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HI H,
To have a different understanding of a scripture is not “adding to Scripture”. Even Peter said there are some parts of Paul's writings that are hard to understand.Your views and my views of scripture are not themselves scripture as we are both on a journey towards understanding.
Again I ask you to substantiate your serious charge as I wish to establish if it is true to correct my views and lest it is you who is found to be a false accuser.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 02 2006,17:56) Nick, it is not I who am adding to John 3:3. So who do you suppose I am referring to? John 3:3 is cut and dry. It is the basis of the faith. IT is the milk of the Word. It is a stumblingblock to those who are of a different spirit or not the gospel of Christ, but a litmus test to prove the validity of the stand of a believer in Christ. So if the shoe fits, all I can say it must be yours. Even Nicodemus himself recognized that Jesus was referring to two births. He thought Jesus was talking physical, yet Jesus was speaking spiritual. So don't add to the Word of God, for all who do are in danger of judgement.
Hi H,
No matter if choose to not respond as I forgive you and it is for your sake I ask. You do me no harm if the charges are shown to be groundless anyway. But if they are true I need to be put right so please show me if you can where I have added to what is written.So you say here and correct me if I am wrong
Jn 3 is cut and dry in general understanding?
It is the basis of the faith-salvation by faith alone?.
It is the milk of the Word-meaning your view is the general one?
You say those of the correct Spirit will have the same understanding as yourself.
You say not accepting your view is proof they are deceived?
Agreement with yourself is a litmus test of validity?Nicodemus came to the same understanding as you have???
I am fascinated to see where you cam to know the mind of an unsaved man in Israel 2000 years ago and can only assume you have scriptural proofs of this for us to share.
In the meantime all I can say is that in my years here your views on these verses are fairly unique so your path must be a lonely one and you would perhaps benefit from listening to all the vessels here whose destiny is hoped to be the same as is your hope.
Judging us is not helpful as it is fruit by which we are to be judged by one another, not knowledge which can be vanity, and you do not know my fruit.
Bless you brother.
I agree Nick,
I am not saying heiscomingintheclouds is not correct in his understanding because I think he makes some excellent points.
It is just obvious that two people can read the same passage and see two different meanings. Somebody is correct and somebody is incorrect, however, the incorrect person is not “adding to scripture” he is simply misunderstanding it's meaning. There is a huge difference between those two errors.
If heiscomingintheclouds is not 100% accurate in all of his interpretations of scripture, then following his logic, he is adding to scripture. I know he doesn't believe he is doing that.
We are fallable humans seeking God. Good thing our God is a God of mercy. (the reason I chose my login name)
Dear Mercy,
The Word of God is like a puzzle in a sense or a body. All things serve a purpose that come together that complete the picture or make the body whole. So your assumption on this is incorrect. For if it was as you said, then you could say that man does not add to the Word of God at all. Yet, he has and still does.
What Nick is doing with this scripture is trying to say that the water birth is really spiritual birth. This is not what Jesus is conveying to Nicodemus here and this is not beneficial thinking when it comes to discernment with the rest of scripture. So do I believe he is adding to the Word of God? If he says that the water is not physical birth, but spiritual birth, he is adding. For there are false doctrines built on the belief that spiritual birth is established in water birth. And that is contrary to the Word of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
heiscomingintheclouds,
Do you believe that you infallably interpret scripture? Is every one of your beliefs and understandings 100% accurate?
Because, if you do not, then you have to admit that what you accuse Nick of doing you also do yourself.
That is my only point.
Quote In the meantime all I can say is that in my years here your views on these verses are fairly unique so your path must be a lonely one and you would perhaps benefit from listening to all the vessels here whose destiny is hoped to be the same as is your hope. All throughout the history of man, those who did the will of the Father often walked alone. The list is long. How many do you suppose remained at the side of Jesus as he hung on the cross? Most of the world will not accept the truth, for their love for sin is greater then their love for God. So you can say what you like, and I will continue to do the will of the Father. It is the reason I was sent here.
As for my doctrine, it is solid and unmoving, for it is not mine.
As for you forgiving me Nick, that is wonderful if I am in the wrong, but if I am in the right, it is you who needs the forgiving and that comes from the Father above. So this is the chance you will take. If you have confidence in the doctrine of Nick, do nothing and await the day you stand before your maker. Otherwise, pray for forgiveness now.
Dear Mercy,
No man is infallible. Only Christ is infallible. When I receive an understanding, it is not the man who receives it, but he who is greater then the man. There is no good in me other then the fact that I strive to become less of myself and allow the Lord more room to work through me. It is our selfwill that gets in the way of what is faithful and true. The less we have of our selfwill, the more Christ fills us. The more the Holy Spirit moves in us. The more we put on the mind of Christ. This is what it is all about. This is what walking in the spirit is all about. I read so many on this site saying things of the spirit, yet they don't know what it is to walk in the spirit. That is why we must feast on God's Word. It is the bread of life.
As for the question, am I a sinner. To say I am not would make me a liar. To answer the question, am I a liar, to say I am would be to tell the truth. For it is written.
Romans 3:4 May it never be! Yes, let God be found true, but every man a liar. As it is written, “That you might be justified in your words, and might prevail when you come into judgment.”
Hi H,
You say
“As for my doctrine, it is solid and unmoving, for it is not mine.”If you were to always abide in the Word of God
then you would not need to have your own doctrines
but would be speaking the doctrines of God.Hi H,
You say
“No man is infallible. Only Christ is infallible. When I receive an understanding, it is not the man who receives it, but he who is greater then the man”Are we all like this or are you unique in this regard?
Do you have superior giftings to others in Christ?
Have you never had to learn from others?Just because many disagree with you is not proof you are correct as you are not the way. You remain, like us, an imperfect vessel that receives truth so, like us, there is still a human wisdom component to whatever you say.
This is a difference in disagreeing and disproving. Many disagree with the Word of truth, the Word of God for the truth is not in them. Yet, they cannot disprove it or tear it down. It is like a doubledged sword and will cut to the quick.
HiH,
Fine words but they do not address the questions.If we are in Christ then we ought to more united than divided and the hand should be helping the foot and not striking it.
No man in Christ has completely unique giftings as all complement one another in the promotion of the kingdom.
I do not think you are that well equipped to judge in whom the truth rests.
Nick, as far as I can tell, the only one that seems to have the most difficulty is what is being posted by me is you. And you cannot disprove it, so either you should believe it or leave it.
Hi H,
I do not aim to disprove anything to you because I believe the Spirit is the true teacher. We are not in competition as that is carnal. Truth will emerge despite us eventually and we will all be shown to be lacking in comparison.
I do hope to help you see that to teach without continuing to listen is unwise.Then what is it you are trying to say Nick? You have made claims that my post is not correct. You have made claims that the water spoken of in John 3 is not that of physical birth, and tried to say it was something other then what scripture says it to be. So what is it, if that is not trying to disprove what I have posted, then what is it. Maybe you should choose your words more carefully, for once again, you dug yourself into a hole.
Hi H,
I have asked you repeatedly to show from scripture that the waters of childbirth is referring to natural birth but you have found no such evidence. Thus the foundation of this doctrine has been found to be lacking and that should cause you to rethink your position if you are a servant of the truth.
You fall into the same fault that brought about the trinity theory.
Your own ideas,
added to by derivations from scripture,
form new doctrines.But such an approach separates you from the Master who requires that we abide in the Word.
Jn 15
” 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
Nick, as I said before, I cannot remove the scales from off your eyes so that you can see or soften your heart so that you can understand. Only God can do that. I don't know what else I can do to help you understand. If you cannot get past this, you need to do some soul searching. For this scripture is not that difficult to see. Yet, if you are held within the doctrines of men, it is impossible to see.
This scripture is talking about being born again. Nicodemus understood it, yet you cannot. Nicodemus thought Jesus was referring to two phyiscal births. Jesus was referring to two spiritual births. And Jesus used the reference of being born of water and of spirit to show the differences to Nicodemus. If Nicodemus ever fully understood what Jesus was trying to convey to him, we do not know, for scripture does not say. Yet, I would say his chances of understanding are far much better then yours Nick. For at least he understands the part of the two births. He just didn't understand that Jesus meant they were both spiritual. Nicodemus thought Jesus was talking about two physical births. That is why he said, can an old man climb into his mother's womb a second time and be born?
Hi H,
You say this
“Nicodemus understood it, yet you cannot.”Where is it written that Nicodemus understood?
Did he say so?
Is it recorded anywhere or have you made this up?We should abide in the Word.
Nicodemus understood that Jesus was talking about two births. He just didn't understand that Jesus was speaking of two spiritual births. Nicodemus thought Jesus was speaking of two physical births. That is why he asked this question.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Hi H,
Yes we do know what he initially thought about rebirth.
We are not talking about that.You said he understood the explanation Jesus gave but I cannot see any proof of that in scripture.
Can you enlighten us please?
Nick, if you go back to an earlier post, you will see that I wrote that there is not proof if Nicodemus ever understood that Jesus meant being born again twice in the spirit. You must have missed it. There is only proof that he understood that Jesus was referring to two physical births.
The thing is Nick, about God's Word, men try to complicate God. God is not complicated. That is why Jesus said we are to come to him as children. When men come to him and try to rationalize, they miss the simplicity of God's Word. This is what you are doing. Come to God as a child.
The same thing happens when giving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. When given to a child, the child always verifies he has received it because they speak in tongues as the spirit gives them utterance. Many adults do not because they are blocked by lack of faith from things taught to them by the world.
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