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I have laid out a sequence of verses trying to demonstrate this thesis: That Jesus is the firstborn son of God, an angelic being, one of many sons. The firstborn Son was given Israel as his portion then when the other sons of God failed to rule justly like him he inherited all the nations. Michael and his angels cast them down (revelation 12). We who have the spirit of God are adopted into the family of God as sons. We are to take the place of the fallen sons of God and rule the nations with Christ that they lost and were cast down from. We are to become one of the Elohim. We are to become gods!
Please read this sequence of verses to try and understand my train of thought.
Jesus as a Morning Star, but not just a morning star “The Risen Bright Morning Star”
Revelation 22:16
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Jesus as THE Son of God
John 20:31
31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Jesus is an Angel, the Angel of the Lord
Isaiah 9:6 Septuagint LXX version
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: (Literally Aggelos or Angel of great Counsel) for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.
Jude vs. 5
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Acts 7:37-38
37″This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'[h] 38He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
John 1:18
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Galatians 4:14
14Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself
Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions (the other angels / Elohim/ sons of God are his companions)1 Thessalonians 4:16
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Satan as a Morning Star, not just a morning star “A Fallen Morning Star”
Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!Morning Stars are equal to Sons of God and Sons of Gods are Angels
Job 38:7
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Believers become Sons of God at salvation
Galatians 3:26
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
1 John 3:2
2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.When Christ Returns we will be like him Sons of Gods becoming Morning Stars / Angelic beings
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Romans 8:19
19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.2 Peter 1:19
19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts
Revelation 2:26-28
26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give him the morning star.Matthew 22:30
30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
The Sons of Gods are Angels and Angels are Elohim and Elohim are gods.
Psalm 82:6
6 “I said, 'You are gods;
you are all sons of the Most High.'John 10:34-35
34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
We will rule and reign with Christ as Elohim over the nations as in the beginning.
1 Corinthians 6:3
3Do you not know that we will judge angels? (the principalities and powers of this present darkness whom we dethrone and usurp their power)
2 Timothy 4
7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
Revelation 20:6
6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Deuteronomy 32:8
8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.Septuagint LXX version
8 When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God.
CEV version
8that God Most High
gave land to every nation.
He assigned a guardian angel
to each of them,
The Message version
8 When the High God gave the nations their stake,
gave them their place on Earth,
He put each of the peoples within boundaries
under the care of divine guardians.
NLT version
8 When the Most High assigned lands to the nations,
when he divided up the human race,
he established the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number in his heavenly court.AND NOW IN CONCLUSION WHAT MOST CONSIDER BLASPHEMY
We are to become Sons of God / Elohim / Angelic beings that rule the nations
We are to take the place of the dethroned Elohim whom we will judge
We are to become gods!
Psalm 82:6
6 “I said, 'You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.'AND THE SCRIPTURES CANNOT BE BROKEN!
JOHN 10:3535If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
Genesis 3:22
22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, t
he man has become like one of US in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”Revelation 2:7
7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Please give thoughts!
I am glad you posted this.
I was going to do a study on the scriptures that mention Morning Star because I thought it might be relevant to the Preexistence discussion.
But you did the work for me.
This is an improved version of my original post with additonal verses and commentary and some grammatical changes.
I have laid out a sequence of verses trying to demonstrate this thesis:
That Jesus is the firstborn son of God, an angelic being, one of many sons. The firstborn Son was given Israel as his portion of inheritance and when the other sons of God failed to rule their nations justly he inherited all the nations. Michael and his angels cast down the disobedient sons of God (revelation 12). We who have the spirit of God are adopted into the family of God as Sons. We are to take the place of the fallen sons of God and rule the nations that they lost and were cast down from with Christ as our King. We are to become one of the Elohim. We are to become gods!
Please read this sequence of verses to try and understand my train of thought.
Jesus as a Morning Star, but not just a morning star “The Risen Bright Morning Star”
Revelation 22:16
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Jesus as THE Son of God
John 20:31
31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Jesus is an Angel, the Angel of the Lord the firstborn son of God
Isaiah 9:6 Septuagint LXX version
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: (Literally Aggelos or Angel of great Counsel) for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.
Jude vs. 5
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Acts 7:37-38
37″This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people. 38He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1For I want you to know, brothers,[a] that our fathers were all under(A) the cloud, and all(B) passed through the sea, 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3and all ate the same(D) spiritual food, 4and(E) all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
(Christ was following them? Yes, let’s have a look back in Exodus.)
Exodus 14:19
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel.
John 1:18
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(This verse tells us very clearly who Moses saw from the cleft in the rock. YHVH the son, the angel of the Lord, not YHVH Father)Galatians 4:14
14Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself
Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions (the other angels / Elohim/ sons of God are his companions)1 Thessalonians 4:16
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Hebrews 1:6
6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God's angels worship him.”
(This verse is a quote from Deuteronomy 32:43 in the song of Moses, the same chapter discussing the inheritance of nations in Deuteronomy 32:8. YHVH the father giving YHVH his son the chosen people of God as his inheritance.)Jesus is the Angel of the Lord named YHVH after his Father there are two YHVHs.
There were two heavenly beings (a father and a son) who were both known as Yahweh. These two Yahwehs belong to a body of heavenly beings generically called the eloahim (individually called eloah). When standing together in unity (as one), the two Yahwehs are often referred to as “Yahweh eloahi,” eloahi denoting a plurality. Father Yahweh has never been seen, neither has his voice been heard, by any human other than the messiah. The son named Yahweh is the Yahweh of the Old Testament, the one who often spoke with and was seen by the patriarchs. He was originally a malak (angel) of the father's presence who acted as the main spokesman (logos) for the father. This archangel (chief angel) was given the father's name as an expression of his authority in order that he might carry out the duties assigned to him. Yahweh the son, also known as Yah, Yahu, and Yah Yahweh, later became the messiah, whose earthly name was Yahushua (“Yahu Preserves” or “Yahu Saves”)-a name later altered in English translations to Jesus.
Concerning the “Shema” (Deut.6:4) it reads, “Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Mighty One is one Yahweh:” or “Yahweh is one.”
Yahshua said, “I and my Father are one.” (Jn.10:30). Does that mean they are the same being? Yahshua said something similar in Jn.17:22, “And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:”
Here again, Yahshua says he and the Father are one. But he also prays that his followers will be one in the same sense that he and Yahweh are one. That is a oneness of mind, purpose, and will, not a oneness of being.Verses demonstrating two YHVHs and the sharing of the name.
Genesis 19:24
24Then the LORD (YHVH) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD (YHVH) out of heaven. (Read the verses preceding this verse and you see it is the angel talking to Lot who is to be doing the destroying and he promises not to also destroy a near by village called Zoar where Lot wanted to flee to. Jesus was that angel.)
Exodus 23:20
20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.Jesus agrees in the Garden Prayer.
John 17:10-12
10 All who are mine belong to you, and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory. 11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name; now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me.Philippians 2:9-11
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.Satan as a Morning Star, “A Fallen Morning Star”
Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!Morning Stars are equal to Sons of God and Sons of Gods are Angels
Job 38:7
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Believers become Sons of God at salvation
Galatians 3:26
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,1 John 3:2
2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and
what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.When Christ Returns we will be like him Sons of God becoming Morning Stars / Angelic beings
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Corinthians 15:52
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Romans 8:19
19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.2 Peter 1:19
19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts
Revelation 2:26-28
26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give him the morning star.Matthew 22:30
30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
We will rule and reign with Christ as Elohim over the nations as in the beginning when the nations where watched over by Elohim.
1 Corinthians 6:3
3Do you not know that we will judge angels? (The principalities and powers of this present darkness that are dethroned and we usurp their power)
2 Timothy 4:7
7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
Revelation 20:6
6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Deuteronomy 32:8
8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.Septuagint LXX version
8 When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God.
CEV version
8that God Most High gave land to every nation.
He assigned a guardian angel to each of them,
The Message version
8 When the High God gave the nations their stake,
gave them their place on Earth,
He put each of the peoples within boundaries
under the care of divine guardians.
NLT version
8 When the Most High assigned lands to the nations,
when he divided up the human race,
he established the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number in his heavenly court.HERE WE SEE WERE THE PREVIOUS POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES OF THE NATIONS ARE SENTECCED TO DIE
Psalm 82
Verses 1-5 God delivers his case against his disobedient sons who are not rightly ruling their allotted nations.
1 God presides over heaven’s court;
he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:
2 “How long will you hand down unjust decisions
by favoring the wicked?
3 “Give justice to the poor and the orphan;
uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.
4 Rescue the poor and helpless;
deliver them from the grasp of evil people.
5 But these oppressors know nothing;
they are so ignorant!
They wander about in darkness,
while the whole world is shaken to the core.Verse 6 God calls the angels / sons of God / Elohim gods!
6 I say, ‘You are gods;
you are all children of the Most High.Verse 7 the sons of God are sentenced to death. Reminds me of Matthew 25:41
41″Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.7 But you will die like mere mortals
and fall like every other ruler.’”
In verse 8 the only good Son, the only good shepherd, Jesus, who loved righteousness and was raised to a higher position than his companions, is instructed to rise up and inherit all the nations.
8 Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,
for all the nations belong to you.
Comparison of John 10 and Psalm 82:Jesus reply in Jn 10 makes far more sense if he is referring to
divine beings, because he is making the claim that he himself is divine. If he was merely referring to human judges, then he is simply calling himself a man. I don't think this is what the Gospel is trying to say. On the contrary, it is making the claim that Jesus is God.Then what purpose does it serve to say that the “gods” (presuming they are men here) would die like mere men if they were always going to die as mere men? If it was always going to be the case, then why say “like mere men”?
No, in the case of Ps 82, the gods of the divine council are condemned to die like mere men because they fail to govern the earth properly. No one expects the gods to die as mere men, so their condemnation to die as mere men is quite telling. This Psalms calls for an end to henotheism with its national deities each ruling a particular domain, and calls for a new monotheism in which a single deity governs the entire earth. Notice that the scope isn't simply national Israel, but universal. The gods of the nations — not the judges of Israel — have failed to govern the world. Therefore God must needs sack this cabinet and assume autocratic control himself.
He gives all authority to the one son (son of God / Elohim) that is righteous and hated wickedness. Jesus!
AND NOW IN CONCLUSION WHAT MOST CONSIDER BLASPHEMY
We are to become Sons of God / Elohim / Angelic beings that rule the nations
We are to take the place of the dethroned Elohim whom we will judge
The Word of God came to us and bought us with a price so we can be adopted as Sons.
We are to become gods!
Psalm 82:6
6 “I said, 'You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.'JOHN 10:35
35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
WE WILL BECOME LIKE THE ELOHIM KNOWING ALL THINGS, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL AND HAVING ACCESS TO THE TREE OF LIFE
I Corinthians 13:12
12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[c] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
Genesis 3:22
22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”
Revelation 2:7
7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Please reply with your thoughts,
Chris
Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 20 2007,00:35) This is an improved version of my original post with additonal verses and commentary and some grammatical changes. I have laid out a sequence of verses trying to demonstrate this thesis:
That Jesus is the firstborn son of God, an angelic being, one of many sons. The firstborn Son was given Israel as his portion of inheritance and when the other sons of God failed to rule their nations justly he inherited all the nations. Michael and his angels cast down the disobedient sons of God (revelation 12). We who have the spirit of God are adopted into the family of God as Sons. We are to take the place of the fallen sons of God and rule the nations that they lost and were cast down from with Christ as our King. We are to become one of the Elohim. We are to become gods!
Please read this sequence of verses to try and understand my train of thought.
Jesus as a Morning Star, but not just a morning star “The Risen Bright Morning Star”
Revelation 22:16
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Jesus as THE Son of God
John 20:31
31But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Jesus is an Angel, the Angel of the Lord the firstborn son of God
Isaiah 9:6 Septuagint LXX version
6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: (Literally Aggelos or Angel of great Counsel) for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.
Jude vs. 5
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Acts 7:37-38
37″This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people. 38He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1For I want you to know, brothers,[a] that our fathers were all under(A) the cloud, and all(B) passed through the sea, 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3and© all ate the same(D) spiritual food, 4and(E) all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
(Christ was following them? Yes, let’s have a look back in Exodus.)
Exodus 14:19
19 Then the angel of God who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them, 20coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel.
John 1:18
18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(This verse tells us very clearly who Moses saw from the cleft in the rock. YHVH the son, the angel of the Lord, not YHVH Father)Galatians 4:14
14Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself
Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions (the other angels / Elohim/ sons of God are his companions)1 Thessalonians 4:16
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Hebrews 1:6
6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God's angels worship him.”
(This verse is a quote from Deuteronomy 32:43 in the song of Moses, the same chapter discussing the inheritance of nations in Deuteronomy 32:8. YHVH the father giving YHVH his son the chosen people of God as his inheritance.)Jesus is the Angel of the Lord named YHVH after his Father there are two YHVHs.
There were two heavenly beings (a father and a son) who were both known as Yahweh. These two Yahwehs belong to a body of heavenly beings generically called the eloahim (individually called eloah). When standing together in unity (as one), the two Yahwehs are often referred to as “Yahweh eloahi,” eloahi denoting a plurality. Father Yahweh has never been seen, neither has his voice been heard, by any human other than the messiah. The son named Yahweh is the Yahweh of the Old Testament, the one who often spoke with and was seen by the patriarchs. He was originally a malak (angel) of the father's presence who acted as the main spokesman (logos) for the father. This archangel (chief angel) was given the father's name as an expression of his authority in order that he might carry out the duties assigned to him. Yahweh the son, also known as Yah, Yahu, and Yah Yahweh, later became the messiah, whose earthly name was Yahushua (“Yahu Preserves” or “Yahu Saves”)-a name later altered in English translations to Jesus.
Concerning the “Shema” (Deut.6:4) it reads, “Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Mighty One is one Yahweh:” or “Yahweh is one.”
Yahshua said, “I and my Father are one.” (Jn.10:30). Does that mean they are the same being? Yahshua said something similar in Jn.17:22, “And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:”
Here again, Yahshua says he and the Father are one. But he also prays that his followers will be one in the same sense that he and Yahweh are one. That is a oneness of mind, purpose, and will, not a oneness of being.Verses demonstrating two YHVHs and the sharing of the name.
Genesis 19:24
24Then the LORD (YHVH) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD (YHVH) out of heaven. (Read the verses preceding this verse and you see it is the angel talking to Lot who is to be doing the destroying and he promises not to also destroy a near by village called Zoar where Lot wanted to flee to. Jesus was that angel.)
Exodus 23:20
20 “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.Jesus agrees in the Garden Prayer.
John 17:10-12
10 All who are mine belong to you, and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory. 11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name; now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me.Philippians 2:9-11
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.Satan as a Morning Star, “A Fallen Morning Star”
Isaiah 14:12
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!Morning Stars are equal to Sons of God and Sons of Gods are Angels
Job 38:7
7 when the morning stars sang together
an
d all the sons of God shouted for joy?Believers become Sons of God at salvation
Galatians 3:26
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,1 John 3:2
2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.When Christ Returns we will be like him Sons of God becoming Morning Stars / Angelic beings
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Corinthians 15:52
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Romans 8:19
19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.2 Peter 1:19
19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts
Revelation 2:26-28
26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give him the morning star.Matthew 22:30
30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
We will rule and reign with Christ as Elohim over the nations as in the beginning when the nations where watched over by Elohim.
1 Corinthians 6:3
3Do you not know that we will judge angels? (The principalities and powers of this present darkness that are dethroned and we usurp their power)
2 Timothy 4:7
7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
Revelation 20:6
6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Deuteronomy 32:8
8When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.Septuagint LXX version
8 When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God.
CEV version
8that God Most High gave land to every nation.
He assigned a guardian angel to each of them,
The Message version
8 When the High God gave the nations their stake,
gave them their place on Earth,
He put each of the peoples within boundaries
under the care of divine guardians.
NLT version
8 When the Most High assigned lands to the nations,
when he divided up the human race,
he established the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number in his heavenly court.HERE WE SEE WERE THE PREVIOUS POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES OF THE NATIONS ARE SENTECCED TO DIE
Psalm 82
Verses 1-5 God delivers his case against his disobedient sons who are not rightly ruling their allotted nations.
1 God presides over heaven’s court;
he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:
2 “How long will you hand down unjust decisions
by favoring the wicked?
3 “Give justice to the poor and the orphan;
uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.
4 Rescue the poor and helpless;
deliver them from the grasp of evil people.
5 But these oppressors know nothing;
they are so ignorant!
They wander about in darkness,
while the whole world is shaken to the core.Verse 6 God calls the angels / sons of God / Elohim gods!
6 I say, ‘You are gods;
you are all children of the Most High.Verse 7 the sons of God are sentenced to death. Reminds me of Matthew 25:41
41″Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.7 But you will die like mere mortals
and fall like every other ruler.’”
In verse 8 the only good Son, the only good shepherd, Jesus, who loved righteousness and was raised to a higher position than his companions, is instructed to rise up and inherit all the nations.
8 Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,
for all the nations belong to you.
Comparison of John 10 and Psalm 82:Jesus reply in Jn 10 makes far more sense if he is referring to
divine beings, because he is making the claim that he himself is divine. If he was merely referring to human judges, then he is simply calling himself a man. I don't think this is what the Gospel is trying to say. On the contrary, it is making the claim that Jesus is God.Then what purpose does it serve to say that the “gods” (presuming they are men here) would die like mere men if they were always going to die as mere men? If it was always going to be the case, then why say “like mere men”?
No, in the case of Ps 82, the gods of the divine council are condemned to die like mere men because they fail to govern the earth properly. No one expects the gods to die as mere men, so their condemnation to die as mere men is quite telling. This Psalms calls for an end to henotheism with its national deities each ruling a particular domain, and calls for a new monotheism in which a single deity governs the entire earth. Notice that the scope isn't simply national Israel, but universal. The gods of the nations — not the judges of Israel — have failed to govern the world. Therefore God must needs sack this cabinet and assume autocratic control himself.
He gives all authority to the one son (son of God / Elohim) that is righteous and hated wickedness. Jesus!
AND NOW IN CONCLUSION WHAT MOST CONSIDER BLASPHEMY
We are to become Sons of God / Elohim / Angelic beings that rule the nations
We are to take the place of the dethroned Elohim whom we will judge
The Word of God came to us and bought us with a price so we can be adopted as Sons.
We are to become gods!
Psalm 82:6
6 “I said, 'You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.'JOHN 10:35
35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken—
WE WILL BECOME LIKE THE ELOHIM KNOWING ALL THINGS, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL AND HAVING ACCESS TO THE TREE OF LIFE
I Corinthians 13:12
12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[c] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
Genesis 3:22
22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”
Revelation 2:7
7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Pl
ease reply with your thoughts,Chris
Quote Jesus agrees in the Garden Prayer.
John 17:10-12
10 All who are mine belong to you, and you have given them to me, so they bring me glory. 11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name; now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are. 12 During my time here, I protected them by the power of the name you gave me.The diagoltt has it the same as the KJ version.
http://www.thedcl.org/bible/diaglott-nt/ed-john.pdf
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Scripture does not say “the name that you have given me”.
“KEEP THROUGH 'THINE OWN NAME' THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME”
Word for word translation says keep through God's Name those who HE gave to Jesus. It does not say Jesus has the same Name as God.
You Said:
The diagoltt has it the same as the KJ version.
http://www.thedcl.org/bible/diaglott-nt/ed-john.pdf
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Scripture does not say “the name that you have given me”.
“KEEP THROUGH 'THINE OWN NAME' THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME”
Word for word translation says keep through God's Name those who HE gave to Jesus. It does not say Jesus has the same Name as God.
It depends on the scholars and the translations.
Lets see the different versions:
NIV
11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
NASB
11″I am no longer in the world; and yet (A)they themselves are in the world, and (B)I come to You ÂHoly Father, keep them in Your name, the name (D)which You have given Me, that (E)they may be one even as We are.
NLT
11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name;[a] now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are.
ESV
11And I am no longer in the world, but(A) they are in the world, and(B) I am coming to you. Holy Father,(D) keep them in your name,(E) which you have given me,(F) that they may be one,(G) even as we are one.
CEV
11Holy Father, I am no longer in the world. I am coming to you, but my followers are still in the world. So keep them safe by the power of the name that you have given me. Then they will be one with each other, just as you and I are one.
AND NOW THE LONELY KJV
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
It seems most scholars disagree with your opinion.
Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 20 2007,01:49) You Said: The diagoltt has it the same as the KJ version.
http://www.thedcl.org/bible/diaglott-nt/ed-john.pdf
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Scripture does not say “the name that you have given me”.
“KEEP THROUGH 'THINE OWN NAME' THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME”
Word for word translation says keep through God's Name those who HE gave to Jesus. It does not say Jesus has the same Name as God.
It depends on the scholars and the translations.
Lets see the different versions:
NIV
11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
NASB
11″I am no longer in the world; and yet (A)they themselves are in the world, and (B)I come to You ©Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name (D)which You have given Me, that (E)they may be one even as We are.
NLT
11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name;[a] now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are.
ESV
11And I am no longer in the world, but(A) they are in the world, and(B) I am coming to you.© Holy Father,(D) keep them in your name,(E) which you have given me,(F) that they may be one,(G) even as we are one.
CEV
11Holy Father, I am no longer in the world. I am coming to you, but my followers are still in the world. So keep them safe by the power of the name that you have given me. Then they will be one with each other, just as you and I are one.
AND NOW THE LONELY KJV
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
It seems most scholars disagree with your opinion.
Word for Word translation, Greek to english right their for you to see. I'm no Greek scholar but are you?The lonely King James is not the best then one of the best translations.
BTW you left out a couple of translations.
(LITV) And no longer am I in the world, yet these are in the world; and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, those whom You gave to Me, that they may be one as We are.
(MKJV) And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep them in Your name, those whom You have given Me, so that they may be one as We are.
I believe the Word for Word translation.
And I didn't say anything I just pointed out what you have not.
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 20 2007,02:03) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 20 2007,01:49) You Said: The diagoltt has it the same as the KJ version.
http://www.thedcl.org/bible/diaglott-nt/ed-john.pdf
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Scripture does not say “the name that you have given me”.
“KEEP THROUGH 'THINE OWN NAME' THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME”
Word for word translation says keep through God's Name those who HE gave to Jesus. It does not say Jesus has the same Name as God.
It depends on the scholars and the translations.
Lets see the different versions:
NIV
11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
NASB
11″I am no longer in the world; and yet (A)they themselves are in the world, and (B)I come to You ©Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name (D)which You have given Me, that (E)they may be one even as We are.
NLT
11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name;[a] now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are.
ESV
11And I am no longer in the world, but(A) they are in the world, and(B) I am coming to you.© Holy Father,(D) keep them in your name,(E) which you have given me,(F) that they may be one,(G) even as we are one.
CEV
11Holy Father, I am no longer in the world. I am coming to you, but my followers are still in the world. So keep them safe by the power of the name that you have given me. Then they will be one with each other, just as you and I are one.
AND NOW THE LONELY KJV
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
It seems most scholars disagree with your opinion.
Word for Word translation, Greek to english right their for you to see. I'm no Greek scholar but are you?The lonely King James is not the best then one of the best translations.
BTW you left out a couple of translations.
(LITV) And no longer am I in the world, yet these are in the world; and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, those whom You gave to Me, that they may be one as We are.
(MKJV) And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep them in Your name, those whom You have given Me, so that they may be one as We are.
I believe the Word for Word translation.
And I didn't say anything I just pointed out what you have not.
My thesis fortunately does not hinge on the debateability of one verse.However, in totality the majority of translations and interpretations I have personally researched agree with my position.
Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 20 2007,02:13) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 20 2007,02:03) Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 20 2007,01:49) You Said: The diagoltt has it the same as the KJ version.
http://www.thedcl.org/bible/diaglott-nt/ed-john.pdf
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Scripture does not say “the name that you have given me”.
“KEEP THROUGH 'THINE OWN NAME' THOSE WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME”
Word for word translation says keep through God's Name those who HE gave to Jesus. It does not say Jesus has the same Name as God.
It depends on the scholars and the translations.
Lets see the different versions:
NIV
11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
NASB
11″I am no longer in the world; and yet (A)they themselves are in the world, and (B)I come to You ©Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name (D)which You have given Me, that (E)they may be one even as We are.
NLT
11 Now I am departing from the world; they are staying in this world, but I am coming to you. Holy Father, you have given me your name;[a] now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are.
ESV
11And I am no longer in the world, but(A) they are in the world, and(B) I am coming to you.© Holy Father,(D) keep them in your name,(E) which you have given me,(F) that they may be one,(G) even as we are one.
CEV
11Holy Father, I am no longer in the world. I am coming to you, but my followers are still in the world. So keep them safe by the power of the name that you have given me. Then they will be one with each other, just as you and I are one.
AND NOW THE LONELY KJV
11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
It seems most scholars disagree with your opinion.
Word for Word translation, Greek to english right their for you to see. I'm no Greek scholar but are you?The lonely King James is not the best then one of the best translations.
BTW you left out a couple of translations.
(LITV) And no longer am I in the world, yet these are in the world; and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, those whom You gave to Me, that they may be one as We are.
(MKJV) And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep them in Your name, those whom You have given Me, so that they may be one as We are.
I believe the Word for Word translation.
And I didn't say anything I just pointed out what you have not.
My thesis fortunately does not hinge on the debateability of one verse.However, in totality the majority of translations and interpretations I have personally researched agree with my position.
The majority is not always correct. If the “majority” were correct the Satan would not have deceived the whole world.Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
If all christian were correct in their beliefs then Jesus would not be asking His People to come out of the Harlot.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
In fact the children of God are the “minority” and NOT the
” majority”.
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.Seems these saints are not popular among mainstream Christianty may even be considered a cult. But Jesus will make those worship at the minotity's feet “TO KNOW” That HE ~Jesus~ loved them.
As I said I'm just pointing out what you have NOT
It's nothing personnel
God bless,
Ken
Well said!
I agree with your post completely.
However, I think we would both agree that the position I have is not remotely the majority view.
But what can we do but follow the evidence the best we can. Which is what I am sincerely doing.
Hebrews 11
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.Quote (Morningstar @ Oct. 20 2007,02:44) Well said! I agree with your post completely.
However, I think we would both agree that the position I have is not remotely the majority view.
But what can we do but follow the evidence the best we can. Which is what I am sincerely doing.
Hebrews 11
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
God bless MS!Hi All,
I'm in AZ and had to check in. I read the post of 'morningstar and it really didn't suprise me to see anyone beleiving that we can be gods. It has been Satan's plan all along. That is the reason he was kicked out of heaven. That is how sin first came into the world! You can try to be gods all you want but there is only one El, and no other! I will keep my place below my Master the Messiah who is under our El YHWH. El Shaddi Great and wonderfull is Your Name.I'll be back home Thursday, and this will be one of my first stops. I miss you all, but I gotta go, baby is hungry!
Love,
LaurelQuote (Laurel @ Oct. 20 2007,08:18) Hi All,
I'm in AZ and had to check in. I read the post of 'morningstar and it really didn't suprise me to see anyone beleiving that we can be gods. It has been Satan's plan all along. That is the reason he was kicked out of heaven. That is how sin first came into the world! You can try to be gods all you want but there is only one El, and no other! I will keep my place below my Master the Messiah who is under our El YHWH. El Shaddi Great and wonderfull is Your Name.I'll be back home Thursday, and this will be one of my first stops. I miss you all, but I gotta go, baby is hungry!
Love,
Laurel
demonstrate that with scriptureQuote (Laurel @ Oct. 20 2007,08:18) Hi All,
I'm in AZ and had to check in. I read the post of 'morningstar and it really didn't suprise me to see anyone beleiving that we can be gods. It has been Satan's plan all along. That is the reason he was kicked out of heaven. That is how sin first came into the world! You can try to be gods all you want but there is only one El, and no other! I will keep my place below my Master the Messiah who is under our El YHWH. El Shaddi Great and wonderfull is Your Name.I'll be back home Thursday, and this will be one of my first stops. I miss you all, but I gotta go, baby is hungry!
Love,
Laurel
As for Satan being kicked out of heaven for wanting to be a god thats not the case. The scriptures say he wanted to exalt himself above El Most High. He wanted to be like God (with a capital G). Assuming those passages in Isaiah and Ezekiel are actually describing Satan. (It's possible they could be talking about any of the angels that fell.)The angels were not carrying out their Fathers will and were exalting themselves into positions equal to his by carrying out their own will. As watchers they perverted and twisted man, caused the flood and taught them horrible things. They lost their positions as rightful regents (gods).
The scriptures say that God Most High gave his sons the title of gods. To rule as regents over the nations.
That is exactly what we will be doing and we will be like Christ, we will be like the angels and the morning star will rise within us.
MorningStar;
Perfection is not discussed much but the scriptures do support your position of ruling with God. Romans 8:19 says, “The earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the Son of God.” Jesus also said, the disciple is not above his master, but he that is perfect shall be as his master. Paul the apostle said that he pressed toward the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. I'll let you make your own interpretation of these verses.
Jesus gave us some insight that I've never heard espoused by anyone. Not that others haven't seen the same, but I will share my view. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is like a man that gave his goods to his servants and then went on a far journey. His promise was that those who were good and faithful servants would be made ruler over all his goods. What Christ was trying to tell us was that God exalts those who please him. Indeed, Christ was exalted as Lord himself over heaven and earth, but is still subject to his Father.
There's also another message in the above parable that if the Lord of that servant returns and the servant does what is evil in the sight of the Lord that there will be consequences.
Here's a question that supports your view, if the servants chose to do evil, why were they made rulers over their lords house to begin with? We know that the angels that sinned received judgment and are kept in chains of darkness, but it appears that God had given them great position which they jeopardized by disobedience.
Jesus never referred to himself as an angel, nor does he call us angels, but he did point out similar characteristics as you brought out.
When the mother of James and John brought her sons to Jesus and requested that they be granted to sit with him in heaven, one on his right and another on his left, Christ responded, ye know not what ye ask, are ye able to drink of the cup that I am baptised with? He also pointed out that only God himself could grant such a request because to sit on his right hand or his left will be given to those to whom it is prepared.
The message is you will have to pay a great price for such a great place in glory. We like the thought of glory, but what about the price.There are some “perfection” teachings that really stress becoming perfect in Christ. Most of them are criticized by the majority and reject the view of perfection but it is in the scripture.
Another interesting aspect of being great in the kingdom according to Jesus was being servant of all. That's really the path to greatness in Christ. However, it's doubtful that anyone that rejects the view of coming to maturity in Christ will attain the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ because such rejection is manifest unbelief and faith is required to please God at all times. Indeed, we live by faith, and digress in unbelief.
Finally, according to your faith, be it unto you.
Steven
Quote (IM4Truth @ Oct. 21 2007,06:09) Morning Star Are you referring to 1 Corinth. 15:28? Peace ans Love Mrs.
At the end Yes The Father will be handed over everything. I did not refer to this in my study. But yes I believe it.Quote (Mr. Steve @ Oct. 21 2007,09:02) MorningStar; Perfection is not discussed much but the scriptures do support your position of ruling with God. Romans 8:19 says, “The earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the Son of God.” Jesus also said, the disciple is not above his master, but he that is perfect shall be as his master. Paul the apostle said that he pressed toward the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. I'll let you make your own interpretation of these verses.
Jesus gave us some insight that I've never heard espoused by anyone. Not that others haven't seen the same, but I will share my view. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is like a man that gave his goods to his servants and then went on a far journey. His promise was that those who were good and faithful servants would be made ruler over all his goods. What Christ was trying to tell us was that God exalts those who please him. Indeed, Christ was exalted as Lord himself over heaven and earth, but is still subject to his Father.
There's also another message in the above parable that if the Lord of that servant returns and the servant does what is evil in the sight of the Lord that there will be consequences.
Here's a question that supports your view, if the servants chose to do evil, why were they made rulers over their lords house to begin with? We know that the angels that sinned received judgment and are kept in chains of darkness, but it appears that God had given them great position which they jeopardized by disobedience.
Jesus never referred to himself as an angel, nor does he call us angels, but he did point out similar characteristics as you brought out.
When the mother of James and John brought her sons to Jesus and requested that they be granted to sit with him in heaven, one on his right and another on his left, Christ responded, ye know not what ye ask, are ye able to drink of the cup that I am baptised with? He also pointed out that only God himself could grant such a request because to sit on his right hand or his left will be given to those to whom it is prepared.
The message is you will have to pay a great price for such a great place in glory. We like the thought of glory, but what about the price.There are some “perfection” teachings that really stress becoming perfect in Christ. Most of them are criticized by the majority and reject the view of perfection but it is in the scripture.
Another interesting aspect of being great in the kingdom according to Jesus was being servant of all. That's really the path to greatness in Christ. However, it's doubtful that anyone that rejects the view of coming to maturity in Christ will attain the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ because such rejection is manifest unbelief and faith is required to please God at all times. Indeed, we live by faith, and digress in unbelief.
Finally, according to your faith, be it unto you.
Steven
Thank you for input. I agree very much with your post. I think it is all very literal. The least will be the greatest.Zechariah 12
8 On that day the Lord will defend the people of Jerusalem; the weakest among them will be as mighty as King David! And the royal descendants will be like God (elohim), like the angel of the Lord who goes before them! (Jesus)
Hi Morning Star:
What about the following verse relative to your thesis?
Quote Hebrews 2:5-9
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower F6 than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.God Bless
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