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The term “Born Again” is one of the most used phrases among present day religious people. Yet, if asked what the term “Born Again” means, ninety percent of the world’s church members could not give a clear explanation. The vital importance of this study is shown in that Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Here Jesus is saying that TO BE BORN AGAIN IS TO BE SAVED. Being born again is the plan of salvation that Jesus authored at Calvary. It is imperative that we understand what is required for us to be born again!
All agree that when Jesus went to the cross, he brought in the means of salvation for everyone who will accept it. But what really happened at Calvary? What can it do for me? How do I accept what was done there in my own personal life?!
Death, Burial and Resurrection
Let us first consider what really happened at Calvary. There were three steps to the work of Christ-death, burial, and resurrection. It is very easy to see that these three steps make up the act of being born again spoken of by Jesus. To die, to be buried, and to rise again-that’s to be born again. So we see that Jesus through his death, burial, and resurrection bought for us the plan of being born again spoken of in John 3:3, whereby we receive salvation.The fact that Jesus purchased a plan of salvation for us is the greatest news the world has ever received. The thing we must understand is that not only was it necessary for Jesus to do something, but also it is absolutely essential for us to act upon what he did. Jesus told Nicodemus, “Ye MUST be born again” (John 3:7).
Now the astonishing thing is that Nicodemus was a religious leader of his day; yet, he had no conception of what it meant to be born again! We find that the very same thing is true in the day in which we live. Many men who fill positions of spiritual leadership in our world have no real understanding of the “Born Again” experience. Nicodemus inquired of Jesus in John 3:4, “How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?” Jesus answered, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus, you can’t be born again of a woman. The second birth is a spiritual birth.
What Must We Do?
Notice that Jesus said without being born again we cannot see or enter the kingdom of God. In other words, we cannot be saved. On the day of Pentecost when Peter preached the first message after Calvary, the men cried out, “What must we do?”“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost” (Acts 2:38).
Here Peter was giving to them the plan of salvation-repentance, baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. If being born again is to be saved, Peter was evidently talking to them about being born again.
Remember, there were three steps to Calvary death, burial, and resurrection. The way to accept Calvary in our individual life is to accept the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. We don’t have to literally die, literally be buried, and literally rise again. Jesus was our substitute and did this for us. All we must do is accept what he did by spiritually dying, symbolically being buried, and spiritually rising again.
We take on his death by repentance which is spiritual death. When a person truly repents, he dies out to his own will, renounces it forever, and vows to live from that time on according to the will of Jesus Christ.
We take on his burial by baptism in water, by immersion into His name. Romans 6:4 says, “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism”. Baptism MUST be done by immersion; for something cannot be buried by sprinkling a little dirt on the top of it. That burial after a few days would certainly prove to be insufficient! Furthermore, EVERY baptism of which we have Biblical record was administered by immersion. That alone should determine our course of action on this matter.
Finally, we partake of the resurrection of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Ghost. This is the new life that enables us to live as a Christian should.
Spirit, Water and Blood
We see then that being born again means to spiritually die-repent, symbolically be buried-baptism, and spiritually rise again-receive the Holy Ghost. Thus, in plain language an individual must repent of his sins, be baptized into the name of Jesus Christ by immersion, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. IJohn 5:8 tells us,“And there are three that bear witness in the earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
What is the one thing in which the spirit, water, and blood agree? Is it not the new birth? Blood covers our sins at repentance; the waters of baptism wash them away, thus making us clean for the spirit to come into our lives to dwell. When the Roman soldiers thrust the spear into Jesus’ side after he died, the scripture tells us that there came forth blood and water (John 19:34). This was for cleansing of the nations. It takes blood and water to eradicate sin. Blood is the cleansing agent, and water is the flushing agent. When a jar is washed for canning, soap AND water are necessary to cleanse that jar so that it might be filled with good fruit. Likewise, blood and water are necessary to cleanse the human soul so that it may receive the spirit of Christ which is the Holy Ghost. This teaching was verified by Peter when he said, “Repent and be baptized FOR the REMISSION of SINS” (Acts 2:38). Repentance and baptism are both absolutely essential for the remission of sins!
Paul taught that the three steps of Calvary was the gospel that we should preach. In I Corinthians 15:1-4 he tells us,
“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED IN VAIN. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ DIED for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was BURIED, and that he ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the scriptures:”.
Obey the Gospel
Paul went on the say in II Thessalonians 1:7-8,“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Paul told us that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. How can we OBEY the death, burial, and resurrection? by repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost as we have previously explained. Notice that the Lord Jesus is to appear “in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel.” It is absolutely necessary for every human being to obey the gospel by being BORN AGAIN. Jesus told Nicodemus, “Ye MUST be BORN AGAIN” (John 3:7).
Old Testament Speaks of Born Again Plan
Let us consider another Biblical lesson given to us concerning this subject. The Bible teaches us that the things of the Old Testament were types and shadows of the things to come. When the priests of the law ministered by offering sacrifices, there were three major steps to their duties.Repentance
First they slew the animal to be offered on the brazen altar. The blood here was shed and caught in a container for use in the Holy Place. The flesh of the animal was to be consumed by fire. This teaches us of the first step of salvation-repentance. When we repent, we present our bodies a living sacrifice, and our sins are covered by the blood of Jesus.Water Baptism
After the shedding of blood, the priests were ordered to wash a
t the laver and to cleanse themselves with water in preparation for entering the Holy Place. The laver, a round fountain-like structure, was overlaid in the bottom with a looking glass. When the priests bent over to wash, he was able to see himself so that he could be sure that he was clean. When an individual is baptized, he should examine himself to be sure that he is leaving the world behind once and for all. We see then that the second step of the tabernacle ministration plainly teaches us of water baptism. Blood and water cleansed them to prepare them for entry into the Holy Place, even as blood and water cleanses us in preparation of receiving the Holy One into our lives!The Holy Ghost and Fire
After cleansing, the priest would then take the fire from off of the brazen altar and would enter through the veil into the Holy Place. The Holy Place had no doors or windows through which light could come. The only light to be provided here was to come from the golden candlesticks. These candlesticks consisted of seven wicks fed by oil from seven bowls. The wicks had to be lit with the fire brought by the priest from the brazen altar. The uniting at the candlesticks of the oil and fire to produce light is a perfect type of the Holy Ghost and fire promised to New Testament believers (Matthew 3:11). Without the light of the Holy Ghost, we could not see to live in the Holy Place which is where every Christian should live. God spoke of His great plan of redemption in the Old Testament in types and shadows; and then in the New Testament He spoke plainly to us so that we would have no doubt of His will! Once again we recall the words of 1 John 5:8, “There are three that bear witness in the earth, the SPIRIT, the WATER, and the BLOOD; and these three agree in one”. This Old Testament lesson beautifully reaffirms to us the absolute necessity of the full Born Again plan in each life for salvation!Some Common Misconceptions
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
Acts 16:30-31 reads this way, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Many have taken this scripture to teach that all that is required for salvation is to believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world; and from that point on, the individual is saved. It is definitely true that an individual must believe that Jesus is the Savior in order to be saved. However, Paul, who spoke these words in Acts 16, has some further teaching on the subject in Romans 10:13-15. Let’s consider the text: “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him OF WHOM they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?” If we wanted to be absurd, we could take this thirteenth verse to teach that all an individual must do for salvation is to call out the name of Jesus one time and he has received salvation. Paul tells us they can’t call on him in whom they have not believed. Furthermore, he said that they can’t believe in him OF WHOM they have not heard. We cannot merely believe. We must believe SOMETHING about Christ. When Paul told the jailer in Acts 16 to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, he went on to speak unto him the word of the Lord (verse 32). The word which Paul spake was apparently the GOSPEL; for the result in verse 33 was that the jailer and all his house were baptized at midnight. That’s how essential baptism is for salvation. Paul took all these people out AT MIDNIGHT and baptized them!Faith Made Perfect
Some would object here by saying that we are saved by faith alone. It is true that we are saved by faith, but it is also true that true faith always produces action on the part of the believer. Let’s study from James 2:14-22 to verify this point.
“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or a sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works; shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works IS DEAD? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thus how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”
When an individual believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, what do they believe about him? They believe the gospel, which is the death, burial, and resurrection (I Corinthians 15:1-4). James teaches us that faith without action is dead, or it is not really faith at all. When a sinner hears the true gospel and truly believes, he will obey the gospel. An individual obeys the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ by repentance, baptism, in Jesus’ name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking with other tongues. (Write for our free booklet “Tongues-Devilish or Divine”). This is the salvation of Calvary! “Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (or complete).
Not By Works
If you are still having trouble conceding to this teaching because of the element of works involved, let’s reason concerning one more point. Being born again-repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost is not considered by God to be a work. In Titus 3:5 we are taught, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost;”. This scripture tells us that regeneration which is being born again is NOT a work of righteousness.Concluding this matter, we will cite a familiar Biblical example. In the great revival at Samaria in Acts 8:5-23, a sorcerer named Simon heard the preaching of Philip. He believed and was baptized and continued with Philip beholding the signs and miracles which were done. Many people would say that because Simon believed, he was saved. Yet the Apostle Peter said of him in Acts 8:23, “For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.”
It is impossible for anyone in the bond of iniquity to be saved; for the scriptures tell us, “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed” (John 8:36). Simon believed and was baptized, but he had not received the Holy Ghost; therefore, he was not born again. We cannot be half-born and survive. The entire work of Calvary is necessary for our salvation.
The Thief on the Cross
Many have asked, “If an individual must repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost for salvation, how was the thief on the cross with Jesus saved?” (Luke 23:38-43). First of all, it was impossible for anyone to be born again at this time, for the born again plan was not yet complete. Jesus had not died, been buried, and risen again. God has always had a plan of salvation for each dispensation of time. In Noah’s day the only way of salvation was to get in the ark. In Moses’ day the only plan was the law. In the church dispensation, the only way to be saved is to be born again. Jesus told Nicodemus, “Ye MUST be Born Again.”Conclusion
May we point out as we conclude this study that we have been given the first church and the Apostles after which to pattern our teaching and practices. In each recorded account of conversions under the Apostles’ ministries, the three steps of being born again are evident. In Acts 2:38, it was repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. In Acts 8:12, Acts 10:44-48, and Acts 19:1-6, we find the born again experience taught and received. Why should we vary from this practice when we are to be buil
t on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone? Do not allow anything to turn you aside from this truth-You must be BORN AGAIN. If you haven’t as yet, you should do so TODAY!By Irvin Baxter
John 3:6-8 (King James Version)
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
No death, burial and resurrection needed The Holy Spirit goes where it chooses to go and no one can judge why or set conditions on it
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Acts 8:17-19You still haven't said why the theif was saved and he was indeed saved if Jesus said he was and there was no blood atonement, He believed Jesus was sent from God and therefore believed God and was born again.
There is no need to create theories the scripture speaks for itself
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 22 2010,16:09) John 3:6-8 (King James Version) 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
No death, burial and resurrection needed The Holy Spirit goes where it chooses to go and no one can judge why or set conditions on it
Greetings B….Needless to say,you question the Born Again doctrine and you bring valid scriptual proof that perhaps this is an area worthy of study and discussion…To be born again I would think first you must die(InChrist)and then be resurected
as a spirit being in a glorified body in the kingdom of God…This would give credence to John 3:6…Flesh is Flesh and Spirit is Spirit…I have difficulty with the teachings that say we can be born again while still being carnal flesh…through Baptism and subsequent repentance we may be justified and possess the spirit of God for the purpose of instruction,but we are not spirit beings…“Born again” is an insult to your parents, whom Jesus told you to hate in order to follow him. Of course that is the myth recorded by whoever wrote the gospels. There is no way you could pin any of that on Jesus though, if indeed he did really exist. Decades of Chinese whispers followed by anonymous writing in a period characterised by allegorical prose is hardly a good basis for believing something to have been said verbatim.
There was nothing wrong with the first birth, and I think it is a mistake to allow a religious cult to tell you otherwise. If it is only allegorical then it is still a nasty statement.
Stuart
So much has been written, so much must be written, so much more will be written.
Yet, few will understand.
To be 'born again' is actually quite easily understood if one thinks 'in the Spirit'.
Virtually all the times that Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of Heaven, and all things concerning his Father and life after death, he was speaking of a 'Spirit life'.
'Come close' and understand this: 'Life is in the Spirit'
Earthly man thinks in the Flesh and cannot lift his eyes to see through his inner Spirit.Sin is in the flesh. Jesus calls for us to put off the flesh and be received in the Spirit.
Flesh and blood cannot be received in Heaven because Heaven is the abode of Spirit creatures.
If we continue to live in the flesh, how can we expect to occupy the heavenly realm?
But for all that, how does one 'put off the flesh'?
Well, what does Jesus and the Scriptures say?
Do not crave earthly riches.
Do not crave women and casual sexual encounters.
Do not drink alcohol to excess.
Do not speak against God, Jesus and more importantly, the Holy Spirit.
Do not seek your daily, or long term needs from any other than God Almighty.
Do not seek your own pleasures over those of your needy neighbour.
Seek the True God, YHVH, call him Father.
Read, understand, emulate, the ways of Jesus Christ.
Live within God's laws.
Live within man's law but let God's laws override if there is conflict between the two.
Worship God, the Father, Glorify the Son.
Encourage the true brother and sister.
Shun the fakery of flashy 'dust'. The Spirit has no dealings with 'dust'.
Forgive the carnal sin from your fellow.
Allow yourself to be sinned against, even taking on the sin of another if it is then more easily forgiven.
Even so, Jesus, having shared in our humanity, understands our failings and has not left us without a helper, for which he, being flesh, had to leave to be in the Spirit. He sent the omnipresent 'Comforter', the Holy Spirit of his Father, who would be our reminder, teacher, strengthener, source of knowledge, supporter, enforcer, encourager, empowerer, all these and more, but…by measure, as much as our own belief and strength can take, so at all times, it is only our own limitation by lack of belief that prevents us from a fuller indwelling of the Spirit of God.God apportions gifts by his own grace. Some receive the gift of plenty and some the gift of less.
Believe it or not but those with less are closer to God in the base instance.However, the lesser desires the greater and he that has the greater desires even more.
The greater must learn restraint, must learn to give, must desire to be wise with his gifts but seldom is.
The lesser must learn to be satisfied but yet also seek to do better without delving in sin, frustration, cravings, jealousy, highmindedness, these drivers draw the lesser to seek too great a greater beyond their limits..and yet even so they can seldom sustain their new position because it is artificial and thus they must fall deeper into sin to maintain themselves.
The greater cannot relinquish what he has, believing that it is his right to retain his pleasure for himself. Does not understand his 'test', jealousy, greed, avarice, highmindedness, pontification, austerity, granduer, the high position. Many other such things.
Vices, the commonality of the two. The desires of the flesh in all its forms, draws a veil over that which is Godly, imagining that this is hiding the sin from the 'eyes' of the Spirit.
And the pretence of 'godlyness' by scurging the testiment of Jesus, distorting his words and twisting the truth therein so that their conscience allows them to commit carnal unrighteousness in the belief that it is righteousness. And teach others thus. Leading the little ones, the innocent, theweak and humble, away into the way death and destruction in the flesh … And the Spirit.Quote (theodorej @ July 22 2010,22:44) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 22 2010,16:09) John 3:6-8 (King James Version) 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
No death, burial and resurrection needed The Holy Spirit goes where it chooses to go and no one can judge why or set conditions on it
Greetings B….Needless to say,you question the Born Again doctrine and you bring valid scriptual proof that perhaps this is an area worthy of study and discussion…To be born again I would think first you must die(InChrist)and then be resurected
as a spirit being in a glorified body in the kingdom of God…This would give credence to John 3:6…Flesh is Flesh and Spirit is Spirit…I have difficulty with the teachings that say we can be born again while still being carnal flesh…through Baptism and subsequent repentance we may be justified and possess the spirit of God for the purpose of instruction,but we are not spirit beings…
1 Peter 1:22-25 (King James Version)22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
There are only 3 times the term “Born again” is mentioned and it is certainly focused on repenting from the evil and clinging to God anew so that one may have eternal life when the flesh is no more it should be noted here that the scripture says:
John 3:16 (King James Version)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
So it should be clear that God does love your flesh and spirit if he did nothe would not have called it “very good”
Quote (Stu @ July 22 2010,23:11) “Born again” is an insult to your parents, whom Jesus told you to hate in order to follow him. Stuart
Hi Stuart,The word 'hate' here [μισέω (miseó) mis-eh'-o] means: “Love less” NOT HATE!
The AKJV translators had to translate strictly “word for word” so they
could not translate [μισέω] to “Love Less” as it should have been.Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and
children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgBod,
Your last statement, at least, is false.
It was not FLESH that God called “Very Good” but the whole of what man was: a physical living self sustaining entity with a spirit.
This was a great achievement. Prior there had only been Spirit Creatures who were locked into the word of God, like a programmed computer, or robot. Now, a selfwilled independent creature, like a selfwilled Robot, was created – it could do, within limits, what God could do by itself; create, judge, think, manage, think, be aware of itself, think, design, procreate, think, know God… Yea, it was “Very Good”.Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,11:20) Bod, Your last statement, at least, is false.
It was not FLESH that God called “Very Good” but the whole of what man was: a physical living self sustaining entity with a spirit.
This was a great achievement. Prior there had only been Spirit Creatures who were locked into the word of God, like a programmed computer, or robot. Now, a selfwilled independent creature, like a selfwilled Robot, was created – it could do, within limits, what God could do by itself; create, judge, think, manage, think, be aware of itself, think, design, procreate, think, know God… Yea, it was “Very Good”.
Then my statement could not be false.“a physical living self sustaining entity with a spirit.”
Sounds “Very Good” This entire world was created for the flesh to sustain itself for the Spirit in man came from God
Quote (Ed J @ July 23 2010,10:37) Quote (Stu @ July 22 2010,23:11) “Born again” is an insult to your parents, whom Jesus told you to hate in order to follow him. Stuart
Hi Stuart,The word 'hate' here [μισέω (miseó) mis-eh'-o] means: “Love less” NOT HATE!
The AKJV translators had to translate strictly “word for word” so they
could not translate [μισέω] to “Love Less” as it should have been.Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and
children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Yes, the point of the verse is to say do not be attached to them whereas you will not act on your best interest.Luke 14:26-29 (English Standard Version)
26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters,yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. 28For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? 29Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,Notice he says they must bear their own cross and be responsible for themselves estimating if they should be a disciple because if they are unsure it may turn out they turn back after breaking away from his normal community and ties.
Since they didn't use words like “like” Love or Hate being extreme were not as extreme to those people in that day
Bod,
Struggle on.
I can make an aquarium very easily. I can plant freshwater plants, oxygenating plants, lay down sand, add little frilly things like rock caverns, pool lights, water heaters, dark areas, light areas, sectioned of areas for spawning, etc, and it will be good. I can introduce different types of fish: Guppies, Neon Tetras, Cat Fish, Mollies, one or two tiger fish, whatever, and it will be good.
But what will be “VERY GOOD” is if they can all live and breed, and all be sustained in that 'created environment', together.
Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,12:06) Bod, Struggle on.
I can make an aquarium very easily. I can plant freshwater plants, oxygenating plants, lay down sand, add little frilly things like rock caverns, pool lights, water heaters, dark areas, light areas, sectioned of areas for spawning, etc, and it will be good. I can introduce different types of fish: Guppies, Neon Tetras, Cat Fish, Mollies, one or two tiger fish, whatever, and it will be good.
But what will be “VERY GOOD” is if they can all live and breed, and all be sustained in that 'created environment', together.
How are you making a point that disagrees with mind?You are saying the same thing
ok,
I'm just shocked pink that someone has actually agreed with me – i'm just so used to saying that everyone is wrong.
Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,14:18) ok, I'm just shocked pink that someone has actually agreed with me – i'm just so used to saying that everyone is wrong.
Quote (Stu @ July 22 2010,23:11) “Born again” is an insult to your parents, whom Jesus told you to hate in order to follow him. Of course that is the myth recorded by whoever wrote the gospels. There is no way you could pin any of that on Jesus though, if indeed he did really exist. Decades of Chinese whispers followed by anonymous writing in a period characterised by allegorical prose is hardly a good basis for believing something to have been said verbatim. There was nothing wrong with the first birth, and I think it is a mistake to allow a religious cult to tell you otherwise. If it is only allegorical then it is still a nasty statement.
Stuart
Greetings Stu…..The statement to be born again was not intended in a literal sense, as for, we all know that is a physical impossibility that trancends any insults….The teachings of Jesus say nothing of hating your parents, as a matter of fact the fifth commandment says you are to honor them so your days on this earth will be long…The born again teaching pertains to being born as a spirit after your resurection into the kingdom or government of God…Quote (theodorej @ July 23 2010,23:01) Quote (Stu @ July 22 2010,23:11) “Born again” is an insult to your parents, whom Jesus told you to hate in order to follow him. Of course that is the myth recorded by whoever wrote the gospels. There is no way you could pin any of that on Jesus though, if indeed he did really exist. Decades of Chinese whispers followed by anonymous writing in a period characterised by allegorical prose is hardly a good basis for believing something to have been said verbatim. There was nothing wrong with the first birth, and I think it is a mistake to allow a religious cult to tell you otherwise. If it is only allegorical then it is still a nasty statement.
Stuart
Greetings Stu…..The statement to be born again was not intended in a literal sense, as for, we all know that is a physical impossibility that trancends any insults….The teachings of Jesus say nothing of hating your parents, as a matter of fact the fifth commandment says you are to honor them so your days on this earth will be long…The born again teaching pertains to being born as a spirit after your resurection into the kingdom or government of God…
I don't think it has to be taken literally to be an insult. The message is pretty clear: your upbringing was spiritually impoverished and you need this cure. Welcome to the army, uh I mean christianity! Forget your family, this is all you will ever need.Quote The teachings of Jesus say nothing of hating your parents,
We have no idea what Jesus actually taught, but the mythology of Jesus does actually quote him saying that. It is either “hate” or “love less” as Ed had it.Great family values in this religion, eh!
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ July 23 2010,23:48) Quote (theodorej @ July 23 2010,23:01) Quote (Stu @ July 22 2010,23:11) “Born again” is an insult to your parents, whom Jesus told you to hate in order to follow him. Of course that is the myth recorded by whoever wrote the gospels. There is no way you could pin any of that on Jesus though, if indeed he did really exist. Decades of Chinese whispers followed by anonymous writing in a period characterised by allegorical prose is hardly a good basis for believing something to have been said verbatim. There was nothing wrong with the first birth, and I think it is a mistake to allow a religious cult to tell you otherwise. If it is only allegorical then it is still a nasty statement.
Stuart
Greetings Stu…..The statement to be born again was not intended in a literal sense, as for, we all know that is a physical impossibility that trancends any insults….The teachings of Jesus say nothing of hating your parents, as a matter of fact the fifth commandment says you are to honor them so your days on this earth will be long…The born again teaching pertains to being born as a spirit after your resurection into the kingdom or government of God…
I don't think it has to be taken literally to be an insult. The message is pretty clear: your upbringing was spiritually impoverished and you need this cure. Welcome to the army, uh I mean christianity! Forget your family, this is all you will ever need.Quote The teachings of Jesus say nothing of hating your parents,
We have no idea what Jesus actually taught, but the mythology of Jesus does actually quote him saying that. It is either “hate” or “love less” as Ed had it.Great family values in this religion, eh!
Stuart
So you assume that “Family” is always genetic? If that is the case everyone ultimately is Family right?
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