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- August 21, 2006 at 11:14 pm#25195He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipant
Jesus said “…Except a man be bom again, he cannot see the kingdom of God …except a man be bom of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'' [John 3: 3, 5]
How is this new birth achieved? And what are the signs of this happening? Will you be filled with the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues?
Jesus said the change is not one which is as easily discerned as is the natural birth of a baby but that there will nevertheless be some sign that this has occurred. [John 3: 6-8]
A Process
Many persons proudly go around telling people they are bom again based on some experience they had with the power of God which allowed them to perform some sign or the other and others even simply claim that they were born again at the moment they believed that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead that we might have life. However, while these occurrences are a part of the process, it is one which only begins when a sinner decides to repent of their sins and have faith in the Lord Jesus. [Acts 2: 38; 20: 20. 21:1 Peter 3: 21; I Peter 2: 1, 2; Romans 6: 3, 4]. The scriptures tell us that God is a spirit[John 4:24] and the Apostle John tells us the result of being born of that spirit:
''Whosoever is bom of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him. And he cannot sin. because he is born of God.”
The Apostle Paul says it in this way:
“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.” [Ephesians 4: 22—24]
After – according to, with reference to.
Hence the believer who is fully born again or born of the spirit has attained God-like or Christ-like qualities or characteristics. His mind is renewed to be in line with the will of God.[See,Romans 12:2]
“Let this mind be in you. which was also in Christ Jesus.” [Philippians 2: 5; See also I John 2: 6: Colossians 3:1-3, 9.10; II Corinthians 5:14-17, Romans 6.11-18]
This is the person who has the spirit of God dwelling in him. This person has the spirit of Christ. This new attitude or mind will cause the former sinner to be one who is quickened, after being once dead in trespasses and sins. This is the new birth. [See Ephesians 2: 1-10; Romans 8: 1-14]
The New Birth Process
How is this spirit or attitude which is of God developed?
Many persons confuse God anointing His servants with power, through the Holy Ghost with this process, but although the anointing is used in this process, the anointing is not the final objective but a tool to be used to reach the objective of a Christ-like nature. The Holy Ghost anointing which are beneficial in this process are those which will edify;
“How be it when He the spirit of truth; is come, He will guide you into all truth…” [John 16: 13]
“But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” [John 14: 26]
Hence the anointing is to be mainly used to teach the people of God as the scripture says:
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water…” [John 7: 38; See Isaiah 58: 11,12]
N.B. Out of his belly indicates the ministering function of that person who is anointed with the Holy Ghost as the scripture says:
“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me…” [Acts 1:8]
In speaking of the same power or ability Paul says: “… Wlien he ascended upon high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men . ..and he gave some, Apostles; and some Prophets, and some, Evangelists; and some Pastors and Teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and to the knowledge of the son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ…” [Ephesians 4: 8-13]
So whereas the anointing to perform signs will assist in bringing unbelievers to Christ, it is the ministering gifts or gifts of edification given by the Holy Ghost which will lead the believer to come to be the perfect man, to be in the fulness of the stature of Christ, to have the knowledge of the son of God, to have the spirit of Christ/God. The anointing will work with the word of God.
Peter knew the value of the word of God from Jesus;
“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren,.. .being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.”
“It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life …then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.” [John 6: 63-68]
Hence the Christian must:
“As new born babes, desire the sincere milk of the word that ye may grow there by.” and:
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another…”Jesus said:
“Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built is house upon a rock.” [Matthew 7: 24]Jesus set the example for us when He was tempted of the Devil as He used the word of God to resist the temptations presented. [Matthew 4: 1-11.] This is how a Christian will be able to resist the Devil and cause him to flee. [James 4: 7]
Lack of Growth/Birth – Lack of Word
Because of lack of knowledge or understanding of the word many persons do not grow as Christians and do not complete the new birth. The believer remains carnal and is not able to attain to the spirit of God even though they may have been anointed by the Holy Ghost to perform signs. This was the situation of the Christians at Corinth.
More persons are needed who desire after gifts which edify by seeking for a revelation, knowledge, prophecy or a doctrine. Just as how many tarry at the altar in order to be able to get filled and speak in tongues, they should instead seek to gain the gifts which edify and will cause the Christian to develop the fruits which show the nature of God being imparted through the edification of the believer. [James 1: 5,17-19.]
The believer can fail for lack of this needed edification, as although he is able to perform signs and wonders he will be turned away from the Kingdom or called nothing by God. This will be the fate also of those who fail to put into practice the things we are required to do as Christians, after they have been revealed or taught to us. [James 1: 21-25; Matthew 7:15-23; I Corinthians 13:1-3.]
This is why the Apostle Paul had to be diligent about putting his body under subjection lest, in all his speaking in tongues and receiving of revelations and ministering for the Lord, he become a castway and lose his crown. Hence it must be clear that to speak in tongues, prophesy, work miracles etc. cannot be a sign of being born again but only a sign of the power working in us which can lead us to the bond of perfectness which is charity. [See Ephesians 3:1-7; I Corinthians 14:18; 9: 25-27; Colossians 3: 14-16]
Reasons for Error and Deception
Many persons do not realise that Jesus taught His disciples andopened their understanding to the scriptures before He gave them the power to minister on their ow
n. [Matthew 28:18-20; Luke 24: 27, 44-49.]The Apostle Paul gave further instructions concerning how the minister aught to prepare himself.[II Timothy 2: 15; 3: 15-17;Timothy 4: 13-16; Titus 2:1, 7, 8.]
Those who gain the power to do signs like speaking in tongues and healing, without the gifts of doctrine, revelation through the word of God, tend to give heed to seducing spirits which lead them astray, as without a knowledge or understanding of the word they will have no way to test the spirits if they are of God i.e. if it is the mind or will
or attitude of God which is being encouraged. [John 17. 17; II Thessalonians 2: 13; I John 4: 1-3; II Timothy 4: 3, 4; I Timothy 4: 1; I Thessalonians 5: 20, 21; Acts 17: 10, 11; Psalm 119: 104.]Some will know the word but still give heed to the seducer for ulterior motives or because of lack of application of what is known. [II Peter 2: 1-3; 12-16.] Many of these persons resist the leading and teaching of the Holy Ghost and instead follow after the teaching of men.Hence many who claim to have the Holy Ghost do not allow the Holy Ghost to teach them but only do miracles, heal the sick, speak in new tongues and then end up in Bible School being taught by men who are in the same position as they are, ignorant of the will of God and resisting knowledge of the same when it is being revealed to them by the Holy Ghost or by persons who have been gifted by the Holy Ghost with revelation of scripture, knowledge, doctrine etc. [Acts 7: 51-53; Hebrews 3: 7-19; I Corinthians 12:7-11.]
Many make the mistake and say the Scribes and Pharisees and Sadducees knew the scriptures but did not know the Messiah when He came and that they were obedient to God's will, but this is one of the biggest lies told concerning them in order to excuse a lazy type of Christianity which frowns upon a studying Christian. This is because in the encounters of Jesus with the religious leaders, He showed that they erred from not knowing the scriptures, changed the commands of God for their own benefit and did not believe the testimony of the law and prophets. [Matthew 22: 29; 15: 1-9; John 5: 39-47; Luke 16: 27-31; John 3: 10-12.] We must not be found guilty of the same faults or the truths in the word of God will bypass us and we will end up speaking evil of the truth. [Isaiah 30: 8-10]
Examples
King David when he found himself in fault, having sinned, asked God to restore that right spirit or attitude in him i.e. he wanted to have that godly outlook and behaviour once again.
“Create in me a clean heart, oh God; and renew a right spirit within me.” [Psalm 51: 10]
What is the right spirit? The spirit of God.
The Holy.Spirit will lead him to be in obedience to God. [Psalm 51: 11; Psalm 32: 8, 9; 23: 3]
When spies were sent to spy out the land of Canaan only Joshua and Caleb came with a good report even though God promised that the land was given to them. Of Caleb the scriptures said:
“But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully,…” [Numbers 14: 24]
Which spirit or attitude or mind would allow Caleb to follow God fully? The spirit of God.
On the other side of the coin, Jesus had taught His disciples how to react to rejection of their message but when they came upon one such situation they did not react as they should; Christ said:
“But He turned and rebuked them, and said, ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.” [Luke 9: 51-56; See Luke 9. 1-5]
Which spirit or attitude caused James and John to behave in this way? The spirit opposing Christ or God i.e. the Antichrist.
Peter found himself in a similar situation concerning Gentiles in the Church and had to be rebuked by Paul. [See Galatians 2: 11-14.] Again the spirit of Antichrist. [See Matthew 16: 21-23.] Many Holy Ghost filled persons today are in the position Peter found himself and they continue to preach another gospel because although they are rebuked, they believe God is pleased with them because of the gifts they have received from God, because their prayers are answered and they do not appear to be chastised by God for what others say is sinful behaviour. They do not realise that God gives the Holy Ghost even to the rebellious. [Psalm 68:18: Ephesians 4: 8; I Corinthians 13: 1-3.] Or that the goodness of God is to lead them to repent. [See Romans 2: 4. 5: Matthew 5: 45; Luke 6: 35.] Or even that God delays and lessens punishment for sin. [Romans 2: 5, 6; Ecclesiastes 8: 11-13; Psalm 103: 10]
Fruits, not Gifts, must be Evident
The ultimate test of the Christian is the fruits that He produces. The fruits show whether the new birth is achieved or not. No
proud or haughty person possesses the spirit of God, neither those who do not have charity the bond of perfectness. Pastors who preach mightily and are able perform signs and miracles are to be judged, not by these, but by the truth of their message and this applies to anyone carrying a message concerning the gospel, because:“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” [Isaiah 8: 13-20; Romans 9: 33; I John 1: 5-7.]
Why not let the word of God give you light so you may become converted to be a new man? [John 1: 1-5,14; 3: 19-21; Ephesians 4: 17-24]
“Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light to my path. [Psalm 119: 105] and:
“The law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul…” [Psalm 19: 7; See also Romans 8: 6, 7]
August 22, 2006 at 2:56 am#25227NickHassanParticipantBefore resurrection comes death.
Jn 12
” 24″Truly, truly, I say to you, (AG)unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit”Death for us is in water baptism.
Rom 6
” 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been (E)baptized into (F)Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?4Therefore we have been (G)buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was (H)raised from the dead through the (I)glory of the Father, so we too might walk in (J)newness of life. “
August 22, 2006 at 11:08 pm#25319He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantReread the post Nick.
August 26, 2006 at 11:15 pm#25719He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantThis post is a good post. It talks about the difference of being born again or the first baptism, the baptism by blood and how it is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is a powerful post and should be read by all. It ties it all together. It is a blessing.
Praise God. For he inhabits our praise.
August 26, 2006 at 11:35 pm#25725NickHassanParticipantHi H,
Is this your own post you are talking about?August 27, 2006 at 12:25 am#25728He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantNick, the post on being born again merely supports the baptisms. You ask again if something is mine and I will answer again the same. If I were to say any truth is mine, I would be a liar. For all truth comes from God. If what is posted is truth, is of the unction of the Holy Spirit, then how can I, a mere pot of clay dare lay any claim to it. God forbid.
If what I post is not true, then you can say or make claims that they are mine. And if proven that there is fault in them, I would surely repent. For the last thing I seek to do is not the will of God. I love the Lord with all of my heart. He is in my every thought. When I am at work, I think of him. When I am driving home, I am listening and singing to christian music. Oh how wonderful and great a God who created this little lump of clay. I don't know why he even gives me the morsels from his table. I don't deserve them. I am nobody. So how can I not love him. He does so much for me. He gives me so much. The least I can do is pass along the morsels he gives me from off his table.
August 27, 2006 at 12:31 am#25730NickHassanParticipantHi H,
How can you tell what you teach is of the Unction and what is of yourself.
None of us claim to be pure springs of that Unction
but you seem to make such claims about yourself.
Is that wise?August 27, 2006 at 12:58 am#25731He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantAnd yet the Words are there for the you and all to prove and disprove. Some have come by prayer and fasting. Some have come for the furtherance of this teaching that reveals how the baptisms were changed within the church. The interesting part is that what was given through the unction of the Holy Spirit can be proven by searching History. So if you don't believe that this is the unction of God, try looking up baptism in history.
August 27, 2006 at 2:29 am#25738NickHassanParticipantHi H,
We all drink as best we can from our own pure wells
and your continued judgements do not find their mark
so you do not need to try to carry us all on your shoulders,
but thanks for your helpful contributions.Prov 5.15
” 15Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.”August 27, 2006 at 10:07 pm#25783He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantNick, as always, instead of trying to understand, you would rather oppose. Look up the baptism yourself. God gave the inspiration through the unction of the Holy Spirit in the Word of God and the man in me confirmed it through searching History. So as a man you can do the same.
I can say that the Lord gave this to me and may the Lord forgive me, but instead of just letting go and posting without question, I searched it out in History. If it was the man in me that did this or if being led by God I don't know for sure. I didn't doubt what the Lord had given me, yet I found myself searching it out. I can see the benefit of searching it out and confirming it through History, but I wonder if it was to appease my flesh or to do the will of God. On this I am not sure. If I did it because there may have been some shred of doubt, I pray the Lord forgive me.
August 27, 2006 at 10:13 pm#25785NickHassanParticipantHi H,
Hopefully we are all trying to humbly follow the Master and learn more truth from him and from and through each other as we walk. Are not our weak fleshly vessels and our limited natural minds yet a hindrance to that truth?August 27, 2006 at 10:24 pm#25790He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantThat is why it is so wonderful knowing that he who is in us is greater then he who is in the world.
August 27, 2006 at 10:31 pm#25791NickHassanParticipantHi H,
Yes. And more study and more knowledge does not necessarily make us any more correct. That is the false hope of theologians as the mind is a trap.
Truth is truth
Jesus said in Jn 17
“My word is truth”
So we can know where truth is pure.
But we will never fully grasp it here as it is too deep for us entailing Godly knowledge and wisdom.
We are forever humble students and servants of the Word.August 27, 2006 at 10:58 pm#25797He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantThe knowledge comes from our faith of he who is in us, God's Holy Word. As we read God's Word, God manifests himself to us through his Word by the unction of the Holy Spirit. When his Word is revealed to us, and we believe it, it is written on the fleshy tablets of our hearts.
August 27, 2006 at 11:16 pm#25799NickHassanParticipantHi H,
Imperfectly due to our inadequacy and deafness.August 27, 2006 at 11:31 pm#25800He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantNick, I don't understand what you are saying?
August 28, 2006 at 1:55 am#25808NickHassanParticipantHi H,
We wait and hope for the mind of Christ as he is born into us.
We do not immediately possess such a mind,
but it slowly develops in us in Christ
through feeding on the Word and
through fellowship with our brothers..August 28, 2006 at 5:17 pm#26219MercyParticipantDoes it really say Born Again? Or does it say, Born from Above?
Young's literal translation:
3Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'
August 28, 2006 at 7:14 pm#26224NickHassanParticipantgood point. Thanks
August 28, 2006 at 9:24 pm#26236He’s Coming in the CloudsParticipantYou stick with young, I will with old, the good old King James.
Dear Mercy, would you ask this question if you knew the answer? Evidently you do not know for sure? I do know for sure, for I have experienced it. All those who have experienced it also know for sure. For the rebirth is in the Spirit. The spirit that was once spiritually dead because of sin, is reborn or renewed by the quickening Spirit, Christ the Lord through faith in him.
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