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Yes. Me too.
Jason BeDuhn WHO IS NOT A JW, is a Greek scholar and Associate Professor of Religious Studies Department of Humanities, Arts, and Religion Northern Arizona University, where he teaches Greek. He holds a B.A. in Religious studies from the University of Illinois, Urbana, and M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in the Comparative Study of Religions from Indiana University, Bloomington. He is the author of many articles in the areas of Biblical Studies and Manichaean Studies, and of the book, The Manichaean Body: In Discipline and Ritual (Baltimore: The Johns Hopkins University Press, 2000), winner of the “Best First Book” prize from the American Academy of Religion.)
Jason BeDuhn compared 9 major translations, not with each other, but with the original Greek.
These include:
King James Version, New American Standard Bible, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version, New American Bible, Amplified Bible, Today's English Version (Good News Bible), Living Bible, and the New World Translation.
it compares them on key passages of the New Testament to determine their accuracy and identify their bias. Passages looked at include: John 1:1; John 8:58; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-20; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1. Also explored are passages involving “prostration” or “worship,” gendered language, the “holy spirit,” and the use of “Jehovah.”The following is taken from:
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworl….ook.htm“While critical of some of its translation choices, BeDuhn called the New World Translation a “remarkably good” translation, “better by far” and “consistently better” than some of the others considered. Overall, concluded BeDuhn, the New World Translation “is one of the most accurate English translations of the New Testament currently available” and “the most accurate of the translations compared.”—Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament.”
This website also quotes him as saying:
“My research has turned up real howlers in ALL of the translations listed above, the NWT included. But statistically the NWT ranks near the top of the comparison in its accuracy. The NAB also scores rather well. While the “Living Bible” and the TEV (“Good News”) Bible rank near the bottom, not because they are paraphrases, but because they introduce different meanings to the text they are supposed to be making clear to the general reader.
I have no personal stake in which Bible emerges as most accurate. My only stake is in informing the public about how theological bias has colored the translations they are using, and in providing them with tools to help them understand what the text behind the translations actually means. This is my job as a biblical scholar…..”Wikipedia notes the following:
“Some scholars have defended the translation, to some degree.[24]”. . . .
“24. Alan S. Duthie stated that the “Jehovah's Witnesses' NWT, which is certainly not 'filled with the heretical doctrines' …even though a few aberrations can be found. …Some have to condemn out of hand any version made by Jehovah's Witnesses…because they must be full of heresies…It is true that there are some heretical doctrines to be found in NWT (eg. the incoherent polytheism in Jn.1:1,… but the percentage of the whole Bible thus affected… does not reach even 0.1% of the whole, which is very far from 'full'. How To Choose Your Bible Wisely, Alan S. Duthie. pp. 30, 216 Jason BeDuhn stated “While it is difficult to quantify this sort of analysis, it can be said the NW[T] emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared.” Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament, 2004 p.163; J. D Phillips stated, “You have done a marvelous work…”; Allen Wikgren referred to it as “Independent reading of merit”; Benjamin Kedar , “ I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that [the OT] reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible….Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language … I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain.”; S. Maclean Gilmore, “The New Testament edition was made by a committee….that possessed an unusual competence in Greek.” The Andover Newton Quarterly, September 1966 Vol. 7, #1 p. 25,26; C. Houtman , in discussing translator bias stated “the [NWT] of the Jehovah's Witnesses can survive the scrutiny of criticism” Nederlands Theologisch Tijdschrift #38 1984 p.279-280; William Carey Taylor stated the NT of the NWT contains “considerable scholarship” The New Bible Pro and Con, 1955 p.75; Edgar Goodspeed, Robert M. McCoy, Steven T. Byington, Alexander Thompson, James Parkinson, and Thomas N. Winter also give favorable mention of the NWT.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….tnessesQuote (Is 1:18 @ April 01 2007,20:16) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 31 2007,21:55) I cant even find it on BibleGateway.com.
BibleGateway would not list the NWT because it's a not really a genuine translation, that word would imply actual “translators” were involved in generating it. Instead an assortment of highly-unqualified persons were involved, with not one of them having the requisite background in Biblical languages. What resulted was just what the WT wanted all along I suppose, an extremely biased paraphrase, doctored to endorse WT doctrines.http://www.carm.org/jw/nwt.htm
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm
http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/FranzNWT.htm
bingo… you win!!! lol…blessings,
kenQuote (david @ April 02 2007,07:10) I'm sorry Phoenix, but you are being lied to: Quote Quote What resulted was just what the WT wanted all along I suppose, an extremely biased paraphrase, doctored to endorse WT doctrines. Isaiah 'supposes' wrong. JW's have a history of making changes or alterations in their beliefs when the Bible shows that past beliefs weren't quite correct. If we stubbornly hold to our beliefs and wrote a Bible to support those beliefs, we must a done an extremely bad job.
Isaiah tends to know extremely little outside of his field of trinitarian thought. I would say that the NWT has among the least bias of any Bible.
For all the points that Is 1:18 might mention, see:
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworldtranslation/pageindex.htm
“Atrocious, deceitful, and inaccurate” may be what some call the NWT, but such a characterization is completely erroneous. Nearly every message I have received since the Watchtower article came out has claimed that “all reputable scholars,” “every Greek or biblical scholar,” etc. has condemned the NWT. It often sounds like people are getting this quote from the same source. But whatever the source, it is a lie. I have looked into the matter, and found almost no reviews of the NWT in academic journals. Most date from the 50s and 60s (the NWT has been improved since then). This kind of blanket condemnation of the NWT does not exist, for the most part because biblical scholars are far too busy to review WBTS publications which are considered outside of academic interest. It is simply something we don't pay attention to. I would welcome the names of any scholar who has written a review of the KIT or NWT; I am looking for these reviews, which seem few and far between. For [this]characterization to be correct, [a critic] would have to point out places in the NWT where the translators deliberately give a false meaning for a word or phrase. Not a meaning within the range of possibility for the Greek, but something actually false and ungrammatical. Despite dozens of contacts in the last month, no one has yet supplied a single example which shows deliberate distortion (and I have checked many passages suggested to me). The fact is that the NWT is what I call a “hyper-literal” translation, it sticks very close to the Greek, even making awkward English reading. There are a few places where the translators seem to have gone far out of their way, sometimes to clarify something suggested by the Greek, often for no apparent reason (maybe my ignorance of fine points of Witness theology prevents me from grasping what they are up to). And if you look at any other available translation, you will find similar instances where interpretation has been worked into the text in a way that stretches, if it does not violate the Greek. Every translation is biased towards the views of the people who made it. It is hard to judge who is right and who is wrong simply by comparing versions. You must go back to the Greek.”
Jason Beduhn on “worship” proskuneo
http://www.europa.com/~lynnlund/truthintrans.htmI believe that this is much like the evolutionary profferssors. You have to agree with them to be in their club. Anyone outside of the establishment is considered a quack and not taken seriously. But of course, evolution isn't a fact. It is something the ones who apprently know what they are talking about teach and their students teach it and you must learn it to be taken seriously.
It is the same with these Greek scholars. You are not a “real” scholar unless you accept what we (the old trinitarians) say.If you have any accusations against the NWT, please state them PHOENIX and I would be more than happy to dispell any myths or lies.
is 1:18 wrote that it is:
Quote extremely biased paraphrase
The fact that he called it a paraphrase when most scholars call it awkward to read because it isn't a paraphrase at all should make you seriously question Is 1:18's words. Wickipedia describes it as “literal; semi-legal.”
Are the scholars whom he supports right or wrong?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….slation
The reason our Bible is sometimes called a hard read is that it is meant as a study Bible.Wikipedia:
“The New World Translation is intended to be a literal rendering rather than a paraphrase.[2] To a very great extent, one English word has been selected for each Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic word and effort has been made to adhere to this rendering, context allowing. Some maintain that this makes the translation sound wooden, stiff or verbose, whereas others feel that it favors accuracy, facilitates cross-reference work and helps preserve the flavor of the original texts.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….slationSo it's odd that you'd have Is 1:18 saying it's a paraphrase when at the same time his scholars are attacking it for being wooden, stiff because it is what Jason debuhn describes as “hyper-literal.”
Back in 1950 the New World Translation Committee said,in answer to the charges in regard to the translators wishes to remain anonymous;
“The true scholarship behind the New World Translation will make itself known, not by the disclosure of the names of the translating committee, but by the faithfulness of the translation to the Greek text and by the reliable help it gives toward understanding God's written revelation to men. We are not troubled, therefore, by your thrust: “Albeit the identity of the translators is being withheld at their own request- they are not likely to make much impression on either Catholic or Protestant scholars. It is no wonder that the translators wish to remain unknown.”And in 1974 in The Watchtower, p768 again addressed this by answering the question of why did the members of the NWTTC wish to remain anonymous:
” ….These translators were not seeking prominence; they did not desire to draw attention to themselves. In the spirit of “doing all things for God's glory,” they wanted the reader to base his faith on God's Word, not on their worldly qualifications. (1 Cor. 10:31) Other translation committees have taken a similar view. The jacket of the Reference Edition (1971) of the New American Standard Bible states: “We have not used any scholar's name for reference or recommendations because it is our belief God's Word should stand on its merits.””Here is what the Wickipedia says:
UNDER JW’S, IN THE CONTROVERSY SECTION:
“Critics have also attacked the New World Translation, the translation of the Bible published by Jehovah's Witnesses. They state that the group has changed the Bible to suit their doctrine, and that the translation contains a number of errors and inaccur
acies.[99] Scholarly opinion on the quality of the New World Translation is divided, however.”If scholarly opinion is divided, then there would be some scholars on both sides. Is 1:18 presents another false picture.
Jason BeDuhn compared 9 major translations, not with each other, but with the original Greek.
These include:
King James Version, New American Standard Bible, New International Version, New Revised Standard Version, New American Bible, Amplified Bible, Today's English Version (Good News Bible), Living Bible, and the New World Translation.
it compares them on key passages of the New Testament to determine their accuracy and identify their bias. Passages looked at include: John 1:1; John 8:58; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-20; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1. Also explored are passages involving “prostration” or “worship,” gendered language, the “holy spirit,” and the use of “Jehovah.”The following is taken from:
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/newworl….ook.htm“While critical of some of its translation choices, BeDuhn called the New World Translation a “remarkably good” translation, “better by far” and “consistently better” than some of the others considered. Overall, concluded BeDuhn, the New World Translation “is one of the most accurate English translations of the New Testament currently available” and “the most accurate of the translations compared.”—Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament.”
This website also quotes him as saying:
“My research has turned up real howlers in ALL of the translations listed above, the NWT included. But statistically the NWT ranks near the top of the comparison in its accuracy. The NAB also scores rather well. While the “Living Bible” and the TEV (“Good News”) Bible rank near the bottom, not because they are paraphrases, but because they introduce different meanings to the text they are supposed to be making clear to the general reader.
I have no personal stake in which Bible emerges as most accurate. My only stake is in informing the public about how theological bias has colored the translations they are using, and in providing them with tools to help them understand what the text behind the translations actually means. This is my job as a biblical scholar…..”I guess I should mention that Jason Debuhn is a Greek scholar and Associate Professor of Religious Studies Department of Humanities, Arts, and Religion Northern Arizona University. He holds a B.A. in Religious studies from the University of Illinois, Urbana, and M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. in the Comparative Study of Religions from Indiana University, Bloomington. He is the author of many articles in the areas of Biblical Studies and Manichaean Studies, and of the book, The Manichaean Body: In Discipline and Ritual (Baltimore: The Johns Hopkins University Press, 2000), winner of the “Best First Book” prize from the American Academy of Religion.
Wickipedia notes the following:
“Some scholars have defended the translation, to some degree.[24]”. . . .
“24. Alan S. Duthie stated that the “Jehovah's Witnesses' NWT, which is certainly not 'filled with the heretical doctrines' …even though a few aberrations can be found. …Some have to condemn out of hand any version made by Jehovah's Witnesses…because they must be full of heresies…It is true that there are some heretical doctrines to be found in NWT (eg. the incoherent polytheism in Jn.1:1,… but the percentage of the whole Bible thus affected… does not reach even 0.1% of the whole, which is very far from 'full'. How To Choose Your Bible Wisely, Alan S. Duthie. pp. 30, 216. Jason BeDuhn stated “While it is difficult to quantify this sort of analysis, it can be said the NW[T] emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared.” Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament, 2004 p.163; J. D Phillips stated, “You have done a marvelous work…”; Allen Wikgren referred to it as “Independent reading of merit”; Benjamin Kedar , “ I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that [the OT] reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible….Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language … I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain.”; S. Maclean Gilmore, “The New Testament edition was made by a committee….that possessed an unusual competence in Greek.” The Andover Newton Quarterly, September 1966 Vol. 7, #1 p. 25,26; C. Houtman , in discussing translator bias stated “the [NWT] of the Jehovah's Witnesses can survive the scrutiny of criticism” Nederlands Theologisch Tijdschrift #38 1984 p.279-280; William Carey Taylor stated the NT of the NWT contains “considerable scholarship” The New Bible Pro and Con, 1955 p.75; Edgar Goodspeed, Robert M. McCoy, Steven T. Byington, Alexander Thompson, James Parkinson, and Thomas N. Winter also give favorable mention of the NWT.”
]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….B]Anyway, enough for now.
in particularQuote I would say that the NWT has among the least bias of any Bible. That is your unbiased opinion? lol… 😉
As far as those responsible, and I self consciously use that word, for the publication and writing of the NWT, Isiah is exactly right, as the early leadership of the JW's was forced to admit in a court hearing. They were simply not academically qualified to have participate in any “translation form the original languages” bible…. a paraphrase….? Sure… have at it… many people do that….
As far as Dr. Dr. BeDuhn is concerned, Dr. James White writes:
that BeDuhn “has his doctorate in Manichean studies. It is neither specific to nor specialized in New Testament. However, he does have a Master's degree in Theological Studies from Harvard Divinity School. Thus, I am certain he has had at least two years of Greek training. And, I am aware of at least one Greek manuscript of Manichean writings that he may have worked on at the doctoral level.I am sure he can clarify his own training and I am not attempting to poison the well, as it were, in terms of his scholarship. I only note that there is not much in the way of his writings, save one examination of a section of 1 Cor 11, and Truth in Translation (outside of online discourses) which gives any indication of his credentials as a biblical scholar. So, the reader must take him at his word when he tells us that he is a biblical scholar of the caliber he requires and, more importantly, that the translators he is critiquing, are not.
I would note, by way of contrast, that the New American Standard translators of the original and updated versions list over 50 scholars who's doctoral training is in New Testament or Old Testament language, backgrounds, culture, etc. This will be discussed more at another time. …
There is an additional claim of credibility that Dr. BeDuhn claims of himself that he does not grant others under review: He claims he is unbiased. He states on page xix, “I am a committed historian dedicated to discovering what Christians said and did two thousand years ago.” And, again, “If you are looking for my bias, I guess you could say that I have a bias in favor of historica
l truth, the accurate reconstruction and comprehension of the past.” He later defines bias as unrecognized blind spots, so one must wonder if he has confused motive and intention with bias in this comment.Again, by way of contrast, BeDuhn sees translators of popular versions this way: “The vast majority of Bible translations are produced by and for specific denominations of Christianity, or cooperatively among members of related denominations.” (BeDuhn, 8) And, again, “The responsibility of making new translations rests upon people who are largely ill-suited to the task, through no fault of their own. They do not have the full complement of training.” (BeDuhn, 10)
Now, do not misunderstand Dr. BeDuhn's characterizations of the translators. He does not assign to them malice or dishonesty. On the contrary, he contrasts malice and dishonest from bias. Biases, he argues, are unconscious assumptions or unrecognized blind spots. Thus, he does not believe that any translator is dishonest, only that they do not recognize when the translation ended and their interpretations began.
This is a fair criticism that all translators and scholars of any discipline share, but it is a little bothersome that while Dr. BeDuhn understands bias to be “unrecognized blind spots” he thinks that he has been able to inoculate himself from such a condition and he can somehow see that his “bias” is something virtuous and noble, such as pursuit of historical truth. Blind spots are so called because they cannot be seen, and thus the question is legitimately raised as to how he would see something that, by his own definition, he cannot see. Further, since these are unconscious assumptions, one must wonder how Dr. BeDuhn is sufficiently able to stand outside of himself and find the neutral ground one must accept and believe to be unbiased. Indeed, is it not a presupposed belief that there is an ability to completely remove one's bias?”for more on this, see http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2698
blessings,
kenWHAT IS RELIGION:
Please make note that when ever I refer to the word religion the definition would most accurately be, man’s ideas about God. Religion has some Truth and some error. Just because someone is writing about God doesn’t mean what he is writing is the Truth of God. You must read and discern what you perceive as Truth. The Truth about God will always make you feel good. If the warm, fuzzy feeling of Love is not there you may not be getting the Truth.
At the beginning, in Eden, God and Man communed together, one in one, God dwelling in man. There was no religion of any sort. No certain way to get to God. Man knew he was one with God and communed with him that way. Man went inside himself to ask questions and receive information from God. That’s right you have two voices in your head, one is you, that’s the louder one, the more dominant one that’s in charge of thoughts, ideas, and creations of the mind and then there is the loving lord God your partner in physicality. You can always know who is talking, if one voice or the other is peaceful, loving, kind, generous, friendly, happy, these are God informing and instructing but never pushing or telling what to do or not do. This was and is the form of communication man originally had with God. There were no churches to go to, no folding of hands, bowing of heads, getting dressed up, Sabbath days, no getting on your knee’s, rituals, dogmas, denominations etc. No outspoken, public prayers begging for money, or for show or begging God for a lucky ticket, no memorized rhetorical prayers by rote, and no rules, just oneness together. Here is an interesting picture for your mind; God made a physical body like an earth suit and put it on or breathed himself into it which made it alive or quickened it to life. God and Man now dwelling together as one human being. You might say God went into his Temple or house and the two become one being. If God could leave the physical body it would die because God is the life force of that body. There can be no separation for they are ONE together. As God gave of his soul and breathed life into the body it quickened & animated the earth suit and it became the living soul of God in a physical body. We shall call it God/Man. So ask yourself, where is God? He is your breath! God is the life force within you. As God is, I am! He has made you King (ruler) of your Kingdom/body, to rule all aspects of life and all choices of beliefs which makes a man what he is, yet you are still ONE with God. All other doctrines and ideas are just Religious rhetoric. All that exists is good. All that ever existed or is now in existence is in God and from God yet Man was given the controls of God/Man’s physical life. Then man who had control of the body and the mind began to chose what to believe and thereby experience the world through those beliefs. As with anything where choice is available there must be two or more opposing things to choose from. In the Garden of Eden Adam was warned not to believe there was good and evil. This choice would be between truth and error, or right and wrong, or life and death. Everything was perfect at that time, all was good. So the Truth of God was Good and to believe in evil was un-truth, error, deception, or sin. So, if a man believed in Good and evil he would experience whatever he chose to believe. Man believed in evil so evil would be experienced. Not because it is Truth because it is not! It’s a believed illusion of truth that Man will now deal with until he decides that Truth of God prevails and lets go of the evil belief. Evil is not of God so therefore it is a lie or deception of truth. So the appearance of choice in the Garden was a deception in the first place. Evil could not exist in God. So when man who was in control of what he chose to believe decided to believe a lie it was a created illusion of Truth. It wasn’t the Truth, it was a false belief of non-truth. Yet it now became a form of truth to the man who chose to believe it. Evil, deception, error, right & wrong, life and death, devils, satan, condemnation of one over another etc.! These things are not in God, therefore if a person believes only in Good/God he will not experience evil and all the death that went along with it. Evil was not an action or something done or not done. Evil was a created belief by man that anything could oppose or be in opposition to God or Good. Evil did not exist on earth until man accepted the idea in the Garden. Now ONE/Truth is split into, Truth and man’s illusion of truth. God’s Truth stands unchanged forever. Man’s illusions of evil are temporary until man finds his way back to perfection in ONENESS with God by believing Good only. One can only separate from God in his mind not in Truth. So, to, returning to God is reconciling the mind with the Truth that you never left in the first place. Because man chose to believe error he see’s good and evil/sin in his thoughts. Now man can ponder thoughts of worry, fear, death, misery, pain, suffering, anxiety, depression and all the byproducts of evil brought to earth by man’s thinking error/which is sin. Fear was instant because he feared he had done wrong and God was mad. That is an illusion of Truth. God never threatened punishment for making this choice. He said you will surely die which is the outcome but not a punishment. There is no wrong in freewill choices! You can never do anything that would separate you from God. To believe something could separate you from God is the ultimate sin! Sin is an error of thinking in the human mind that began a long progression of deeper errant thinking that took mankind further and further away from God in his mind. God/Man was separating himself from God by creating and believing more and more wrong thinking and thereby condemning himself in his own mind. Now man starts trying to appease God who he thought was mad. The more ideas man came up with to please God or pacify God the further away he fell away in his mind. This is the start of religion, man’s ideas of how to re- connect with God when he really never left. There can’t be separation, God is omnipresent, everywhere. Remember, God is your breath! You see, Adam wasn’t really apart from God he just believed he was. That’s sin, a mistaken perception of the Truth creating an illusion of Truth. God is Truth and Truth stands forever. There are beliefs, and opinions about the Truth, they can vary one way or the other. The Truth stands unchanged. When a person has a belief or opinion that is different than the Truth it is a lie. If believed it is an illusion of the Truth created by a human. Truth stays unchanged. Illusion is variable, beliefs without foundation. It is these thoughts and ideas, rituals, rules, doctrines etc. that I refer to as religion. God could not enter in and usurp mans authority to effect a change back to original. God had given the Earth to Man and all it’s fullness. It belonged to Man. God still cannot enter into world affairs and alter or change anything, only Man can. That’s why you must pray to God and let him know your requests of him because he cannot move on your behalf without permission! After centuries of mankind mentally falling away from God a savior was sent to earth in the form of Jesus/Christ to end the religious debauchery. God is undivided. God is good. God is not evil. There was only good, no evil. Man created religion! Religion is composed of man’s beliefs established over time, about God and what they believe God expects from man. The old testament of the Bible is a composite of events, records and here-say beliefs of man over approximately six thousand years that truly happened but were not necessarily a revelation of God. If a man writes in a book that; God sent us there to kill everyone, men, woman and children, it may be true that the man wrote that down but it is not necessarily truth that God sent them to kill! It may be what that particular scribe believed happened and so to him it is the truth but it is not
God‘s Truth. In addition, you must ask yourself which God you are referring too. There were many Gods revealed in the old testament and men were referred to as Lords. In the first three pages of Genesis you have God creating the heavens and the earth and you then have the Lord God who also created the heavens and the earth and then you have the Lord which was mans title. So if you waste the time to read the old testament remember that the True revelation of God’s character later revealed by Jesus the Christ was, God is Love! Now, if you say you follow Jesus, or Jesus is Lord, everything in the old testament must be in line with that statement from Jesus or it is incorrect. Love would never force or command you do or not do anything and certainly not take life by killing, but religion would! God would not command you not to kill, in the so-called “Ten Commandment’s” and then send you forth to wipe out entire communities of people, yet religion would. The God revealed by Jesus in the New Testament is no respecter of persons. He had no chosen people, or bloodline he did not favor anybody and had no enemies. Love does not hurt, harm or do anything to anybody. There was no chosen bloodline of people by God, or a people held in higher esteem more than others were! From Abraham throughout the Bible faith was the only connection of man to God. And that faith was God/Man, ONE! Religion does not say this. The stories of the Old Testament were written by and later translated by religiously tainted men free to embellish and alter a good story. You can choose to believe the miraculous stories as I do or you can believe that a loving God favored different people and sent them to kill and destroy others called enemies. You have the choice of what to believe as your Truth if it aligns with Jesus. You are right now in the process of creating your God/Self. Please recognize your personal choice’s of creating your God in your imagination by choosing what to believe about God. What you choose to believe is what your life will produce! The old testament is a composite of tales or stories about man’s experiences on earth. It seems to me that all of the men at that time believed in a God or Goddess of some sort. Some of the references you read that said God did this or said that was not talking about the same God as revealed by Jesus thousands of years later. They were allowed to believe and write what they believed to be true which also included things that were not true of the God of Jesus. From day one, God has allowed man to choose what he wanted to believe about God whether accurate or inaccurate, good or bad! One man can believe the fear of the Lord means respect, and another fears for his life and cowers before God. Mankind has always created religion. Religion is mans beliefs about God. Do you really think that the Source of all creation makes agreements, or secrete deals and covenants with special chosen brothers to be worshipers of him in exchange for protection and prosperity, like the Mafia of today might do? Does that even sound a tinny bit like Love? Peter later revealed the God of Jesus as “No respecter of persons”. It is your choice if you want to paint a wrong picture of God in your heart, read the old testament. Make the old testament your lord. If you want to know the Truth, read what Jesus said at least he had supernatural powers to back him up. The true source of creation, God the Father of all, has given mankind free will to choose his way in the Earth. Religion (or man’s beliefs about God) has been since Adams original belief of good and evil.
The original relationship with man and God was two in one. Man was the earthen human being with no life until God breathed into him his Holy Spirit which gave him life! God is mans life force. Without God, he dies! So, how close is God to man? God is within and all is good. There is no separation, and no place to go. When man births into the earth realm and takes a breath of God/Life, he has the life of God within and without, whether he is aware of it or not. There’s no where to go to find God, there are no rituals, no rules of what to do or say, no candles, no baby dedication, no alter, no sacrifices, no doctrines, no physical brick & mortar churches to find God and on and on. No way to dress, no way to look, no payment to be made, no special way to speak or pray. Just God and Man in union together. There is no Religion to find God! No etiquette or form of worship. No water baptism, no law, no ten commandments, no tithe (God never instituted a tithe, Abraham started it). Did you hear? Tithe your heart to God, not your money! For now just remember, the original communion with man and God had no requirements or form of any kind! It was one in ONE! That’s better communion than sharing juice and crackers at the church alter occasionally.Peace to all, TKHey Nick: In the Garden on Earth, there was God/Spirit and the newly formed earth/man. The earthly physical body was dead until God breathed life/Spirit into it which animated and quickened it to life.God is the Soul of Man. Its seems man was walking with God within and without. Man began to separate himself from God as he believed separation from God was possible.It is not.Thats a lie. Sin is believing anything could separate God from man. Man kept creating blockages in his mind that drove him further and further from God. God never moved. Man separated himself in his mind, through incorrect beliefs.Religion is mans continued incorrect beliefs. Doctrines, dogmas, rules, rituals etc. to get to God who in Truth never left! Jesus came to repair the Truth. He preached the end of Religion(the Old) and the return of the Kingdom of God within each person(the New or original way). Thank you for reading my beliefs! TK
Thanks Nick: Of course the breath of God is God. God is Spirit.Spirit is eveywhere. God has no boundaries or body other than mankind. God is all that is, for God is all there was in the beginning. Jesus was the spoken word of God. Jesus said his words were Spirit and life. Spirit is pneuma/air. All that is or ever will be. We are all one with the Father/God. Jesus said he was one with the Father and prayed that we all would be one together. Wrong thinking is the only barrier between man and God.As a man thinketh, so he is. We have the mind of Christ. If we don't recognize that, it will do us no good.If we do recognize the power that worketh in us we must beware of our thoughts and word expressions that create our lives. If we consume the words or true food of Christ we become what we eat (spiritually speaking)The word of God becomes flesh in a man again, born again. This is the immersion or baptism of the whole spirit. We must return to ONE with God as it always has been. We were blinded by sin/error thinking. Like blind men, searching for light. We were drunk with error. Religion has bound us with fetters and chains that are lies and untruth. Go here, go there, do this, don't do that. This is good, this is bad and on and on. Jesus came to reveal the original Truth. Repent, or turn around from the way you are going to try to serve God.(The Old Temple) Jesus said take my yoke its easy,my burden is light. Jesus is the sabbath rest of God. Enter his rest by believing, no works. By believing only are you made perfect, spotless, pure and clean before God. In God there is no evil, nothing unclean, no sin just purity. You are only pure by believing, not doing. If we let the Truth of Gods words wash us clean then there is no sin and no evil and we are ONE with the Father. There is so much more. I've spent 30 years learning my Truth, about 20 of those years have been alone with God. I don't believe anyone could read this and say it is death!Go to any so called church building and there you will likely find death. But to each his own, I thank you for reading it.If it feels good inside, its the Gospel. If it feels bad it is not the Gospel. With Love, TK
HI TK,
This is not a new age site.
God is calling all men to repentance that they might hear the voice of Jesus and be saved.WHAT IS SIN?
Lets talk about the sin that the entire religious world has built their dogmas, doctrines, rules, regulations, punishments, penalties, rules, doctrines etc. around! The word sin means error of thought, mistaken thinking, thought apart from Truth, an illusion of Truth. God said to man if you chose to believe there is evil, you will begin to die. You see, God is Life/Good/Truth/absolute with no opposite. In the beginning all was good. As God created he said, “it is good”! If one was to believe in evil also, they would have to split God into good and evil in their mind. They have now created life and death, good and bad & right and wrong in their own mind. This belief was not Truth. Man had the right to choose to believe anything he wanted to believe either of life or newly created death. In his mind now is life and the illusion of death. To this individual ONE has become TWO. His thoughts are from Good or the illusion of evil. Right and the illusion of evil. Both sides are believed as Truth yet one side is an Illusion of truth. Man is now double minded. Now there is the Truth of God and man created illusion of Truth available to believe. God never mentioned the word sin in in the Garden of Eden. In fact God didn’t speak of sin, or punishment, error or retribution in the Garden. God said if you ever believe there is an opposite to life you will begin to die! All God type creation starts in the mind with thought and then expression by word unto manifestation. If one believes in evil he will eventually manifest evil in this life. There cannot be bad and good where there is only good. There was no punishment in Hell or anywhere else for man choosing this belief yet things were going to change dramatically but not as a punishment. Please make note mentally that there is no Hell(a place of torture where God is NOT) or devil as a personage or being(every time you see the word devil, transpose it to a deceptive or deceiving thought). This is the beginning of Truth and the illusion of truth. Actually there is only, ONE/Absolute/ Good/God/Truth. The illusion of truth is believing in evil or anything contrary to that Truth. If Truth is absolute, non-truth can not be, so non-truth is an illusory creation of man who has believed something that is apart from the Truth. There is Truth, ONE/God/Truth, ONE God. There may be misperception of Truth but misperception is not Truth. Never a True separation from an omnipresent God could there be, yet an error of belief or wrong thought could lead you to believe you were separated from God. It just wouldn’t be true. So, Adam chose his belief and Good and the belief of evil proliferated from that point. It was a monumental choice but not a wrong choice. God gave the same offer to man again in the Old Testament .. “God said, I lay before you life and death, you choose”… but I recommend choosing life! Much later in the fourth chapter of Genesis when Cain and Able brought their sacrifices to Lord Adam he had respect for one over the other or favored one more that the other the so the un-favored one ask why? Adam said…if you do well, good things will come to you but if you do not well, sin lieth at the door…! This is the first time the word sin was used in the Bible (KJV), Gen. Chap. 4. From that little word sin which is translated as error, mistake, miss the mark, fall short of the goal etc., all the religious doctrines in the world are built. Every one of them teach sin as something thing a person does that is either against God or makes God angry which separates the person from their union with God. I am not picking on one church, I am picking on all the brick & mortar churches that call themselves a Christian church or the house of the Lord or God’s house. All of them! It is religion! Man made religion. The term Christian, the term church all of it is man made religion. Structured material buildings are not the Church built without hands that God dwells in today, which is his body. Every person reading this is the body of Christ which is the Church. Even if you are a non-believer in God you are still the Temple where God resides. The mind of Christ is your mind, built without hands. You are the body of the anointing power of God. God dwells inside every human being. We are the offspring of God or the children of God. More on this later. Let us look further at this word sin, which really means an error of thought. Let’s see what great religious theologies and doctrines have been created that separate man from God because of sin/error or something he has done that he believed separated him from God. Most doctrines degrade people and beat them down, calling them sinners, giving them a sinners prayer, requiring of them some form of penance usually including but not limited to money. Remember this is not God, this is man made doctrines about God. Begging God for forgiveness for something they have done when in Truth they had the free will to do it! Religious ones constantly warn of sin and point the accusing finger at anyone and everyone, yet like the religious leaders of Jesus’ time, they mostly do the same things and hide the fact. Religious hypocrisy stinks! Even with all their condemnation, they still cannot or will not give you a list of sins. They more or less guess at what deeds are sin and how to be forgiven from them. This is usually the cause of division and eventual separation of denominations. This massive error of sin belief swept through man created religion for thousands of years. All from a belief created in man’s mind having nothing really to do with God. God never moved (where would he go, he is everywhere). Yet man began to fall away from God in his mind by setting up rules that did not exist, then believing he fell short of the rules and thereby fell further away from God. Now man is in a quandary of mental mistakes that he made up himself and believes they are taking him further away from direct communion with God. As a man believeth in his heart, so he is. Religion calls it sin consciousness. If a person thinks about sin, worries about sin, contemplates, meditates and ponders sin then he is in sin. No one can be in sin and be in God also. There is no sin in God. Neither liar’s, nor cheaters, nor unclean, nor imperfect et.al. shall inherit the Kingdom of God. So don’t think that is what you are. Those were some of us before but we’ve been washed by the word of God and now we are clean, spotless, son’s of the living God. That’s the good news! Therefore, the more badly man would feel about his failure to please God, the further he would consider himself apart from God. God still hasn’t moved and he’s still saying just return your mind (repent) back to believing I’m here and nothing can ever separate us and we will be re-united in your mind. In the twinkling of an eye at the last trump(voice, word)of God from Jesus. God/Man has completely forgotten who he really is. His man side will not allow his God side to arise. Now he considers himself one of God’s un-chosen people, lost in sin with no way back. He becomes like a drunken man, staggering around not knowing where he is going. Like a man in a dark room with little or no light unable to see much and certainly not clearly. Can you hear the Spirit of God? Lost, like sheep with no shepherd. Further and further away from man’s understanding of God dwelling inside of man he attempts to create more ways to find God, ways to please God, ways to serve God and on and on until there are thousands of doctrines, rituals, sacrifices, rules, ways to get to God, WHO NEVER LEFT OR WENT ANYWHERE. You left God, through wrong thinking or an error of your mind, not in truth. You believed incorrectly in separation by sin. Sin does not exist in Truth. It is a deceptive lie or a devil! The true definition of sin would actually be thinking or believing that anything you do, say, think, hear or be could separate you from God! Neither he
ight, nor depth, nothing can separate us from God our father the source of all that is. Can fish separate themselves from the water? Can birds hide from the air?
Therefore, man went further and further away from light into darkness, and misunderstanding of the Truth which never changed from the beginning. God/Man had temporarily lost his God/Self. He is now Man trying to find God. Just a man! Who can show him the Truth that God is in him? Who can save the world from this mental misunderstanding? Who can take away the sin/error from the world? Who can show us the True connection to God. Who will enlighten the pathway and guide us back to God? Can anyone save us? Will anyone pay attention if a God/Man comes to us with the Truth? Will we accept it? The True Prophets of God were usually killed by the religious order in charge. They were killed by burning, lions, swords, beheaded you name it. Wake up people, this was the religious order of the old testament killing God’s prophets. Most of the wars we have today can be considered religious wars. Killing for God, that’s a good one. What if God sends a person that knows his God powers over matter, that does miracles that no other man, before or since has done? Will the masses believe? The religious leaders would never kill him, would they? Certainly if one should arise from the dead, they would listen! The church rulers would never condemn him to death the very thing most against their Laws and doctrines. The religious world would certainly accept him openly with loving arms, right? The old church world would gladly cease to exist if a savior from God came and showed the correct way to commune with God. If he truly showed us the way back to God we would all follow, right? I mean, that’s all religion ever wanted in the beginning wasn’t it? Truth, justice, equality, purity for all, no cost just come and get it. Its free, tell everybody, come to the party I’m sure that this is what religion would say to the Truth! Right!God bless all! TKHi TK,
God does not live in sinners.
He does not inspire the thoughts of the heathen .
You must be born again from above to go from the dominion of darkness into the light.Men love to try to avoid repentance and to justify themselves but whoever wishes to save his own life will lose it
Hey Nick: It is true that God does not dwell in sin. If you accept the fact that you have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus, then you are clean and God does dwell within. If you reject this Truth that you are clean, and you consider yourself a sinner, then you are unclean, in darkness and cannot see the light of Truth. You are only a sinner if you reject the Truth that God has made you clean! We are the righteousness of God, BY FAITH, through the words of Christ that wash us clean, not by anything we do or don't do. If you believe you are clean by Jesus words, then you are clean. If you believe you are in sin or are a sinner you have rejected the Truth of God sent by Jesus for your salvation from that sin consciousness!! Great Love to all, TK
there are many different versions out there why keep commoing up with new ones? cant we stick to the sword of the Lord.
Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 08 2009,05:53) there are many different versions out there why keep commoing up with new ones? cant we stick to the sword of the Lord.
Greetings follower…..The answer to that question is easy…we live in a time of increased learning and understanding and there are those who are intent on revising history and unfortunately the Bible has become the subject of such efforts….”Hold to what you know to be true” and pray for the wisdom to discern…The OT seems to be surviving the onslaught better than NT and IMO this would be because God choose the Jews to be the keeper of the law (Torah)and although they differ on the issue of the messiah it is undeniable that torah is same today as yesterday….Modern day christianity couldn't change it so they just dismiss it by saying it was done away with at the cross…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a titl of the OT but to fullfill the prophesy and covenants therein…does it atter what version you use?
yes it does.
why does it?
because different versions change the word of God.
I use king james version onlyQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 23 2009,23:17) Hio TK,
Which men are you declaring to be clean and does God agree with you?
Nick: Im not declaring any one to be clean, it wouldn't matter if I did. I have no power in and of myself. Like Jesus said, my father, he doeth the works. God has declared all men(you) clean and righteous through the words of Jesus. The end! It is for whosoever will believe their righteousness. Righteousness has always been men of faith, chosen to recieve righteousness. Starting with Abraham who was ritghteous by faith. Never ever by works lest a man boast of himself. Just believing that God doesn't lie. All are clean that believe God!! If you believe lies and deception you will go to work for righteousness and get nothing. This is the gospel, good news. There is no evil in good! Bless you,TKQuote (theodorej @ Sep. 10 2009,00:06) Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ Sep. 08 2009,05:53) there are many different versions out there why keep commoing up with new ones? cant we stick to the sword of the Lord.
Greetings follower…..The answer to that question is easy…we live in a time of increased learning and understanding and there are those who are intent on revising history and unfortunately the Bible has become the subject of such efforts….”Hold to what you know to be true” and pray for the wisdom to discern…The OT seems to be surviving the onslaught better than NT and IMO this would be because God choose the Jews to be the keeper of the law (Torah)and although they differ on the issue of the messiah it is undeniable that torah is same today as yesterday….Modern day christianity couldn't change it so they just dismiss it by saying it was done away with at the cross…Jesus said he did not come to change a dot or a titl of the OT but to fullfill the prophesy and covenants therein…
theodorej We are not under the Old Covenant. We now have the New Covenant in
Luke 22:20 …” This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood, which is shed for you.”
Ephesians 12:8 ” For by grace you have been saved, through
faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a free gift of God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
However we still do sin. john tells us if we think that we don't, the truth is in us. Jesus now is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask for the forgiveness of our Sins, no other Sacrifice is needed. Jesus is our perfect Sacrifice. Through Him we are made clean.
But to say that we now never will sin is false.
What we have now is a Mediator, which in the Old Testament they did not have.
Irene
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