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Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 17 2010,11:48) Quote (Ed J @ June 17 2010,09:51) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 17 2010,05:36) ED J said: Quote Apparently you haven't done your homework thoroughly enough! Strong's Greek # 758
ἄρχων archón: chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.
Once again the AKJV has Rev.1:5 translated correctly!
ED J,Strong indicates that “archon” is from # 757 which means “to be first in rank.” Then he defines “archon” itself as “first in rank or power.” Then he gives the secondary meanings you have indicated.
So it is you who has not done your homework. The first definition is the primary definition.
And you misuse the word “prince.” While on the throne King James was referred to as “the Mighty King James” or “the Mighty Prince James. So a prince was not a lesser co-regent. The new testament says that Jesus was both Israel's King and Prince. Jesus rode into Jerusalem as Israel's King. This proves that you misuse the word “prince.” The word “prince” in the KJV is archaic. The Greek “archon” should be translated “ruler” or “chief ruler.”
You and I are done for good! You do not know how to engage in honest discourse.
the Roo
Hi Kang,Rev.1:5 is from # 758 not 757?
Ed J
But #758 is from #757.Anyway, the primary meaning of 758 is “first in rank or power.” The meanings you gave for “archon” are secondary meanings. The word “prince” is archaic English. The word “archon” should be updated to simply mean “ruler” which it is in most current translations.
Jesus is both King and Prince.
KJ
Thanks Jack!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (karmarie @ June 17 2010,11:10) Quote (Ed J @ June 16 2010,02:13) Quote (karmarie @ June 15 2010,10:52) Hi Ed, I dont get your answer, sorry, so who do you believe is Isreal, you know, when Paul says “all Isreal will be saved”
HI Karmarie,Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:
ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Eph.3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus
throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.1Cor.12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,That still doesnt answer the question.
Is Isreal in you opinion,
A) The country nation today on the earth (in the middle east)
B) A race of people/Hebrews 12 tribes
C) Christians today (So Isreal after Jesus became followers in the Son)
AB or C?
Hi Karmarie,The most important of these definitions is Spiritual believers in God!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (karmarie @ June 17 2010,11:59) KJ, I have learnt preterist ideas, I will be looking more into this, 2nd Peter 3 says your both scoffers lol. I have to go.
k,Read 2 Peter again carefully. It says that the “scoffers” are those who deny Christ will come. I don't deny that He was to come. I assert that He came. He promised His disciples that some of them would remain alive until He came (Matthew 16).
KJ
Hi KJ,
Some of them still are alive.
As alive as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are to God.
[Lk20.37-38]
Alive in the Living Spirit of GodHi KJ.
Satan is in the Lake of Fire and we are in the new earth?
You poor man. You have no hope then, as your hope is this world.
Are you a Christadelphian or something?
Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,10:51) Hi KJ. Satan is in the Lake of Fire and we are in the new earth?
You poor man. You have no hope then, as your hope is this world.
Are you a Christadelphian or something?
Come om t8!Sin, death and sinners are present in the new earth according to Isaiah's account (Is. 65-66). Please engage with me from the whole counsel of God on the matter.
You say I am a “poor man.” But Paul said that God would crush satan under THEIR feet “SHORTLY”
“And the God of peace shall crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY” (Rom. 16:20).
Paul told the saints at Rome that God would crush satan under THEIR FEET AND THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN shortly. Nick's explanation is that time is “spiritual” in the Bible.
If time is “spiritual” in the Bible then how do we know there is a literal thousand years? Nick could not answer. What's your explanation t8?I am NOT a Christadelphian. I am a Preterist. And I indeed have hope because my hope and my inheritance is in heaven and not on some supposed new planet.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 1 Peter 1:3-4
Note that my “living hope” is “in heaven.” The new earth of Revelation 21-22 is symbolic for the new covenant age. Again, Isaiah's account clearly indicates that sin, death and sinners live on the new earth, that is, they are present in the new covenant age.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,12:48) “And the God of peace shall crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY” (Rom. 16:20).
Crushing Satan under our feet is not the same as Satan being thrown into the Lake of Fire. The whole world is still under the sway of the evil one. We are in the world, but the evil one touches us not.You are still a poor man if this is the new earth for you because it is in reality the old one.
Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,12:51) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,12:48) “And the God of peace shall crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY” (Rom. 16:20).
Crushing Satan under our feet is not the same as Satan being thrown into the Lake of Fire. The whole world is still under the sway of the evil one. We are in the world, but the evil one touches us not.You are still a poor man if this is the new earth for you because it is in reality the old one.
Who said anything about satan being crushed under OUR feet? Paul said that satan would be crushed under THEIR feet.It must be at the time of His being cast into the lake of fire because Jesus said that satan's judgment was “NOW.” What comes after his judgment? His punishment of course. So if his judgment was “NOW” then his punishment was shortly thereafter.
Read Isaiah 65-66. Sin and death are present in the “new earth.” So the new earth is not the utopia futurists think it to be.
KJ
Hi KJ,
Are you not yet one with Paul and the brothers in the Spirit of Christ?
Linger no more but seek the kingdomQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,14:48) “And the God of peace shall crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY” (Rom. 16:20). Paul told the saints at Rome that God would crush satan under THEIR FEET AND THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN shortly. Nick's explanation is that time is “spiritual” in the Bible.
If time is “spiritual” in the Bible then how do we know there is a literal thousand years? Nick could not answer. What's your explanation t8?I am NOT a Christadelphian. I am a Preterist. And I indeed have hope because my hope and my inheritance is in heaven and not on some supposed new planet.
Note that my “living hope” is “in heaven.” The new earth of Revelation 21-22 is symbolic for the new covenant age. Again, Isaiah's account clearly indicates that sin, death and sinners live on the new earth, that is, they are present in the new covenant age.
KJ, now this is getting interesting. What your saying is almost Amillenial.Satans power is crushed
Heaven is in – heaven.
Thousands of years is not some thousand year “millenium”So is Amillenial Preterist?
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,12:57) Quote (t8 @ June 18 2010,12:51) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,12:48) “And the God of peace shall crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY” (Rom. 16:20).
Crushing Satan under our feet is not the same as Satan being thrown into the Lake of Fire. The whole world is still under the sway of the evil one. We are in the world, but the evil one touches us not.You are still a poor man if this is the new earth for you because it is in reality the old one.
Who said anything about satan being crushed under OUR feet? Paul said that satan would be crushed under THEIR feet.It must be at the time of His being cast into the lake of fire because Jesus said that satan's judgment was “NOW.” What comes after his judgment? His punishment of course. So if his judgment was “NOW” then his punishment was shortly thereafter.
Read Isaiah 65-66. Sin and death are present in the “new earth.” So the new earth is not the utopia futurists think it to be.
KJ
I take it that you must believe that Jesus has returned like lightning from the east to the west.We are warned about people who teach this as if it has already happened.
In addition, you push the Trinity Doctrine.
You are truly a false teacher. You are not a misguided person who has made some errors, but a man who qualifies as a false teacher.
KJ, preterist is Amillenial in some ways, but where its different is Amillenialists dont believe Jesus has returned, they also believe Satan will be loosed one last time to decieve the world, then is the return of Jesus, the day of the Lord and destruction of all ungodly, judgment day.
So the day of the Lord hasnt come yet, its perfectly in agreement with Peter 3, and with Revelation. But it believes the 'gospel age' the “Thousand year” millenium is right now, when Satans power has been limited.
Quote (karmarie @ June 19 2010,13:27) KJ, preterist is Amillenial in some ways, but where its different is Amillenialists dont believe Jesus has returned, they also believe Satan will be loosed one last time to decieve the world, then is the return of Jesus, the day of the Lord and destruction of all ungodly, judgment day. So the day of the Lord hasnt come yet, its perfectly in agreement with Peter 3, and with Revelation. But it believes the 'gospel age' the “Thousand year” millenium is right now, when Satans power has been limited.
Kyou say;when Satans power has been limited
wen was that ?? i mean limited powers for Satan
i have heard limited access but powers ??
PierreHi T.
Satans power is limited, the spreading of the gospel to the whole world is because of this 'limiting of power' but shortly, Satan will be allowed full power to 'rule the world' decieve the nations. But Jesus will return, and destroy that.
Amilleniasm is the view held by Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans etc. Its what I believe too.If you want to read more on this , heres (alot) of reading…
Floyd E. Hamilton (The Basis of Millennial Faith) makes some helpful observations on the subject of Satan's being bound.
'I suppose that no one would insist that Satan is to be bound with a literal chain of iron or some other metal, for Satan is a spirit and material chains could not hold him captive for a moment. Binding always means the limitation of power, in some way. When men bound themselves with an oath not to do something, they agreed to limit their own power and rights to the extent of their oaths. A man and wife are bound by their marriage vows, but that does not mean that they are bound in respect to other relationships in life. A slave is bound to his master, but he lives his life as a human being with freedom to do countless other things which do not interfere with his relationship as a slave to his master. So Satan's being bound does not mean that he is powerless to tempt people, and we know that he does. It is merely limitation of Satan's power in one particular respect especially, that of ability to deceive the nations. During the interadventual period the gospel is to be proclaimed to all nations, and Satan is powerless to prevent it. The way of salvation has been opened to all nations and there is nothing that Satan can do to block that way' (pp. 131-32).
'In Hebrews 2:14, the writer tells us, that through death He might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. Christ brought the devil to nought, that is, He limited the devil's power in such a way that all his efforts amounted to nothing, and his power was definitely frustrated. All these things show that in the New Testament Christ claimed that in a very real sense he had bound Satan, and limited his power. In Revelation 20, one particular aspect of that binding is before us, namely, the limiting of Satan's power to deceive the nations as he did before the coming of Christ. From that time forward during the whole of the interadventual dispensation Satan is defeated in fact. He can still go about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, but in this particular respect he is a caged lion' (ibid., pp. 132-33).
“…….Having said that Satan was bound, John went on to say that he would be released at the end of the millennium for a little time (Rev 20:3). Now this also is in keeping with the clear teachings of the New Testament. This loosing, I believe, corresponds with the appearing of the man of sin referred to by the apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. Paul's statement, The mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way, corresponds perfectly with what we have said about the limiting of Satan's present power. This restrainer is taken to be the Holy Spirit. This also points up the fact that Satan is bound, having only such power as God grants him. Whenever God is ready, he will remove the restrainer; that is, the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way (2 Thess 2:7). Then, says Paul, the lawless one (man of sin) will be given full power to deceive them that perish (vs 1O). Paul goes on to say that the Lord Jesus Christ will slay the man of sin (Satan) at His second coming. Compare this teaching and order of events with John the Revelator's teaching in Revelation 20. John says that after the millennium Satan, who has been chained during that period, will be loosed for a little time (vs. 3) and that he will then go about to deceive the nations. John says, in symbolic language (vs. 9), that fire from heaven will put down Satan and his followers. A comparison of 2 Thessalonians 1 and 2 with Revelation 20 cannot help but reveal that Paul and John both speak of the same events. And both passages agree entirely with many other clear passages of the Bible dealing with our Lord's second coming and events preceding it.
http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/full.asp?id=24%7C24%7C168
Hi Sis Karmarie,
Good post it is. But do you know the Ha'satan in OT is entirely different from the prince Satan in the NT. There is no proof for Christian powerful Satan/Devil in the Hebrew scriptures. It is purely the invention of Christianity to make this Phantom being as an adversary to God Himself who created such being. Please understand God from Jewish point of view you will see the misconceptions of Christianity a new religion invented by Jesus' followers which he himself never intended.Peace and love to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ June 19 2010,22:52) Hi Sis Karmarie,
Good post it is. But do you know the Ha'satan in OT is entirely different from the prince Satan in the NT. There is no proof for Christian powerful Satan/Devil in the Hebrew scriptures. It is purely the invention of Christianity to make this Phantom being as an adversary to God Himself who created such being. Please understand God from Jewish point of view you will see the misconceptions of Christianity a new religion invented by Jesus' followers which he himself never intended.Peace and love to you
Adam
Greetings G….. interesting observation….Iam curious how do you determine the difference between the two adversary…Who was the arch angel cast down to earth compared to the tempter in the wilderness…Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2010,00:52) Hi Sis Karmarie,
Good post it is. But do you know the Ha'satan in OT is entirely different from the prince Satan in the NT. There is no proof for Christian powerful Satan/Devil in the Hebrew scriptures. It is purely the invention of Christianity to make this Phantom being as an adversary to God Himself who created such being. Please understand God from Jewish point of view you will see the misconceptions of Christianity a new religion invented by Jesus' followers which he himself never intended.Peace and love to you
Adam
Hi Adam.God creates, Satan I believe has a purpose, What I hate is when Christians use Satans name over and over, Jude and Peter warned people not to do that. Not to blaspheme what they dont understand.
Half of my family are Jewish Adam, I know nothing about it though.
I follow the religeon of God and Jesus, not man or their teachings.
Peace and love to you too Adam.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Oct. 28 2009,00:14) Georg said: Quote thinker Have you ever considered to become a science fiction writer?
Georg
Georg,
I noticed that you did not comment on Isaiah's statement that physical death and sin continues in the new earth. It says also that sinners are there (65:20). Neither did you comment on John's vision which says that the Spirit and the Bride invite people to drink of the waters of salvation (22:17).Because of the books on prophecy you read you have a false expectation as the Jews did in Jesus' day. How about a real reply?
There will NEVER be an earth where there is no sin and death. This was promised us only in heaven. It is the contemporary books on prophecy that contain all the “fiction.”
thinker
Wrong my Husbnd does not read any books except the Bible, so that 's about your theory…. no good…and about theNew earth, does it not say also that there will be no more pain an no more sorrow and no more tears…. well my friend I am sitting here andI have pain some more severe then other pain… and you are a pain becauseyou do not go by what is written, but make up your own theory….IreneQuote (karmarie @ June 19 2010,14:26) Hi T. Satans power is limited, the spreading of the gospel to the whole world is because of this 'limiting of power' but shortly, Satan will be allowed full power to 'rule the world' decieve the nations. But Jesus will return, and destroy that.
Amilleniasm is the view held by Eastern Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans etc. Its what I believe too.If you want to read more on this , heres (alot) of reading…
Floyd E. Hamilton (The Basis of Millennial Faith) makes some helpful observations on the subject of Satan's being bound.
'I suppose that no one would insist that Satan is to be bound with a literal chain of iron or some other metal, for Satan is a spirit and material chains could not hold him captive for a moment. Binding always means the limitation of power, in some way. When men bound themselves with an oath not to do something, they agreed to limit their own power and rights to the extent of their oaths. A man and wife are bound by their marriage vows, but that does not mean that they are bound in respect to other relationships in life. A slave is bound to his master, but he lives his life as a human being with freedom to do countless other things which do not interfere with his relationship as a slave to his master. So Satan's being bound does not mean that he is powerless to tempt people, and we know that he does. It is merely limitation of Satan's power in one particular respect especially, that of ability to deceive the nations. During the interadventual period the gospel is to be proclaimed to all nations, and Satan is powerless to prevent it. The way of salvation has been opened to all nations and there is nothing that Satan can do to block that way' (pp. 131-32).
'In Hebrews 2:14, the writer tells us, that through death He might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. Christ brought the devil to nought, that is, He limited the devil's power in such a way that all his efforts amounted to nothing, and his power was definitely frustrated. All these things show that in the New Testament Christ claimed that in a very real sense he had bound Satan, and limited his power. In Revelation 20, one particular aspect of that binding is before us, namely, the limiting of Satan's power to deceive the nations as he did before the coming of Christ. From that time forward during the whole of the interadventual dispensation Satan is defeated in fact. He can still go about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, but in this particular respect he is a caged lion' (ibid., pp. 132-33).
“…….Having said that Satan was bound, John went on to say that he would be released at the end of the millennium for a little time (Rev 20:3). Now this also is in keeping with the clear teachings of the New Testament. This loosing, I believe, corresponds with the appearing of the man of sin referred to by the apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. Paul's statement, The mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way, corresponds perfectly with what we have said about the limiting of Satan's present power. This restrainer is taken to be the Holy Spirit. This also points up the fact that Satan is bound, having only such power as God grants him. Whenever God is ready, he will remove the restrainer; that is, the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way (2 Thess 2:7). Then, says Paul, the lawless one (man of sin) will be given full power to deceive them that perish (vs 1O). Paul goes on to say that the Lord Jesus Christ will slay the man of sin (Satan) at His second coming. Compare this teaching and order of events with John the Revelator's teaching in Revelation 20. John says that after the millennium Satan, who has been chained during that period, will be loosed for a little time (vs. 3) and that he will then go about to deceive the nations. John says, in symbolic language (vs. 9), that fire from heaven will put down Satan and his followers. A comparison of 2 Thessalonians 1 and 2 with Revelation 20 cannot help but reveal that Paul and John both speak of the same events. And both passages agree entirely with many other clear passages of the Bible dealing with our Lord's second coming and events preceding it.
http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/articles/full.asp?id=24%7C24%7C168
Kyou really think Satan is limited,think again there is only one truth and that is ;the bible the word of God is spread all over the world,and because of Internet the knowledge also is spread.
this is the work of God,using men in man y different ways.
as for the power of Satan look around you and open your hears and eyes ,what is it you see in the so called Christian religion? confusion,corruption,perversion,degradation of moral,crimes of all sorts,lies,deceit.
even you are you sure to know the truth of God??
are you still trying to see or do you see it ,i mean the will of God ??so that it can be seen in your comments and remarks you make in the quotes.??
Pierre
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