What Is Meant by Born Again?

[kenrch]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2007,02:23)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2007,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 25 2007,12:10) Quote (942767 @ April 25 2007,12:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,15:26) Hi 94, God can place us in the kingdom by His soverign love and mercy but we are advised to enter. Hi Nick: God will not do anything contrary to his Word, and so, if Jesus states 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God. If by being born of water he means water baptism, then no man including the thief can be saved unless he is baptized in water.  This why I do not believe that He means water baptism.  I do believe that every believer should be baptized in water as soon after they believe whether or not they have already received the Holy Ghost (like Cornelius) or not. And you have a right to disagree, but this is my understanding. God Bless 94 I agree! NH believes that Jesus was born again at his Baptism, which is probably where he gets his Idea that when a believer is water baptised he recieves the Spirit and is born again by water and the Spirit. If I am wrong NH. Please correct me! Hi W, You are wrong. The Spirit is received by prayer or the laying on of hands. Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? NH Then that makes no sence. Because if you believe that Jesus was “Born again” at his baptism then it was then he recieved the Spirit. Yet, we see that Jesus grew in wisdom and favour with God and man. How did he do tha apart from the Spirit and how would he call God his Father if he dint have the Spirit until baptism?

So why was Jesus baptized WJ?

Hi Oxy!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kenrch @ April 28 2007,03:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2007,02:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 26 2007,14:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 25 2007,12:10) Quote (942767 @ April 25 2007,12:05) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2007,15:26) Hi 94, God can place us in the kingdom by His soverign love and mercy but we are advised to enter. Hi Nick: God will not do anything contrary to his Word, and so, if Jesus states 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God. If by being born of water he means water baptism, then no man including the thief can be saved unless he is baptized in water.  This why I do not believe that He means water baptism.  I do believe that every believer should be baptized in water as soon after they believe whether or not they have already received the Holy Ghost (like Cornelius) or not. And you have a right to disagree, but this is my understanding. God Bless 94 I agree! NH believes that Jesus was born again at his Baptism, which is probably where he gets his Idea that when a believer is water baptised he recieves the Spirit and is born again by water and the Spirit. If I am wrong NH. Please correct me! Hi W, You are wrong. The Spirit is received by prayer or the laying on of hands. Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? NH Then that makes no sence. Because if you believe that Jesus was “Born again” at his baptism then it was then he recieved the Spirit. Yet, we see that Jesus grew in wisdom and favour with God and man. How did he do tha apart from the Spirit and how would he call God his Father if he dint have the Spirit until baptism?   So why was Jesus baptized WJ? Hi Oxy!

K

To fulfill all righteousness as he told John.

Jesus didnt need baptism, he was perfect sinless.

Water baptism was for sinners.

John said he needed to be baptised by him.

John claimed that Jesus would baptise men in the Holy Ghost and fire.

Who but God could do that?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say

“John claimed that Jesus would baptise men in the Holy Ghost and fire.
Who but God could do that?”

Siurely you would not make such a bald statement unless you knew a scripture that says

“Only GOD CAN BAPTISE in the Spirit and Fire”

If not then you expose to all that with no scriptural information to work on
LOGIC is a good enough basis for doctrine for you.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 28 2007,06:48)

Hi W, You say “John claimed that Jesus would baptise men in the Holy Ghost and fire. Who but God could do that?” Siurely you would not make such a bald statement unless you knew a scripture that says “Only GOD CAN BAPTISE in the Spirit and Fire” If not then you expose to all that with no scriptural information to work on LOGIC is a good enough basis for doctrine for you.

NH

John 1:1 and Heb 1:8 and Acts 20:28 and 1 Jn 5:20,
and, and, and…

Is good enough for me. How about you?

[942767]

Quote (Oxy @ April 27 2007,21:13)

Why did Jesus need to be born again?  He was born Son of God, wasn't that enough?

Hi Oxy:

We've missed you.  I guess that what you are saying is that Jesus was not born again when he received the Spirit of God at the Jordan after he had been baptized, and I agree with this.  

Jesus was a child of God under the Law of Moses and was raised by Jewish parents under the Law.  He was baptized so that he could tell us by his example that this is what we his disciples needed to do.  

He said in Matt 3:15
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh * us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

He received the Holy Ghost because God was going to speak to humanity through him. Hebrews 1      
1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,  
1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,  

However, Jesus was born again not at his baptism but when he was raised from the dead.  1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, THE FIRSBORN FROM THE DEAD; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He did this because of his love for humanity.

God Bless

[Oxy]

Quote (942767 @ April 28 2007,13:34)

Quote (Oxy @ April 27 2007,21:13) Why did Jesus need to be born again?  He was born Son of God, wasn't that enough? Hi Oxy: We've missed you.  I guess that what you are saying is that Jesus was not born again when he received the Spirit of God at the Jordan after he had been baptized, and I agree with this.   Jesus was a child of God under the Law of Moses and was raised by Jewish parents under the Law.  He was baptized so that he could tell us by his example that this is what we his disciples needed to do.   He said in Matt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh * us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. He received the Holy Ghost because God was going to speak to humanity through him. Hebrews 1       1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,   However, Jesus was born again not at his baptism but when he was raised from the dead.  1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, THE FIRSBORN FROM THE DEAD; that in all things he might have the preeminence. He did this because of his love for humanity. God Bless

Thanks for the sentiment 94 lol. However, I have to disagree. Jesus was not born again when He was raised from the dead, he was simply raised from the dead. We are born again, yet we must die a physical death, but we also will be raised from the dead. Otherwise, we who have been born again will be born again yet again when we are raised from the dead. Does this make sense?

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 27 2007,21:32)

Hi Oxy, Jesus was born an ordinary and a powerless man. He needed to be born from above of the Spirit of God. We needed this to be necessary too so that we can follow him.

I disagree Nick. When Jesus received the Holy Spirit He received power from on high. This is no different to us receiving the Holy Spirit, which most often happens AFTER we are born again,

[Oxy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 28 2007,02:26)

Quote (Oxy @ April 27 2007,21:13) Why did Jesus need to be born again?  He was born Son of God, wasn't that enough? Hey Brother Oxy. Welcome back. Good to see you. Hope all is well? Good to see David that slew the giant has returned with the stone of the Word of God!

The Word of God being Jesus as we both know…

[942767]

Quote (Oxy @ April 28 2007,16:18)

Quote (942767 @ April 28 2007,13:34) Quote (Oxy @ April 27 2007,21:13) Why did Jesus need to be born again?  He was born Son of God, wasn't that enough? Hi Oxy: We've missed you.  I guess that what you are saying is that Jesus was not born again when he received the Spirit of God at the Jordan after he had been baptized, and I agree with this.   Jesus was a child of God under the Law of Moses and was raised by Jewish parents under the Law.  He was baptized so that he could tell us by his example that this is what we his disciples needed to do.   He said in Matt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh * us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. He received the Holy Ghost because God was going to speak to humanity through him. Hebrews 1       1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,   1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,   However, Jesus was born again not at his baptism but when he was raised from the dead.  1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, THE FIRSBORN FROM THE DEAD; that in all things he might have the preeminence. He did this because of his love for humanity. God Bless Thanks for the sentiment 94 lol.  However, I have to disagree.  Jesus was not born again when He was raised from the dead, he was simply raised from the dead.  We are born again, yet we must die a physical death, but we also will be raised from the dead.  Otherwise, we who have been born again will be born again yet again when we are raised from the dead.  Does this make sense?

No Oxy:

I understand your reasoning but I don't agree, but let me try to show you what I am saying:  

Col 1:18 states:
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

This verse of scripture states that he was the firstborn from the dead.  He was dead which means he was separated from God.  He died this death to pay the judgment that was against humanity.  Rom 6:23 states: “For the wages of sin is death…”.  Jesus paid this penalty for us, and was raised again from the dead by God to eternal life.

Before we were born again we were dead or separated from God because of our sins but because we have made Jesus our Lord, we have been born again or raised from the dead to eternal life just as Jesus was.

Col 2:13 states:
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Although we are born again, we might die a physical death, but we won't die a spirtual death as long as we are in the faith when we die.

John 11:25-26 states:
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:  
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never * * * die. Believest thou this?  

God Bless

[Oxy]

I hear what you are saying 94 and welcome your blessings.

In order to be born again, what does one do? He repents and receives Christ as Lord and saviour. Who did Christ receive? Himself? No, I think rather He was born as the Son of God without need for repentence or spiritual birth, although He did receive the Holy Spirit when He was baptised.

Yes, He was seperated from the Father when our sin was put upon Him, but that did not mean He had to be born again, but He did have to die to pay the price. He was ressurected from the dead, but there is no mention in Scripture of Jesus ever needing to be born again. Should He receive Himself? Should He bow to Himself? No, I don't think so.

Blessings

[NickHassan]

Hi OXY,
You say
“what does one do? He repents and receives Christ as Lord and saviour. “
What does this mean?
where is it written?

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 29 2007,18:32)

Hi OXY, You say “what does one do?  He repents and receives Christ as Lord and saviour. “ What does this mean? where is it written?

You MAY DO IT JOHNS way that he proclaims Jesus said

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Or you can do it Peters way and allow all men to be born again by the seed within to corruption or incorruption either good or Bad.

1Pe 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But this should be that you recieve roots As christ Had root in himself from a father seed King David

[charity]

“Must” be born Again occurs in 1 verse in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Jhn 3:7 – Jhn 3:7)

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

[charity]

Born again occurs in 5 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 1 (Gen 29:34 – 1Pe 1:23)

Gen 29:34 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Now this time will my husband be joined unto me, because I have born him three sons: therefore was his name called Levi.

Jdg 13:8 Then Manoah intreated the LORD, and said, O my Lord, let the man of God which thou didst send come again unto us, and teach us what we shall do unto the child that shall be born.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jesus only Told John Then?

[NickHassan]

Hi Charity,
John speaks as Christ. So does Peter. They are one.
Where are you?

[charity]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 29 2007,19:08)

Hi Charity, John speaks as Christ. So does Peter. They are one. Where are you?

Nick Born again has become a Law

[NickHassan]

Hi charity,
YOU MUST.
Of course another option is to deny the verse and villify the writer.
If you would prefer that path beware of the real author Who would have us love his words.

Jn 6
' 60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

67Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? “

[Oxy]

I don't know what the problem is with being born again. I think almost everyone in our church has experienced being born again and have also received the Holy Spirit. If Jesus said it then it's good enough for me.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
How reliable are experiences alone?
Is it not better to also check our path against what we are told we MUST DO?
Rev 16
” 13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 29 2007,20:32)

Hi Oxy, How reliable are experiences alone? Is it not better to also check our path against what we are told we MUST DO? Rev 16 ” 13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

Experiences can be many fold as you know. Praise God that His sheep know His voice, and I am one of His sheep. When I look at my life over the past 28 years that I have known the Lord, my mistakes and wrong doings stick out like the thorns on a rose stem. Praise God that the things I get right also are significant.

What I am saying is that I know my Lord's voice. When I obey Him I see the fruit of that obedience in the way of miracles etc.

I know what I must do. The Scriptures tell us about Him with whom we have to do.

[Author]

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