What I Believe

[seekingtruth]

To All,
Before giving this document to my kids, I want to make sure I haven't overlooked a scripture that shows I'm in error. I expect some will dis-agree with all of it, and all will dis-agree with some of it, but I value any input that you may have in my search for truth (and especially in passing it on to my kids).

Foreword:
Sometimes truth is complicated, but that does not mean that it is not absolute. There are not different versions of truth, just different levels of understanding, in different areas, of one all-encompassing truth. ‘Christianity’ is a classic example, all claim to have truth but even within the mainline churches one group’s beliefs conflict with another’s, while pointing to the same book as the source of their belief. Many have been turned away from exploring certain truths because a “cult” has embraced it among their false doctrines; I believe that this was done by the enemy for that very purpose.

I can only speak for myself (although I'm sure it applies to most), I want truth. I have no interest in putting together my own set of “religious beliefs”. I have studied scriptures for over thirty years now with the intent purpose of finding truth, I have read what other have said about truth and at the end of the day I'm left with… “my opinion”. I hate that I've failed, with absolute certainty, put truth in a box. I have very firm beliefs on most issues; but I realize despite having tried my best to understand what it is that scriptures say’s and having continually sought guidance from the Holy Spirit, I could be wrong.

So I think life should be approached with the understanding that our beliefs are our opinions, leaving us more flexible to accept a revelation of truth when it comes our way, unless one believes they already have all truth, I certainly don't. Which is why I continue to sign my thoughts as “my opinion”.
An opinion is a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof. It is said that opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one, it’s further stated that without data you’re just another a**hole with an opinion. Scripture is our source and while I believe all pertinent truth is in scripture, it is far too vast for any one person to see how it all interweaves. It seems to have been God's will that only those desiring truth over their opinions will be able to find it. This requires reasoning together, trying to understand others position and giving it an honest evaluation against what can be found in scripture and don’t be afraid to murder your darlings (a saying for not holding too tight to an idea you like).

It's hard to give up on a deeply held conviction, but a love for truth makes it possible to do so. This document addresses what I feel the whole of scripture and what the Holy Spirit have revealed to me in my studies in the hopes it can help me further sort them out and to possibly be of some help to you.

Adherence to traditional doctrines creates conflicts from which faith suffers by not being able to consider alternatives that solve the dilemma so instead it leads to questioning the faith and Scriptures resulting in the loss of guidance and we're left to our own devices

Despite what others may think, every “opinion” I offer I believe to be truth based on my best honest evaluation of scriptures. But I must assume that there are many, of greatly different opinions from me, who believe the exact same thing. Now, although I believe I've found much truth it does not keep me from being deceived (the very nature of being deceived means you're unaware of it). So even when I read some other line of reasoning that at first I would want to reject out of hand, I force myself to give it as honest of an evaluation as I can against the whole of scripture, not just my favorite parts.

As to not agreeing with others, I must note, I do not currently agree with myself of a year ago and he disagrees with myself of the year before that, etc. I don't have all truth yet, others may have more truth then me, while some may have more truth, but still have major errors in their belief or even others who have less overall truth but have a better revelation on a certain truth then all of us.

What I'm saying is, all I can offer is my opinion, unless Jesus comes down and shows me all truth, all I can do is show how something could of been interpreted differently and how that may fit better with the whole of scripture. I will answer for how I used what was given me.
 
My Opinions

World-view

•Existence – The complexities of life requires a creator.

•Source – Assuming then that there was a creator what do we know about Him. The best source that fits what’s observed in the world at large are the Judeo-Christian scriptures they have:  
 
oA plausible creation
oAn accurate assessment of man
oProphecy given long before fulfillment
oAn accurate portrayal of history
oA common thread throughout
oMultiple authors agreeing
oThe wisdom of love and redemption

Taken together these items provide substantial proof on the validity of scripture.

Scriptures – as given are accurate and reliable; nonetheless misunderstandings from culture, idioms, or preconceived concepts can produce perceived errors. To further complicate matters various translations are misleading or even completely in error (in their interpretation from the original Greek and Hebrew), however it is by the whole of scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit that truth can be found.

Understanding – we're forced to seek out truth that was given in writings to a different culture, in a different time, in a different language, and it is only with the help of the Holy Spirit that we can hope to discover some of it throughout our lifetime. But, I believe this is God's will, having all truth doesn't mean as much to Him, as us being willing to spend our lives in pursuit of it, and to learn of Him in the process, I believe this pleases the Father.

The Whole Truth – I wrote two stories once, in one I was downtrodden, and in another I was privileged, they described the same event and everything I stated was 100% true. Then I likened it to how people will take a number of verses from scripture, to arrive at a distorted view. Once the whole story is taken into account, then the truth comes out. Yes I believe the scriptures as given reveals truth, but only if we consider all of them, verifying interpretations, until we find harmony with all scriptures,

Traditions – Traditions are so entrenched that for many to even question them is tantamount to heresy. However some traditional interpretations are in error with some even distorting the nature of God. These cause what appear to be conflicts, resulting in some losing the faith, never knowing that there are other interpretations which will harmonize all of scripture.

Does God’s reign – How can evil co-exist with a God who says He is love, if He is in control? The simple answer is that God is not in control of planet earth since the fall. When God gave to man the dominion of the earth, He did just that. And in doing so He limited Himself in what He is able to do on earth to accomplish His will without over-riding man's dominion, By doing so all He has available is; what he had set in place at creation, what He can accomplish through His people who through prayer offer Him back dominion, those from all the ages who have chosen to be obedient, and finally to exerting influence upon all people (not by forcing them, but by moving in their situations to achieve His desired result).

Creation – I believe that the “first born of all creation” comes from when the Father, having determined to create our corporeal reality, spoke it into existence. That is, from outside our reality He established the framework (namely time and 3D space) and a
t the point where our dimension first began to exist the essence of the Father manifested within this new dimension, not as a created item but the very nature of the Father, a Son truly begotten from the Father.

Who is God – God is a title to an “office”, not a name. There is only one true “God”; the Father is the source of/for everything. There is only one true “Lord”; Jesus was placed in authority of everything by the Father. Any other gods or lords are positions and powers within creation not necessarily under subjection to the Father or His Son at this time.
The Father is best understood as being like our soul, embodying self (God in this case), exerting His will over His corporeal extension (the future begotten Son). So just as a human being's body provides our soul with its interface to the world, so the “pre-incarnate” Jesus was God's extension to interface with us. Of course later I believe that this manifested “body” of which we were made after, (“our image”) would provide the DNA (or whatever) to allow the Father, to father, His only begotten Son.

I believe the Father exists outside/above all of His creation(s) yet His awareness of all living things somehow permeates both heaven and earth. He is so far beyond His creation(s), that He interacts vicariously through His “agents” (His Son and the Holy Spirit), that is why Jesus came explaining the Father.  

The Father is the personage of God while the Son as His “agent” (Lord of Heaven and Earth) is within the office of “God”. The Father is far greater then all including the Son. The Son is the image of the Father and contains the nature of the Father (all that can be perceived of the Father by those of us in this reality) and is God’s representative and is in all ways “God” to us while acknowledging the Father as His God. The Holy Spirit is God’s Spirit but somehow the nature of the spiritual reality has “it” existing separately, possibly similar to Jesus being an image of the Father in this reality so the Holy Spirit is a manifestation of the Father in the spirit realm. Prior to His incarnation I believe that Jesus simply acted as the Father's agent in all matters related to His corporeal creation.

I believe Jesus and the Holy Spirit are different manifestations of the Father. The best I can do is a vague comparison to water. If an endless supply of water was to represent the Father and He removed all heat from a pocket of the water, then a solid chunk of ice will manifest everywhere the cold intersects with the water. If He further creates another pocket of several hundred degrees then everywhere the water is heated will turn to steam. The water will not have been diminished, or changed into something besides water, there would only be different manifestations, of the same water. Now the water existed before the cold, but did not manifest as ice because the “new environment” wasn’t there to support it.

With the foundation of our reality laid, God was manifested in this new reality as everything our reality could possibly support of the Father (but was far short of the whole). Now this manifestation was the pre-incarnate Jesus (“God manifest in the flesh”) having a separate identity but “the exact representation of his being”, manifested at the birth of our reality, He was 'supreme over all creation' and “existed in the form of God”, and it was by this manifestation that 'the world was made through him'.

This manifestation having the makings of this reality, but with the essence of God, was at the opportune time sent to pay the ransom for all men and fulfill the secret of God, to make possible the age of grace.

This essence of the Father’s corporeal manifestation was emptied of all but the nature of God and impregnated into Mary in a manner that she remained a virgin. This image of the Father was born into a child, not having a sin nature, but fully human.

Man’s makeup
•Spirit – the embodiment of intellect and power. Host to the emotions, influenced from higher sources good and evil, like pools we can tap into them or even come under their power.
•Soul – self, seat of the consciousness, our will, choosing between good and evil
•Body – source of desires, memories, thoughts, and reasoning. Our interface to the world

The flesh and the spirit give expression to the soul

Man’s purpose – The Father created us to rule under His Son over this creation. The finite nature of this corporeal existence provided an arena to show the angels of heaven the long term effects of satan’s sin and why satan and those who chose to follow him are deserving of the Lake of Fire. It also showed the length that the Father would go to redeem His creation and the Love He has for it. What does He want from us:

•Our Trust (faith) – in Him as a child.
•Our Obedience – Obedience is better than sacrifice. But we find ourselves incapable of not messing this up (at least I do) so we hope in salvation.
•A Relationship – with us. He desires that no man perish, and although we are nothing compared to Him He has chosen us and while yet sinners He made a way for us to be reconciled. If not for the love of God where would we be?

But for now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.

The Fall – Motivated by desire Eve took the item that was forbidden. It was not the act of rebellion that brought the separation from God to her and her descendants but the gaining of the knowledge of good and evil

Law – Our inheritance is from the promise of God to Abraham. The Law was given through a mediator (Moses an arranged messenger) to expose to men their guilt until the arrival of the Christ the “descendant” to whom the promise was made.  

Worship – An openness and requirement for truth within your soul that results in a realization of the character of God that brings about an emotional response of adoration felt in your spirit as it touches the Spirit of God.

Prayer – We can make our requests unto the Father but He does what is best for the long run and the greater good, within the guidelines of man having dominion. If God gave us everything we asked He would be like a genie in a lamp and we would be controlling Him.

Trials – not to be despised but embraced as they bring about growth and character, a time where we learn more about God as our circumstances draws us closer to our only refuge and increase our faith (trust) in Him.

Dispensations – A divine ordering of worldly affairs into ages, periods of time defined by how God interacts with man. Not everything commanded by God to people in one age necessarily applies to people in another age.  

Light – scriptures referencing Jesus as the light of the world refers to His bringing revelation and understanding, when God said “let there be light” He was stating that a plan was now at its inception to revel the character of God to both Heaven and earth.

Revelation – you can know scripture end to end but only the Holy Spirit can bring revelation hence true understanding.
Faith – The trust that our will puts into the 'seed of truth' placed in all men, from which there is a rebirth and we are transformed as our minds are renewed (a lifelong process) from living for our desires, to living a life of love for God.
Hope – Joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation and everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Love – Is measured by the estimation of the worth of a person's soul to you. Love fulfills the law, it is selfless, putting others first prior to our desires, wants, and even our needs. Good works done for selfish reason gain nothing while God will reward all works of love.

Grace – Is getting what you do not deserve.

Mercy – Is not getting what you do deserve.

Walking by Fai
th – The longing to live in the presence of God away from this world, but a confident expectation that our heavenly Father is both willing and capable of directing our lives and meeting our needs, for the greater good, as we move through this life. So the times we walk in what seems to be darkness is where God is building our faith.

Kingdom of Heaven – a body of people where God's will is accomplished built right in the middle of satan's domain (the beginning of Christ's ultimate Kingdom).

Born Again – is an openness to the revelation of God where His spirit touches our spirit, giving birth to a love motivated lifestyle (as evidence of our new birth).  

10 Commandments – Full obedience to the Law would earn you the right to expect eternal life but only Jesus has been able to accomplish it and in doing so He paid the price for all (He fulfilled the Law). Everyone else must rely on their rejection of self and love for others this is best accomplished through a better understanding of how God provided for all (being a “Christian”) but even an unconscious adherence to the law of love (the “sheep” who helped others) will gain many this gift of God.

Sin – Is giving in to the desires of the flesh to gain some sort of pleasure, best defined as doing something from selfishness disregarding its impacts on others.

Forgiveness – Pride will prevent you from realizing just how much we all have been forgiven and “whoever has been forgiven little loves little” and “if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions”.

Salvation – ALL salvation is through what Jesus accomplished on the cross, and is found by all who by faith choose a life defined by love and unselfishness; some through the conscious proclamation of what God did through His Son, and others through, possibly even an unconscious, adherence to unselfish love. Not knowing His name does not lock you out from gaining eternal life. It is also why no man can boast (as if they've earned salvation), God by His grace provided the call, Jesus by His obedience paid the price, and all men are saved through love and a faith that results in works.

True Christians are Called, Chosen and Faithful – Scripture tells that the people who return with Jesus are; called (everyone is called?), chosen (many are called, few are chosen, I believe means we have put faith in the call and are therefore chosen) and faithful (faithful unto death, then He will give us a crown of life)

Church – Commonly defined today as the building attended on Sunday with those in attendance being Christians. Scripture defines the church as those who are true believers being fitly placed together to create the body of Christ these attend many different denominations with some attending no service at all

Baptism – in water is an outward sign of dying with Christ to this world and its desires (repentance) and being raised up to new life. It is an act that builds our faith for the true ‘one baptism’; John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19 is used to prove the necessity of water baptism but it should have been translated as making a group of people by immersing them in the experiential knowledge of what it is to be a “Christian”, a relationship to the Father (as the source), the Son (as the image) and Holy Spirit (as the comforter and seal of our salvation).

Sabbath – Saturday is the Sabbath however scriptures indicate that the early Christians gathered on Sunday. The Sabbath observance was ordained by God as part of the covenant with Israel and is the only one of the Ten Commandments not covered by adhering to a lifestyle of love. So the Sabbath can be observed to honor God or realized as one day the same as others, both please God (Romans 14:5).

Tithing – The tithe was a commandment to the Israelites to provide for the priests ministering to them, and for those in need. It clearly required 10% of your increase. I question churches laying claim to something clearly spelled out for Levites, however we are told that God is pleased with cheerful givers, our offerings are best done by helping those who minister to us and to help those in need, going first to those of the household of faith. We will answer to God for how we used what He provided for us.

Offence – I do not have to agree with the “offence” taken by another and I should be clear of where I stand, but my actions should be tempered for the sake of the other's conscience thus showing my love. But I'm still free to participate when not with that individual and if he hears of it later than he should not offended as they knew where I stood but is encouraged that I had refrained while with them, out of love, not agreement.

Jesus’ death – Jesus died on what to us is Wed. evening near sunset the very time that the lamb was slain for Passover. For the Israelites one day changed to another at sunset so Jesus was dead for 24 hours of Thursday (annual Sabbath), 24 hours of Friday (prepared the spices and waited for the 3 day “seal” to expire), and 24 hours of Saturday (the weekly Sabbath), the resurrection occurred what for us would be Saturday evening near sunset. This had Jesus dead at the 3 days and 3 nights just as He had proclaimed as the only sign to be given.

Predestination – God does not know with absolute certainty the details of the future but can with certainty proclaim an outcome based on His power and wisdom to move the pieces on the board to arrive at His desired conclusion.

Death – Scripture states that death is sleep. Does the brain cease to function during sleep? Or is our consciousness dis-associated from our body (unconscious)? I believe that the soul upon death leaves the body, and in OT times it went to Sheol, a holding area for souls awaiting judgment (split into two sections). However since Jesus paid the price for man’s sins and He lead the captive souls free, the ones on the paradise side to heaven, now all those who believe in what God did through His Son go directly to heaven to await resurrection. Scriptures tell us “even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” (Otherwise how could He bring what is already here “sleeping” in their grave).

Judgment – God will resurrect the dead; first will be the Judgment seat of Christ, where all believers answer for the things done in this body, after which they take part in the millennium. After the 1000 years are complete every remaining soul will be resurrected at which time God will balance the books (so to speak). At the great white throne judgment God will separate those found worthy by His law of love for entrance into the kingdom from those to be punished.

Heaven – I do not believe that people are given a second chance, but there will be those surprised by their admittance (sheep/goats), yet there are also those surprised by their entrance being barred, “Lord didn't we…” However scriptures indicate that those given eternal life do not go to heaven for eternity but will remain on earth (the Kingdom of God) ruling and reigning with Christ.

Hell – Many teach that nearly all the people who have ever lived will suffer in eternal torment in hell. This has been based on a translation of the word aion which has translated as eternal, everlasting, forever this is offered as the proof within the scriptures that punishment goes on forever,
However the translation for aion only means endless when it derives its meaning or endlessness from the nature of the subject to which it is connected. Best translated as “The entirety of time for the object being discussed”. Hence when applied to God it is certainly to be considered unending, when applied to smoke rising, until the consumption of the item being burned, and to the torment of the wicked, until all has been paid. God will not torture a non-believer for eternity
For those being punished, the punishment will be proportional to their “sins” endin
g in annihilation. Eternal life is promised to believers and gifted to adherents, it is not something possessed by all of mankind. Eternal torment is not torment for eternity but torment to completion with eternal consequences. This concept is in keeping with the justice that God requires but with the Love that God is.

Lake of Fire – I believe that when sin was first found in satan it was only apparent to God. The trouble was God knew that the sin in satan would spread and ruin all of Heaven itself. So He created the Lake of Fire to destroy the irredeemable (which I believe that those exposed to Gods glory and still allow sin a place cannot be redeemed). But if He were to throw satan in prior to his sins being apparent to the rest of Heavens inhabitants, they would not see the Love and Justice of God as obviously satan was popular and I do not believe that satan had done anything openly evil (something Heaven’s inhabitants probably didn't understand anyway).

I believe it was at this point God created man with the express purpose of exposing what sin would do if allowed to run unchecked and to show the length He would go and the price He would pay to redeem His creation if it was possible.

We know that God has His faithful angels and we're told satan has his but I believe that there are still those sitting on the fence. In Revelation where we are told that war breaks out in heaven and this is where I think the host of heaven has had their fill of satan's ways and expel him and his from heaven.

As Christ begins His reign, satan will be thrown into the abyss. After a thousand years he will be released from his prison to further demonstrate both the inclination of flesh to sin and why satan cannot be redeemed and has to be thrown into the lake of fire.

Now God, who would have been reduced in stature had He have tried to explain His actions, is glorified for His; Grace, Wisdom, Holiness, Love and Forgiveness. He has also gained more sons proven through fire than He lost to satan.

Now all of creation is purged and the Father becomes all in all.

[Summary – A revelation may provide new understandings but never outside of the scriptures. In other words it is a corrective “revelation” to what was previously error(s) in our belief.

God has never spoke to me audibly, but it is an intangible thought, an urgency within, that drives me to a revelation that is not new, but new to me. I've always found that these “new revelations” fit better with the whole of scripture.

And I believe the Spirit has led me at times in writing, sometimes when I finish and although I was conscience of the research, the composing, and the entry, after reading it, in my mind I'll think “I didn't know that”.  So in the end those postings have helped me the most, I know now what I believe, and why I believe it. If that sound arrogant I apologize, I realize my writings may be simple to some, but I'm simpler and they have produced thoughts beyond my intellect, and I at least feel humbled by the experience.

God has used many others to lead me to the truths I have and it is the inner guidance of His Spirit that has led me around many of the false teachings from others. So all glory is due to God for what He has done in my life, the errors I still have are due to my hardness, but I give them over to God for His correction.\

I do not believe I have all truth despite having searched for it for over 30 years now. I also believe I have errors in what I believe to be true, having been deceived despite; my best efforts, asking God for guidance, and being willing to forsake any and all beliefs to find it. But God looks on the heart He knows my deep desire for truth and I believe He is pleased despite any mistakes I may have made. Note – While I hold most of my beliefs as subject to change I do not hold my relationship with the Father with that same uncertainty, He, as represented by His Son, is Truth, and love will never fail. We are saved by our relationship, both to God and to man. Love overcomes both sin and errors in doctrine, it is my relationship with the Father that compels me to not sin and to do good works, it does not work the other way around.
For now we should love all people, help where possible, and we should seek fellowship with believers, but we need to be cautious of those things that draw us away from God.

Love Dad

[Lightenup]

Hi William,
Can you please clarify something for me regarding this statement that you wrote:

Quote

The Father is best understood as being like our soul, embodying self (God in this case), exerting His will over His corporeal extension (the future begotten Son). So just as a human being's body provides our soul with its interface to the world, so the “pre-incarnate” Jesus was God's extension to interface with us. Of course later I believe that this manifested “body” of which we were made after, (“our image”) would provide the DNA (or whatever) to allow the Father, to father, His only begotten Son.

Was the pre-incarnate one a separate person from the Father or a part of the Father? Did the pre-incarnate one have a separate will from which He chooses to obey His Father, or did the pre-incarnate one not have a separate will from the Father and therefore naturally cooperated with the Father because there was no other option except to cooperate, i.e. like our body parts obey our will and don't have a will of their own.

Thanks,
Kathi

[seekingtruth]

Kathi,
It's a struggle, trying to describe an infinite God, with a finite understanding, limited even further by an inadequate language to describe items outside our reality, but if we could put God in a box, then He probably wouldn't be God anyway.

I believe that as the Father from outside/above our reality spoke the foundation of our reality into existence, creating the 'law of physics' (so to speak), that His 'Word' manifested within these new 'rules' an image of the Father, complete in every way except limited by the nature of the 'environment' (a finite representation of an infinite being).

I believe at this point, although He was a separate being, He was more of an extension of the Father into our reality and it wasn't until His 'incarnation' that He became totally separate, having as with all humans a soul and spirit. As I mentioned above, I believe that this physical extension's essence was used to impregnate Mary and that gave birth to a full human who was both the son of man/Son of God Who after His resurrection was both capable and worthy of being given (by the Father) all power and authority in heaven and earth.

Hope this clarifies my thoughts on this, like a flame I cannot describe what it is but I know a lot about it's attributes, I arrived at this belief as it seemed to me to be what was implied by scripture. I know that everyone has their own idea on the 'make up of God' but this is what I have arrived at. I am however quite interested if someone knows of scriptures that that show this to be in error.

My opinion – Wm

[terraricca]

seekt

Quote

I believe at this point, although He was a separate being, He was more of an extension of the Father into our reality and it wasn't until His 'incarnation' that He became totally separate, having as with all humans a soul and spirit. As I mentioned above, I believe that this physical extension's essence was used to impregnate Mary and that gave birth to a full human who was both the son of man/Son of God Who after His resurrection was both capable and worthy of being given (by the Father) all power and authority in heaven and earth.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.

Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,

and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,

you say ;separate being then you say a extention of the father,then he is incarnated ?? is this what scriptures says ??

Pierre

[seekingtruth]

Thank you pierre,
I believe the first two verses support what I postulated.

I know that many people believe that Proverb 8 is a teaching about Jesus but I believe it is a teaching on the spirit of wisdom which is one of the sevenfold Spirits of God.

Proverbs 8:11 “For wisdom is better than jewels; And all desirable things cannot compare with her. (Jesus is not female)

Acts 6:3 “full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may set over this necessity,” (separate from Holy Spirit)

Revelation 1:4 “from the Seven Spirits that are before His throne,”

My opinion – Wm

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