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Sorry brother slash,
But if you are trying to put water in John 3, you missed the mark unless you are speaking of the water of birth. For a man must be born of water and of Spirit. We are born into this world in a sack of water. And when that water breaks, we are born. Thus, physical birth. Jesus even says in the very next verse. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
This scripture is the very basis of the faith. It is a stumbling block to many. I use it as a litmus test to discern where one stands in there spiritual walk. Some are young in the Lord and most are indoctrinated and can't get past the doctrines of men. It is for this reason I give the litmus test. It is not hard to understand, but if one is not of the Holy Spirit of God, he will not see.
Jesus said, a man must be born again. To be born again, a man must first be born and then die. Or we can not be born again. Now, Jesus was referring to rebirth in the spirit, for we are born only once in the flesh and then we die.
Hi H,
Do you know of any men, apart from Adam,
who have not been born of water?Then why are we commanded to do
what we cannot do
and has already happened
if we live and breathe?Hi H,
” I use it as a litmus test to discern where one stands in there spiritual walk.”
The litmus test you really use is whether men agree with yourself is it not?
Nick,
I tried to explain to you before. You continually try to add to the Word of God.
Nicodemus thought Jesus was talking about two physical births.
Jesus was talking about two spiritual births.
Jesus tried to make him understand.That is why he said a man must be born of water and of spirit. He was trying to get Nicodemus to understand the there is more to life then just physical birth. He was explaining to him that there is physical birth and spiritual birth.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
Hi H,
You keep trying to tell usbeing born of water
is the same as
being born of the flesh.Flesh
is not
WaterYou are wrong.
IMHOI have heard both sides of this discussion and don't know the answer myself.
Does born of water mean = baptism or 1st literal birth
Does anyone have any evidence (additional scripture) beyond argueing over the meaning of the word 'water'?
That might prove fruitful?
Hi Mercy,
Water can mean water [Heb 10.22f, Tit 3.5, baptisms etc]
Water can symbolise the Spirit[Jn 4,10-15,7.38,]
Water can symbolise the Word[Eph 5.26, Jn 15.3]
Water can symbolise forgiveness [Jn 13. 5-15,baptism]Hi Mercy,
So water in scripture can give life or wash us.
Childbirth is never described as being born of water.
Now in Jn 3 it cannot mean the Spirit as there would be repetition in being reborn of water and the Spirit.
That seems to leave washing.Dear Mercy,
Don't be persuaded by men who like to add to the Word of God. Read what the Word of God says. It is not that difficult to understand. Yet, if one is not of the same spirit, impossible to understand it seems.
Ask yourself this. Why would Jesus say that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit if he not trying to distinquish or help Nicodemus understand the difference between the two.
The verse perceeding it said a man must be born of water and of spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the spirit is spirit.The entire situation with Nicodemus dealt with his misunderstanding of what our Lord meant when he said a man must be born again. Nicodemus being a man in the flesh, thought as a man in the flesh and replied as a man in the flesh. Notice how he says, can an old man climb in is mother's womb a second time and be born. He understood the part of Jesus saying about having to be reborn, but he didn't understand that Jesus was referring to in the spirit.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Hi Mercy,
Here is Young's literal transaltion
Jn 3
“3Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'4Nicodemus saith unto him, `How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?'
5Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
7`Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
So Jesus speaks of being born “from above” as being born of the Spirit in v 3, and elaborates on it in v8. You can see the kingdom when you have been reborn of the Spirit and you can see the work of the Spirit and hear the voice of the Spirit but you cannot grasp how it happens as that is beyond our understanding.
So in v 5 he speaks instead of entry into the kingdom of God. He says that both water and the Spirit is required by God for such entry. The only correlation shown in scripture of water and Spirit is in baptism as shown in 1 Jn 5.7 with the added words in parentheses also in YLT. Here Jesus specifies the requirements of God for entry which peter showed he understood in Acts 10
“46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
” 6This one is he who did come through water and blood — Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth,
7because three are who are testifying [in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these — the three — are one;
8and three are who are testifying in the earth], the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one.”
Baptism in water has also been shown in scripture to have a spiritual effect.
LK 7.26f
” 27This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.28For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
29And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. “
Hi H,
Who are these people?
“Don't be persuaded by men who like to add to the Word of God.”
“You continually try to add to the Word of God.”Hi H,
This is probably the most serious accusation you can lay against any follower of Christ. If you are referring to me I would like detail please of this judgement you feel able to make and if you are not able to substantiate it I would like a public apology please. Thank you..Nick, it is not I who am adding to John 3:3. So who do you suppose I am referring to? John 3:3 is cut and dry. It is the basis of the faith. IT is the milk of the Word. It is a stumblingblock to those who are of a different spirit or not the gospel of Christ, but a litmus test to prove the validity of the stand of a believer in Christ.
So if the shoe fits, all I can say it must be yours. Even Nicodemus himself recognized that Jesus was referring to two births. He thought Jesus was talking physical, yet Jesus was speaking spiritual. So don't add to the Word of God, for all who do are in danger of judgement.
So if you are saying that to be born of water is anything other then physical birth, you are adding to the Word of God. Are you saying this is not phyical birth Nick?
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