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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 20 2007,22:36) I know someone who has been to hell (and back). It's real.
What you mean is that you know of someone who has had some experience that they equated to hell. That does not mean there is a “Christian hell”. I'm sure if you researched hard enough, you'd find that people have had all sorts of death experiences.Quote If I feel led to oppose something unscriptural, I will not deny such leadings. My obedience is still required.
How was I unscriptural? Yeshua often spoke of “hell” in quite graphic terms that would have left his listeners in no doubt that it's a place to be avoided….Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 21 2007,15:48) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 20 2007,22:36) I know someone who has been to hell (and back). It's real.
What you mean is that you know of someone who has had some experience that they equated to hell. That does not mean there is a “Christian hell”. I'm sure if you researched hard enough, you'd find that people have had all sorts of death experiences.
What happans to the unbeliever when they die Kevin?Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 21 2007,15:52) Quote If I feel led to oppose something unscriptural, I will not deny such leadings. My obedience is still required.
How was I unscriptural? Yeshua often spoke of “hell” in quite graphic terms that would have left his listeners in no doubt that it's a place to be avoided….
Matthew 5:22, 5:29-30, 11:23, 16:23, 18:9, 23:15, 23:33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 10:15…..Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 21 2007,15:48) What you mean is that you know of someone who has had some experience that they equated to hell.
Possibly….but their account did appear to line up with what scripture records about hell. And from what I can tell there was a lot of commonality with the accounts of many others.In the Tanach, “hell” is “sheol” which is basically the place of the dead that ALL people go to until the time of judgment. The verses you list deal with “gehenna”, or the valley of Hinnon. It was a trash dump where trash was burned, and because trash was constantly being added, it was an “everlasting fire”.
So, in this essence, that person you know could have experienced “sheol” in some sense, but I wonder if they experienced “gehenna”.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 21 2007,14:48) If the truth claims of tooth-fairiests turn out to have veracity the consequences for non believers with be insignificant. If the claims of christians turn out to be true then the consequences of a bad call for nonbelievers will be severe and everlasting. Stu, if you're wrong about christianity then the consequence for you will resonate throughout eternity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho9iA2pJ9SM
Peace.
Hi Is 1:18You don't know the fairies I know! They stay quiet about the torment in store for a-fairyists!
On the subject of sulfur, Hugo Chavez is far more interesting to listen to than the unimaginative (but I’m sure lucrative) ravings of Bill Weise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v….search=
(go to 1:50 for THE quote of the year!)You are essentially stating Pascal's Wager, one of the most cowardly of all philosophies ever. I guess it would be totally in character for the OT god to mercilessly and indiscriminately punish the humans he created, no matter how ethical and charitable they were to others, if they were not to follow absolutely correctly the convoluted and anti-human doctrines listed in his Book of Club Rules. See the “Why all the Killing?” thread for more example of such barbarism.
Stuart
YHWH doesn't send people to hell, they send themselves by rejecting the provision made for all men. The wicked get in the next life what they demanded in this one, the absence of God in their lives. Of course that entails the absence of all that is good, because God is the source of that. The vacuum, of course, is filled by all that is not good….so yes hell will be unimaginably aweful. I praise God that I am forgiven my multitude of sins and will not be going there. Instead I have an inheritance waiting for me that is incomprehensible. Stu, choose salvation.
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 21 2007,16:10) In the Tanach, “hell” is “sheol” which is basically the place of the dead that ALL people go to until the time of judgment.
Really?….Where, in the Bible, do I read about saved christians waiting in shoel for their judgement?Quote The verses you list deal with “gehenna”, or the valley of Hinnon.
Not true. Matthew 11:23, Luke 10:15 and Luke 16:23-24 mention hades.Quote It was a trash dump where trash was burned, and because trash was constantly being added, it was an “everlasting fire”.
If this were true why would Yeshua warn people about spending their afterlife there (Matthew 5:29-30, 10:28, 23:33; Luke 12:5). Clearly gehenna has an application outside of the town dump…..Quote So, in this essence, that person you know could have experienced “sheol” in some sense, but I wonder if they experienced “gehenna”.
I haven't looked into this much but I think they are just two words for the same place. One that is to be avoided….Blessings
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 21 2007,18:44) YHWH doesn't send people to hell, they send themselves by rejecting the provision made for all men. The wicked get in the next life what they demanded in this one, the absence of God in their lives. Of course that entails the absence of all that is good, because God is the source of that. The vacuum, of course, is filled by all that is not good….so yes hell will be unimaginably aweful. I praise God that I am forgiven my multitude of sins and will not be going there. Instead I have an inheritance waiting for me that is incomprehensible. Stu, choose salvation.
There is no afterlife. That is a myth used by the politically hungry (Pope, Caliph, Imam, Archbishop…) to keep the faithful in line. To think otherwise is to demonstrate an utterly self-centred view of the universe in which special arrangements are made for just the minority of our species who subscribe to and follow the customs of the “right” kind of christianity while all others are simply consigned to some kind of giant sulfurous “naughty step” for all eternity. If it were only one person claiming thus he would be psychoanalysed for delusions of grandeur. Because it is 1/3 of the planet's population deluded in this way (with another 1/3 believing an alternate and incompatible version), somehow it is considered normal. In all other ways the universe is indifferent to, or even aggressive towards our existence. Is it grievance against perceived injustice with hope of divine retribution on those who can't be bothered following the Rule Book that motivates propagation of such dogma?Stuart
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 20 2007,22:54) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 21 2007,15:48) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 20 2007,22:36) I know someone who has been to hell (and back). It's real.
What you mean is that you know of someone who has had some experience that they equated to hell. That does not mean there is a “Christian hell”. I'm sure if you researched hard enough, you'd find that people have had all sorts of death experiences.
What happans to the unbeliever when they die Kevin?
They die
.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 21 2007,01:54) Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 21 2007,16:10) In the Tanach, “hell” is “sheol” which is basically the place of the dead that ALL people go to until the time of judgment.
Really?….Where, in the Bible, do I read about saved christians waiting in shoel for their judgement?
“Sheol” and “hades” are the same thing. They mean the grave. Dead. In the ground. Worm food. Our bodies go back to where they started: the dirt.Unless you're willing to use the Greek mythology “hades”?
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.Why would the dead in Christ rise if they were already in heaven? Its does not say they were reunite with a resurrected body, it simply says they will rise.
Quote Quote The verses you list deal with “gehenna”, or the valley of Hinnon.
Not true. Matthew 11:23, Luke 10:15 and Luke 16:23-24 mention hades.
OK, just when over the list briefly.Quote Quote It was a trash dump where trash was burned, and because trash was constantly being added, it was an “everlasting fire”.
If this were true why would Yeshua warn people about spending their afterlife there (Matthew 5:29-30, 10:28, 23:33; Luke 12:5). Clearly gehenna has an application outside of the town dump…..
It was used because the people knew about a literal place called Gehenna, where trash and dead people were thrown to burn. It was just another way to symbolize the lake of fire.Quote Quote So, in this essence, that person you know could have experienced “sheol” in some sense, but I wonder if they experienced “gehenna”.
I haven't looked into this much but I think they are just two words for the same place. One that is to be avoided….Blessings
You can't avoid the grave. All people die. And as far as the “lake of fire”, the NT basically teaches that people who are not found in the book of life will be thrown into it. Poof! Gone forever, no eternal torment.Eze 18:21 – “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
perfect..selah!Death and hades have already past away, the walking dead sleep on, without wakening,
we are well past, an un aknowlegded generation, not understanding the present times, and now drawing close to the end of Judgment!
Men have denied and forsaken their own judgement to rise, to the new life, after the first Man Jesus christ, from the grave, womb of the woman to new life, just how the bible prophecy writes and tells this age will do, so have they done!
and seen the second death, the lake of fire, the final judgement, and destrution, one by onecharity
charity Sin is not imputed to those that believe in Christ Jesus. By Faith we are saved. Judgement is on the House of God only right now, the rest will be judged in the Millenium.
Peace and Love Irene
P.S. when are you going to change your aviator, let your LIGHT SHINE. Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 26 2008,01:34) Then stay away from the NIV .
keyonn I agree that Bible is so full of errors. Get a good Old King James Version. I have the New King James and my Husband uses the old for studying. We also have the NIV but do not use it.Peace and Love Mrs.
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