What are morals to the atheist?

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 05 2012,23:46)

And God put down the rules,to look after them and to treat them right.There should not be any slaves in Gods eyes,but since men has created them,God simply put down the rules, to look after them.

My mistake.  I read Romans 7:12 – (“…the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. – and got the impression that the law was supposed to be “holy”, just, and good.  I had no idea that it was just a set of rules based on man's system and was therefore unholy, unjust, and evil.

Thanks for clarifying!

(You might want to remove the book of Romans from your bible though as it doesn't jive with your view of the law.)

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,00:11)

“One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.” (Exodus 12:49) Ex.12:49 means that someone can buy their freedom as well.

Is that your way of admitting that the Romans passage is in fact irrelevant here?

[WhatIsTrue]

Quote (annie @ June 06 2012,02:07)

Therefore, yes, all slavery is obviously wrong in GOD's eyes, the slavery that went on in the US before the civil war as well as the slavery that goes on still today.

Except for the slavery that benefited the Hebrews.  Is that correct?

[Ed J]

Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 06 2012,09:28)

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,00:11) “One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.” (Exodus 12:49) Ex.12:49 means that someone can buy their freedom as well. Is that your way of admitting that the Romans passage is in fact irrelevant here?

Hi WIT,

Quite the contrary, I do point out to you that freedom was
accessible even during the time you seem to think it wasn't.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[WhatIsTrue]

Ed J,

I completely misread Exodus 12:49.  Now that I reread it, it is clearly a flat-out contradiction of Leviticus 25:39-46.  In the Leviticus passage, the law explicitly establishes different rules for those who “homeborn” versus those who are “strangers”.

Leviticus 25:39:
“And if one of your brethren who dwells by you becomes poor, and sells himself to you, you shall not compel him to serve as a slave.“

versus

Leviticus 25:45-46:
“ Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers … they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor.“

Thanks for pointing out yet another bible contradiction.  It's more evidence that it was written by simple men and not divinely inspired at all.

[Stu]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,04:46)

And God put down the rules,to look after them and to treat them right.There should not be any slaves in Gods eyes,but since men has created them,God simply put down the rules, to look after them.

So this god didn't think to write that slave ownership was wrong.

After all it is not as if god is silent on other “abominations”, is it. Leviticus doesn't stop at recommending homosexuals use barrier contraceptives. It recommends stoning them.

So why does it not recommend stoning those who attempt to keep slaves?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,02:12)

Since God says that divorce is not his way,therefore divorce is wrong in Gods eyes.

Scripture, please.

Quote

But we could not care less about God,we have been doing it our way,and therefore came all the slaves,killings,divorce and contraception.

“God's way” is plagues of locusts, the setting on of bears and snakes, burning alive, famines, beating children to death and mass drownings.

Stuart

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ June 06 2012,16:11)

Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,02:12) Since God says that divorce is not his way,therefore divorce is wrong in Gods eyes. Scripture, please. Quote But we could not care less about God,we have been doing it our way,and therefore came all the slaves,killings,divorce and contraception. “God's way” is plagues of locusts, the setting on of bears and snakes, burning alive, famines, beating children to death and mass drownings. Stuart

Stuart,

You conveniently omit their associated crimes.
Your 'spin' is certainly hilarious to say the least.
Man's ways are: the electric chair, gas chamber…

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Wakeup]

Quote (Stu @ June 06 2012,16:11)

Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,02:12) Since God says that divorce is not his way,therefore divorce is wrong in Gods eyes. Scripture, please. Quote But we could not care less about God,we have been doing it our way,and therefore came all the slaves,killings,divorce and contraception. “God's way” is plagues of locusts, the setting on of bears and snakes, burning alive, famines, beating children to death and mass drownings. Stuart

Stu.

You obviuosly have not read the sermon of the mount,for that is the true teachings of God.
This world from the beginning was in the hands of mankind,and they have build the towers and the cities,and the rules. They have created the system of slavery,not God.

When God revealed himself through Moses to a chosen people by God,to start a new system,a system with God in their lives.
And then these people was meant to spread to all people.

But they were a stubborn people refusing to follow the rules.
God did not invent slavery,God did not teach to kill,all these things were there in the world.(mens work).
Gods laws is to put mens work on earth right again,as how it should be.

You are just playing judge here; asking questions and then rejecting what ever is not to your taste.
You never explain your believes,for you have none,you are just an empty shell and 75% water.How else can you explain your self.

wakeup.

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,20:59)

Quote (Stu @ June 06 2012,16:11) Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,02:12) Since God says that divorce is not his way,therefore divorce is wrong in Gods eyes. Scripture, please. Quote But we could not care less about God,we have been doing it our way,and therefore came all the slaves,killings,divorce and contraception. “God's way” is plagues of locusts, the setting on of bears and snakes, burning alive, famines, beating children to death and mass drownings. Stuart Stu. You obviuosly have not read the sermon of the mount,for that is the true teachings of God. This world from the beginning was in the hands of mankind,and they have build the towers and the cities,and the rules. They have created the system of slavery,not God. When God revealed himself through Moses to a chosen people by God,to start a new system,a system with God in their lives. And then these people was meant to spread to all people. But they were a stubborn people refusing to follow the rules. God did not invent slavery,God did not teach to kill,all these things were there in the world.(mens work). Gods laws is to put mens work on earth right again,as how it should be. You are just playing judge here; asking questions and then rejecting what ever is not to your taste. You never explain your believes,for you have none,you are just an empty shell and 75% water.How else can you explain your self. wakeup.

Wakeup,

Quote

You obviuosly have not read the sermon of the mount,for that is the true teachings of God.

So the teachings of Moses were not the true teachings of God?

Quote

God did not invent slavery,God did not teach to kill,all these things were there in the world.

You have not read the bible have you? The bible God taught that killing was good in the first few chapters of the bible when he accepted the bloody corpse of Able's lamb but not the produce from Cain. All through the bible he either instructs his people to slaughter non Hebrews, even little boys and their mothers, or He merely murders them himself.
How can you say that God did not teach to kill?

Rather than instruct his people that slavery was bad, he instructed them to take slaves, especially little virgin girls, as spoils of their carnage, as well as how to buy and sell them.

You are like most Christians. You pick the parts of the bible that you like and totally disregard the parts that you do not agree with. You even like to say that it was all the fault of man when God freely admits that it was of his doing.

Tim

[Stu]

Quote (Ed J @ June 06 2012,20:43)

Quote (Stu @ June 06 2012,16:11) Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,02:12) Since God says that divorce is not his way,therefore divorce is wrong in Gods eyes. Scripture, please. Quote But we could not care less about God,we have been doing it our way,and therefore came all the slaves,killings,divorce and contraception. “God's way” is plagues of locusts, the setting on of bears and snakes, burning alive, famines, beating children to death and mass drownings. Stuart Stuart, You conveniently omit their associated crimes. Your 'spin' is certainly hilarious to say the least. Man's ways are: the electric chair, gas chamber… God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Here's a little quiz for you then. Here are the names, and the punishment, you tell me what their crimes were (clues underneath):

1. Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, burned to death by the LORD.

2. The people of Israel, snakebites, fatal for some, inflicted by snakes sent by the LORD.

3. (An easy one) 42 children, killed by bears that arrived after the children were cursed in the name of the LORD.

4. David and Uriah's wife's child, struck dead by the LORD (it took up to seven days for the child to die).

Clues:
1. Lev 10:1-2
2. Num 21:4-6
3. No clue, too easy already
4.. 2 Sam 12:11

Tell me what their crimes were Ed, they must have been pretty disgusting acts to warrant summary execution.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,20:59)

Quote (Stu @ June 06 2012,16:11) Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,02:12) Since God says that divorce is not his way,therefore divorce is wrong in Gods eyes. Scripture, please. Quote But we could not care less about God,we have been doing it our way,and therefore came all the slaves,killings,divorce and contraception. “God's way” is plagues of locusts, the setting on of bears and snakes, burning alive, famines, beating children to death and mass drownings. Stuart Stu. You obviuosly have not read the sermon of the mount,for that is the true teachings of God.

I have read the sermon on the mount. Would you say that the lord's prayer contained within it is a true teaching of god when god recommends that we ask god not to tempt us? And do you think god has tempted us, or not? And how do you think Abraham would have felt knowing that Genesis 22:1 describes the nasty Isaac saga as a temptation of god?

This is not a god worthy of worship. The good news of Jesus is that we cannot know what he really said. The sermon on the mount was invented posthumously by late First Century scriptwriters and producers.

Quote

This world from the beginning was in the hands of mankind,and they have build the towers and the cities,and the rules. They have created the system of slavery,not God.

So there are some things that god didn't create after all. I wish you would make your mind up.

Quote

When God revealed himself through Moses to a chosen people by God,to start a new system,a system with God in their lives. And then these people was meant to spread to all people.

But like so many of the plans of this “omnipotent” god, things have done wrong AGAIN.

Quote

God did not invent slavery,God did not teach to kill,all these things were there in the world.(mens work).

So there are some senses in which we are made in god's image, and other senses in which we are not. I guess with all the sadistic violence dealt out by the Jewish god we could argue that we haven't had a very good role model.

Quote

You are just playing judge here; asking questions and then rejecting what ever is not to your taste.

Just like some people here in their attitude to the facts of our origins. However it is not a fact that your god exists, it is an assertion on your part.

Quote

You never explain your believes,for you have none,you are just an empty shell and 75% water.

I believe in things that can be shown to be true. I don't think you do. I'm not sure how you can develop a spirituality that is genuine when it is so based on lies about history and speculation about the supernatural, defined as that which cannot be observed.

Do you have a scripture to support your view that divorce is not god's way? Or does your belief system include you asserting what god believes based on the voices you hear in your head?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (TimothyVI @ June 06 2012,22:18)

You even like to say that it was all the fault of man when God freely admits that it was of his doing. Tim

Yes indeed. Although Gene Roddenberry has it right, I might have to add to my sig. line that we should also be wary of humans who blame other humans for the mistakes of their god.

But then Ed's sig. line is chilling enough on its own.

Stuart

[Wakeup]

Quote (Stu @ June 06 2012,23:38)

Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,20:59) Quote (Stu @ June 06 2012,16:11) Quote (Wakeup @ June 06 2012,02:12) Since God says that divorce is not his way,therefore divorce is wrong in Gods eyes. Scripture, please. Quote But we could not care less about God,we have been doing it our way,and therefore came all the slaves,killings,divorce and contraception. “God's way” is plagues of locusts, the setting on of bears and snakes, burning alive, famines, beating children to death and mass drownings. Stuart Stu. You obviuosly have not read the sermon of the mount,for that is the true teachings of God. I have read the sermon on the mount.  Would you say that the lord's prayer contained within it is a true teaching of god when god recommends that we ask god not to tempt us?  And do you think god has tempted us, or not?  And how do you think Abraham would have felt knowing that Genesis 22:1 describes the nasty Isaac saga as a temptation of god?   This is not a god worthy of worship.  The good news of Jesus is that we cannot know what he really said.  The sermon on the mount was invented posthumously by late First Century scriptwriters and producers. Quote This world from the beginning was in the hands of mankind,and they have build the towers and the cities,and the rules. They have created the system of slavery,not God. So there are some things that god didn't create after all.  I wish you would make your mind up. Quote When God revealed himself through Moses to a chosen people by God,to start a new system,a system with God in their lives.  And then these people was meant to spread to all people. But like so many of the plans of this “omnipotent” god, things have done wrong AGAIN. Quote God did not invent slavery,God did not teach to kill,all these things were there in the world.(mens work). So there are some senses in which we are made in god's image, and other senses in which we are not.  I guess with all the sadistic violence dealt out by the Jewish god we could argue that we haven't had a very good role model. Quote You are just playing judge here; asking questions and then rejecting what ever is not to your taste. Just like some people here in their attitude to the facts of our origins.  However it is not a fact that your god exists, it is an assertion on your part. Quote You never explain your believes,for you have none,you are just an empty shell and 75% water. I believe in things that can be shown to be true.  I don't think you do.  I'm not sure how you can develop a spirituality that is genuine when it is so based on lies about history and speculation about the supernatural, defined as that which cannot be observed. Do you have a scripture to support your view that divorce is not god's way?  Or does your belief system include you asserting what god believes based on the voices you hear in your head? Stuart

Stu.

Mat.19:8.

Here is proof that the God we worship is telling the truth,he does not hide anything from us.

Isiah 45:7.i form the light,and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

exodus4:11.And the Lord said unto him,who hath made mans mouth? or who made the dumb,or deaf,or seeing,or the blind? have not I the Lord.

If he can not create evil then he is not a God that can do anything. all preachers are not honest,they try to hide this verses,because they can not explain,bacause they dont know,just like you.
You can not understand scripture,so just reject the whole Book.

wakeup.

[Devolution]

Stu,

Wakeup is spot on.

Isaiah 54:16
Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work, and I have created the waster to destroy.

God has created evil for a reason.
The onus is on the seeker to find out why…
Here's a challenge to you…lets see if you are able to work out why God has done this…or, better said, in your mind, why would a loving, make believe God, who hates evil, create evil within that make believe story?

Cheers.

[Stu]

But, on the other hand:

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Psalm 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

(Should we conclude that god thinks his creation of evil is good?)

1 John 4:8 God is love.

…and, substituting one term for the other, the creation of evil was an act of love.

What a moronic belief system.

Stuart

[annie]

Quote (TimothyVI @ June 06 2012,09:00)

Quote (annie @ June 06 2012,07:07) Therefore, yes, all slavery is obviously wrong in GOD's eyes, the slavery that went on in the US before the civil war as well as the slavery that goes on still today.  Hi Anne, “Dt.20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself. “ God has classed the women and little ones right along with the cattle and other posessions, to be taken as spoil. Isn't that obviously wrong in God's  eye? Tim

Hi Tim,

Please don't take out of context.

“but the women and the little ones, the cattle, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourselves; and you shall enjoy the spoil of your  enemies, which the LORD your God has given you.”  Deuteronomy 20:14

Lesson taught: Now you know how God regards his enemies!  As enemies of God, the men were considered not worthy of life at all and were killed and the women and children were considered spoil.  He saw them as enemies and nothing else.  You are missing the truth completely if you don't see its all about how he sees his enemies as opposed to those he considers his own.  

God the Father holds women and children in high regard. To know the Father, you need to know the Son.  

“All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”  Matthew 11:27

Shalom

[Stu]

Quote (Devolution @ June 07 2012,13:38)

Here's a challenge to you…lets see if you are able to work out why God has done this…or, better said, in your mind, why would a loving, make believe God, who hates evil, create evil within that make believe story?

Um… because it is a sadistic tyrant with no respect for humanity and a bizarre dislike of figs?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (annie @ June 07 2012,17:50)

God the Father holds women and children in high regard.

Genesis 3:16
Genesis 7:23
Genesis 19:26
Exodus 12:29-30
Numbers 16:30
Numbers 31:1-35
Leviticus 26:22
Deuteronomy 3:3-6
2 Samuel 12:11-14
2 Samuel 12:14-18
1 Kings 14:17
2 Kings 2:23-24
Zechariah 14:1-2
Isaiah 13:15-18
Proverbs 13:24
Proverbs 22:15
Proverbs 23:13-14

John 20:17
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
1 Timothy 2:11-12

…just a selection.

Stuart

[annie]

Quote (TimothyVI @ June 06 2012,09:08)

Quote (annie @ June 06 2012,07:07)  And as Wakeup said, if everyone would obey GOD, there would be none of the things that go on today. There also would be a lot fewer little old Walmart greeters because we would have to stone them all to death for working on Sunday. It is God's law and Jesus said in Mat. 5:18, “because I tell you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished.” Do you not believe God or Jesus Annie? Tim

Hi Tim,

Its pretty obvious that you don't know as much as you think you know.  

According to God's TORAH/law, Sunday, the first day of the week, is not God's Sabbath, and never has been.  God considers Sunday just a regular work day.  The 7th day of the week is God's Sabbath and has been since creation.  It is the only day GOD blessed and set apart from the other six days.  That hasn't changed.

“So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all his work which he had done in creation.”  Genesis 2:3

The RCC is the one that officially changed it to Sunday, NOT GOD.  There is no teaching in scripture of the 7th day Sabbath being changed by Yeshua/Jesus to the first day, Sunday.  So GOD could care less if you work on Sunday.

When he came, the Messiah, by his sacrifice on the cross for our sins, took away the curse of death for not following the law. Therefore, what is required by GOD now, instead of stoning, is turning to Yeshua/Jesus in true repentance and following him.  If we do that we are forgiven and given eternal life.

“I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his sake.”  IJohn 2:12

Shalom

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