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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2006,00:48) Hi H,
You say this
“Nicodemus understood it, yet you cannot.”Where is it written that Nicodemus understood?
Did he say so?
Is it recorded anywhere or have you made this up?We should abide in the Word.
Hi H,
Then do not say what you cannot verify.I can verify it. Just because scripture does not say that Nicodemus did not understand for sure the message Jesus was trying to convey does not mean he did not understand. So one is making assumptions if one assumes Nicodemus did not understand. For if the King of glory can not get his message across to those who are of the same spirit, through an explanation as perfect as this, then what man has a chance of ever making it into the Kingdom of heaven?
The message is clear and I believe that even if Nicodemus did not understand at first, once Jesus died and was resurrected, it would have made sense to him at that time beyond all doubt. For even the apostles did not understand fully that Jesus had to die until after his death and resurrection. Only then did they come to complete understanding that with his death, came life to all who believe on him.
Hi H,
You say
“Yet, I believe Nicodemus did. “
Opinion
if stated as opinion
is fine.Neither should you assume I do not agree with you.
He may well have understood.But this is a biblical forum where matters of scripture must be proven before becoming established as fact..
Put it this way. I can see how Nicodemus would not understand prior to Jesus' death and resurrection. Yet, I can't see how he could not understand after Jesus resurrection. So you can take it how you like it. Since it does not say one way or the other, we do not know for sure.
One thing is certain though. The way Jesus explained it to those who are born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, there is only one understanding. The way Jesus intended it to be understood. And it is as plain as the nose on your face.
Hi h,
If you do not seem to grasp the need to be scripturally accurate and verifiable
then how can we expect your derived teachings to be reliably true?We try to be berean and that is all we ask of you.
Nick,
I don't know how much plainer to make it. As I said, there are those who will see it and there are those who will not. Just as the Pharacees and Saducees could not understand or see that Jesus was the Messiah, those who are hardened of heart will not understand God's Word. For they try to understand it with the understanding of the flesh and the Word of God is Spirit. You are the only one whom continues to argue on this posting. The only one. The reason most have such a hard time with this is because they have been indoctrinated by the words of men and the stronghold is hard to break. Yet, not impossible, for all things are possible for those who trust in the Lord.
Hi H,
It is not how plain you make things.
It is also not that all who disagree with you are Pharisees or Sadducees.
Truth is not defined by your understandings
and it would be vanity to think it could be for any of us.It is how the words you speak align with scripture and the Spirit.
Some do
Some don't.Mixed messages is the best I can make of them.
Forgive me if I can't make it more cleared. Although I have a perfect understanding in me, often times when I try to help one understand with typed words, it is difficult. I just ask you be patient with me.
Here is my stand and I believe it is cut and dry. I don't believe there is any other interpretation that goes with this scripture.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that a man had to be reborn in the spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven. And Jesus meant rebirth, plain and simple. Nicodemus understood this part. For he himself verified it when he said can a man climb a second time into his mother's womb and be born. The important word here is second. So he understood that Jesus was talking about rebirth. Nicodemus just didn't understand that Jesus was referring to spiritual rebirth. He thought he was speaking of physical rebirth. That is why he said what he said. Jesus tried to help him understand that even though a man is born in the flesh, he must also be born again in the spirit. That is why Jesus said a man must be born of water and of spirit. Then immediately he said, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
This is the only interpretation for this scripture. It is faithful and true. Now, there are scriptures that speak of water as part of spirit. But this water is not physical, it is spiritual. The water in John is physical. It is why many misunderstand this scripture.
Hi H,
Is it wise to say such things?
” I have a perfect understanding in me,”“This is the only interpretation for this scripture. It is faithful and true”
Of course you perfectly understand your own derivations but that does not go far to tell us they are purely from God does it?
Reflections from here do not seem as bright as you claim
It says what it says. If you claim it says something it does not, then you add to it. Jesus said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit. If that does not say it all, then what does?
Hi H,
But you say
what is born of water
is born of flesh.Water speak of life and purity and cleanliness, not the messy business of birth.
Nick,
That is not the message Jesus is conveying to Nicodemus. Can't you understand that. Because Nicodemus did not understand about spiritual birth, Jesus tried to help him understand that there was more to life then just physical birth and that a man had to be born again in the spirit. Nicodemus, who is of the Pharacess did not understand this. And Jesus himself remarked to that fact that how can he be a Father of Israel and not know these things. Somewhere along the road, Israel had lost touch with the spiritual part of the law and all they could see was the physical. That is why they did not even recognize their own messiah.
So by Jesus using the reference of water and of spirit, followed by the flesh and spirit, he tired to help Nicodemus understand that it was the spiritual part of the man that must be reborn, not the physical. For we are born once in the flesh only and we die. A man was alive once spiritually, but because of sin he became dead, sold unto sin and unless he is reborn in the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. By showing Nicodemus that a man must be born of the physical and the spiritual to enter into the kingdom of God, he was showing him the difference between the two births.
Hi H,
I agree that man must be born from above and that is of the Spirit.
But Jesus said
” 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. “Now your way of interpreting this verse would be
” 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born naturally and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”“Except a man be born naturally”??
God does not waste words.
Nicodemus was born naturally
and so is everyone
so it is an irrelevant statement.No you will have to do better than this.
Nick,
To prove that the water was the flesh birth, Jesus even explained it in more detail. These two verses are one in the same. Just worded diffently for Nicodemus's benefit.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
These mean the same. Water and flesh. Spirit and Spirit.
Water and Spirit
Flesh and SpiritIf they were my words that would be fine. Yet, to claim them as mine would make me a liar. I am here to do one thing and that is the will of the Father. There is nothing more wonderful in this world then to spread the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. To some it will bring life everlasting. To others it will bring offense. It is not hard to see which it brings to you Nick.
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