord. This is the day of the lord that was prophesied to come thousands of years earlier. All the prophets prophesied of the great and terrible day of the lord that would come.(Malachi..4:1) Behold the day(light) cometh, that shall burn as an oven…and the proud (haughty, religious, pharisees, saducees and know it all's, [THEIR DOCTRINES]) that “do wickedness” (mans works unto God) will burn up(be destroyed) and leave nothing. (The end of the Old Covenant) Yet this is a great day for those who will accept their perfection from God by faith! And this is a terrible day for those who continue in the law to be perfected or accepted by God. In the great and terrible day of the lord the Sun of righteousness will arise (Malachi 4:2) with healing in his wings! And you shall go forth (in freedom) like calves from the stall…V3 and ye shall tread down the wicked(not wicked men, wicked doctrines) for they(doctrines)shall be ashes under you feet….V5…I shall send Elijah the prophet (John the Baptist) before the coming of the great and terrible day of the lord.
Just some thoughts to ponder and look at that might secure a timetable, equitable to now, to mentally rise up in, not waiting for further developments. With love intended, TK
Hi Tim,This is a great day for those who will accept their perfection from God by faith!
And this is a terrible day for those choose instead to continue in a life of sin.Ezekiel 33:10-11 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel;
Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we
pine away in them, how should we then live? Say unto them, As I live, saith
the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the
wicked turn (REPENT) from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your
evil (something Tim does not believe exists) ways; for why will ye die,
O house of Israel? (terrible for those who choose to continue in sin)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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