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In the RW thread, doctorx said
Quote Hi kejonn, I been reading your posts trying to discredit what Ron has to say in his books, but so far have seen nothing but petty personal attacks. Now you say you could not take Ron's book seriously because there was no OT passages saying that Christ would come, die, and rise again, but that is incorrect. For one, the Apostle Peter pointed out… Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.Here Peter is quoting prophecies from the Old Testament.
PSALMS 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
I also noticed somebody else point out…
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
I also used to look at this scripture and wonder how people could set a date, but as it was pointed out to me, at the time Jesus was asked the question, he nor the angels did know when his second coming would be. But since it is Jesus who opens the seals, at some point he is going to know. Also he knows how long the tribulation lasts, and he knows he returns at the end of it, so he most definately knows. Also we have to keep other scriptures in mind…
1THESSALONIANS 5
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.AMOS 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
God bless you all.
Look REALLY hard. There is nothing in your OT quotes about the death and resurrection of the promised Jewish Messiah. You are forcing the text.While we're at it, lets advertise other books by other doomsday prophets. Why not download and read Prophecy Fulfilled: God's Hand in World Affairs. After all, it is written by another disciple of Armstrong. These guys seems to have a fetish for firing people up to see the world end very soon.
For others who may be influenced by the recent PKG folks, take a moment to check this site out first: http://weinlandwatch.wordpress.com/2008….g-glass
One last note here for the time: when May 2008 rolls around and the predictions do not come true, it may be time to realize something other than “Satan” misleading people. Rather, has anyone ever thought that all of this is taking place because the real God wants you to sit up, take notice, and stop letting rigid observances ruin your lives and make you anti-social misfits who think they have the corner on spirituality? There are many people in your community who don't believe as you who could be great friends, but in your fanaticism, you are alienating yourselves from those around you. You are also starting to make Christianity out to be everything Hollywood wants to make it look like. Thanks, but they really don't need the help.
Here's an interesting read: Field Guide: End Times Prophecy Movement
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 24 2008,23:35) For others who may be influenced by the recent PKG folks, take a moment to check this site out first: http://weinlandwatch.wordpress.com/2008….g-glass
“Closed High-Demand group”?!30% tithing?!
Wow. What fantastic euphamisms for mind-control and extortion.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 25 2008,18:20) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 24 2008,23:35) For others who may be influenced by the recent PKG folks, take a moment to check this site out first: http://weinlandwatch.wordpress.com/2008….g-glass
“Closed High-Demand group”?!30% tithing?!
Wow. What fantastic euphamisms for mind-control and extortion.
Stuart
Yes, that it is. When one goes through that it seems right. Some that did with Mr. Armstrong did not know any better either. Some, like my Husband and I too never before had read the Bible, since we came out of the Catholic Church.
It is so sad that Now Mr. Weinland is doing the exact same thing. Traveling all over the world. With their tythings. Seems rather like extortion, you are right at that. Time will tell.Peace and Love Mrs.
Since i cannot post in the other RW thread, I'd be curious if the PKG folks adhere to all 613 Mitzvot of the Torah. If not, they are not saved? For instance, do you all adhere to the specifics of these commandments?
- Deu 22:13 “If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her,
Deu 22:14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, 'I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,'
Deu 22:15 then the girl's father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate.
Deu 22:16 “The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her;
Deu 22:17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, “I did not find your daughter a virgin.” But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.
Deu 22:18 “So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him,
Deu 22:19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.
Deu 22:20 “But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin,
Deu 22:21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.
Deu 22:22 “If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.
Deu 22:23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her,
Deu 22:24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor's wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die.
Deu 22:26 “But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case.
Deu 22:27 “When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.
Deu 22:28 “If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered,
Deu 22:29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.Irony upon irony. Its odd to see the “believers” arguing who is the true believer. Makes you wonder why the bible was so ambiguous if it was really the true “word of God”. I guess God is ambiguous?
In the “Believers” RW thread, Broncs said
Quote There seems to be an awful lot of discussion here about who or what group are really “God's Chosen People”, and I have to say after belonging to a “traditional” Christian church for 30 years and believing in a “loving” God who says “come as you are” and “saves you” if you believe in him, that I have begun to be of a different opinion after reading Ron's books. Virtually none of these so-called “Christians” obeys what God has commanded man to obey, and that is His Commandments. Like A of P said, they have not been abolished. And frankly if I were God and gave certain commandments to my creation and they didn't obey them and instead changed them to suit what they felt more comfortable doing, I'd be pissed. I wouldn't be in the “oh, come as you are and I'll save you” mood. That's why God is coming back. He's done waiting for man to start doing what he is supposed to do cause it obviously ain't gonna happen. And I am starting to believe much more that God CALLS you, AFTER you start keeping his commandments, first and foremost being the 7th day Sabbath. For if you don't keep that day to be open for the Lord, then the rest of your efforts are all in vain. I don't think he wants everybody, and I feel sorry for those who hang their hopes on “being saved” and “seeing God” if they don't even bother to keep His Commandments. Such arrogance. Don't think that God owes you anything, cause if you don't do what he commands, then He doesn't. See above. Go through the 613 mitzvot of the Torah. Do you adhere to them? If you had an earthly father who made the same set of rules, how would you feel about him? Would it seem anything remotely like love to you?
If you think the Creator of the universe cares if you eat bacon or force raped girls to marry their rapists, then you deserve your cult.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 26 2008,08:09) Since i cannot post in the other RW thread, I'd be curious if the PKG folks adhere to all 613 Mitzvot of the Torah. If not, they are not saved? For instance, do you all adhere to the specifics of these commandments? - Deu 22:13 “If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her,
Deu 22:14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, 'I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,'
Deu 22:15 then the girl's father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate.
Deu 22:16 “The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her;
Deu 22:17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, “I did not find your daughter a virgin.” But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.
Deu 22:18 “So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him,
Deu 22:19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days.
Deu 22:20 “But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin,
Deu 22:21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.
Deu 22:22 “If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.
Deu 22:23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her,
Deu 22:24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor's wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.
Deu 22:25 “But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die.
Deu 22:26 “But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case.
Deu 22:27 “When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.
Deu 22:28 “If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered,
Deu 22:29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.
kejonn Since I used to belong to the W.W.Church of God, I do know that they do not keep any of the commandments of Deut.
They do keep all the Feasts tho.of Lev.
They pick and choose.Peace and Love Mrs.
Can you believe how many hits their thread has received since it's start only days ago? MY GOODNESS! This Ron guy is popular!
Quote (Mandy @ Feb. 26 2008,16:23) Can you believe how many hits their thread has received since it's start only days ago? MY GOODNESS! This Ron guy is popular!
Mandy yes, quit a few. So did we in Mr. Armstrongs era. `144000 all over the world. Don't know how many Mr. Weinland has, tho.
Whatever will be will be.
Peace and Love IreneHi! Thanks for linking to my blog. With Weinland's predictions of the seventh seal being opened sometime between April 17th and 20th (CoG-PKG will keep Passover on the 19th this year) along with Weinland's hint that they will be sending an instant message out to members over the website when the time is ready, a lot of us are concerned about what may happen, when Weinland's seventh seal comes to nothing.
There is precedent in the WCG for false prophecies being whitewashed and the membership was turned around completely from what they had believed, as little as a year previous, as my post The 1975 That Never Was, about Armstrong's “1975 in Prophecy”.
CoG-watchers are hopeful the same type of thing will happen to Weinland's followers, but there are some disturbing elements to the CoG-PKG's belief system, such as their strong and publicly-stated adherence to British-Israelism that has a few of us worried.
Thanks again!
Quote (WeinlandWatch @ Feb. 27 2008,00:17) Hi! Thanks for linking to my blog. With Weinland's predictions of the seventh seal being opened sometime between April 17th and 20th (CoG-PKG will keep Passover on the 19th this year) along with Weinland's hint that they will be sending an instant message out to members over the website when the time is ready, a lot of us are concerned about what may happen, when Weinland's seventh seal comes to nothing. There is precedent in the WCG for false prophecies being whitewashed and the membership was turned around completely from what they had believed, as little as a year previous, as my post The 1975 That Never Was, about Armstrong's “1975 in Prophecy”.
CoG-watchers are hopeful the same type of thing will happen to Weinland's followers, but there are some disturbing elements to the CoG-PKG's belief system, such as their strong and publicly-stated adherence to British-Israelism that has a few of us worried.
Thanks again!
t8 already said that we will be here for them to pick up the pieces, when the time comes. The problem is tho, they are so taken in by Him it will make no difference what will happen, just like what happend with Mr. Armstrong. Not until He died did things fall apart. It shows you that a House divided will not stand. So many of the old are all over the place with their own Churches. It is indeed the end times, tho. Many Antichrist will come and are now here. Then the end will come.
Will we have a Nuke going off, who knows only God does. I truly believe that it will happen in Jerusalem. The last punishment for the Jewish Peole.
So God be with you all.
Peace and Love Mrs.Odd that t8 brings Yisrayl Hawkins up. Guess who Mr. Hawkings had ties to? You guessed it, the originator of many of the doomsday prophets, the Worldwide Church of God! From http://www.livingcog.com/237offshoots.htm
- This list includes addresses of 237 churches, fellowships, study groups, publications and service-providing organizations that trace a history back to the Worldwide Church of God. Addresses for a few other Church of God groups, such as the Church of God (Seventh Day), are also listed. These entities, however, represent only a small fraction of the actual number of Church of God people in existence.
…………………….
House of Yahweh: P.O. Box 2442; Abilene, Texas 79604; Yisrayl Hawkins; <a href="http://yahweh.com.” target=”_blank”>http://yahweh.com.
Even more interesting is this from Yahweh leader Hawkins may face other charges- Hawkins, 73, was arrested Tuesday evening and is charged with four counts of bigamy, a second-degree felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison and possibly a fine per charge. His bail is set at $10 million, an amount that Hawkins' lawyers contested by filing on Wednesday a writ of habeas corpus, which requests a person be brought before the court and that authorities justify his detention.
But since they dropped those charges, here's some more from Texas sect leader charged with promoting bigamy released
- Baird, Texas – A religious sect leader charged with promoting bigamy was released from jail Wednesday after a judge reduced his bond from $10 million to $100,000.
House of Yahweh founder Yisrayl Bill Hawkins is not charged with having more than one wife but with promoting multiple spouses for some men in his West Texas group. If convicted of the second-degree felony, Hawkins faces from two to 20 years in prison.
Many more stories found at http://www.rickross.com/groups/yahweh.html
If Mr. Weinland is the “primary spokesman” for both witnesses, why do we need the second witness? Revelation says
- Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
I ave seen some hints that Ron dropped clues about the 2nd witness being his wife. How very convenient.
Broncs453 said
Quote Water – There is something that you fail to pick up on, and it is very important. You are automatically assuming that “terrorism” means coming from a foreign country. Terrorism can come from within one's own country, just like 9/11. I have listened to Ron very carefully, to see if he ever states that 9/11 was caused by “Al-Qaeda” or the like, and he does not. If he did, that would expose him (at least to me) as a false prophet. The reason being because 9/11 was 100%, beyond any shadow of a doubt, an inside job. All you people that think I'm some conspiracy nut, pull your head out of your a$$. The collapse of the twin towers at free-fall speed defies fundamental laws of physics unless the buildings were dynamited. End of story. Ron says that terrorism is behind the nukes, but it will be from within OUR OWN COUNTRY. Remember that when it happens.
OK, its too late for Broncs453, he is thoroughly brainwashed but the rest of you might have a chance. See you local psychologist for advice on cults.Weinland apparently said in the live sermon broadcasted to church members this past Saturday that the seventh seal will be opened on April 17th. Weinland held a church-wide fast on Feb. 2, when the 1335 days were declared to have started.
Will Weinland call for a church-wide fast from sunset the 17th to sunset the 18th? (“Fast” in WCG terms means absolutely nothing by mouth. Not even water, for a full 24 hours.) The church will be (according to the CoG-PKG holy days calendar) keeping Passover after sunset on the 18th.
I wouldn't drink the Passover wine, if I were a CoG-PKG member on the 18th…but I watched Purple Haze last night, so that may be colouring my perceptions unduly.
For those of you who are in PKG (or considering it) you might want to check out the comparisons between David Koresh and Yisrayl Hawkins to see if RW & PKG have any of these commonalities…
A Comparison Between David Koresh And Yisrayl Hawkins
Here are some excerpts that remind me of some things I've read from somoe of the PKG folks here- “The One Body of Messiah IS The House of Yahweh! Assuredly, that is not `me' telling you this.. The Holy Scriptures SAY this.
“We are partakers with Yahshua–IF we are part of the Body of Messiah of the House of Yahweh, ONLY. If we do not come to The House of Yahweh, the One Body of Messiah, we are not partakers' of Yahweh's Promises.” (What Yahweh's Feasts Mean to You. P.87).“*BAPTISM – The THIRD STEP one must then take is to be Baptized by the CHOSEN MINISTERS of YAHWEH, so you may receive The Holy Spirit:…
“Please notice that you can NOT obtain The Holy Spirit of YAHWEH from the preachers of this world!” (Why Aren't Your Prayers Answered Today? p. 20
“The House of Yahweh is the ONLY True Work of Yahweh in this whole world. The House of Yahweh is the ONLY place where Yahweh's Complete Truth is taught, including Yahweh's Truth about The Place He has CHOSEN to Establish HIS NAME in These Last Days!”(ibid. p. 77).
“…IF we `separate' from the One Body of Messiah: The House of Yahweh, then we succumb to Satan's deceit. IF we succumb to Satan, then at that very moment we become worshipers of Satan:…When one does NOT COME TO The Body of Messiah: The House of Yahweh, or if one LEAVES The Body-The ONLY Prophesied, Established Work that Yahweh Himself HAS CHOSEN, then that one does NOT partake, or is NO LONGER a partaker, with the rest of The body of Messiah – The House of Yahweh” (What Yahweh's Feasts Mean to You. p. 87).
“The `BEAST in Revelations 13:3 consists of Church and State – Religion AND Politics. This `BEAST' is a Geo-Political-Religious SYSTEM, which is under the control of the `BEAST' in Revelation 11:7 – none other than Satan the Devil, who gives power to the BEAST (Church and State).” (The Prophetic Word. 6/7-91, p. 44).
“The Mark of the Beast is THE BREAKING of Yahweh's Laws: it is GODWORSHIP. It is as simple as this.”(ibid., p. 70).
“From memory, I think it was about 1951 that I had my FIRST DREAM that my brother Yaaqob and I were The Two witnesses, spoken of in Revelation Chapter 11…It was AFTER YAAQOB RETURNED FROM ISRAYL THAT I HAD THIS SAME DREAM FOR THE third time..” (THE PROPHETIC WORD, 6/7-91. P. 76).
“However, in Revelation 11:5 Yahweh reveals that there is only ONE who is to be The SPOKESMAN of The Two Witnesses!” (ibid. p. 10).
“In the MIDDLE of this Seven Years – in the Midst of This Week, or 3 1/2 Years AFTER This Week BEGINS, EACH of these events will take place simultaneously: Satan Is Cast TO THE EARTH(;)The Last Witness is KILLED By Satan(;) The SEED of The Two Witnesses-The Sealed Remnant ARE DELIVERED TO Mount Zion in Yerusalem
“When Satan is Cast Out of heaven, his FIRST ACT is to `persecute The Woman which Brings Forth The Man'! Through this PERSECUTION – Satan stops the Prophesying of THE ONE WITNESS whom is STILL ALIVE at this time – BY KILLING HIM! It will be at THIS TIME that `his testimony' will be perfectly accomplished (Revelation 11:7) However, in spite of this same persecution `This Woman' is taken to The Place of Safety!”(The Prophetic Word, 6/7-91. p. 48).
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