- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi KJ,
So this was an extraordinarily hot fire, enough to burn up the elements?
More than the usual house fire?
Prove itQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:00) Hi KJ,
Really?
You have evidence about this claim?
1. Peter said that the 'elements' would be burned up. In the new testament the word 'elements' always refers to the things of the Mosaic economy.2. Peter said that the heaven and earth in Noah's day was destroyed. Yet we live on the same planet that Noah lived on before the flood. Just as the earth underwent a covenantal renewal in Noah's time by the removal of the wicked, so it underwent a covenantal renewal again when the things of Judaism were removed in ad70.
3. The expression “new” [earth] refers to covenantal renewal. Isaiah saw a new earth inwhich sin and death still exist. By this we know that he was not speaking about a new earth as defined by futurist traditions. Isaiah's vision was about the earth in the new covenant age.
We are in the new earth.
KJ
Hi KJ,
So you are the arbiter of truth?
You have a rationalisation for every scriptural truth?Preterism is of man but so is trinity
Why should we be surprised if one folly begets another?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:16) Hi KJ,
So you are the arbiter of truth?
You have a rationalisation for every scriptural truth?Preterism is of man but so is trinity
Why should we be surprised if one folly begets another?
There are just as many non-trinitarian preterists as trinitarian preterists. I have contended with preterists about Jesus too.Your statement shows your ignorance. Any preterist discussion board will reveal that they are divided over the trinity just as you futurists are divided over the trinity.
You need to broaden your horizons and learn the real world Nick.
KJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:20) Hi KJ,
The new earth is after the judgement.
So what is your hope ?
Correct. The new earth is AFTER the judgment. The judgment is past and the new earth is now.KJ
Satans powers were limited so the good news could be spread throughout the world, which has happened. If Satan had full control this couldnt have happened, however in the Middle East the beast has risen and is under the control, so it would mean we are up to the end, when the nations (of the middle east) will be decieved , (one last time let loose) and wage war, just wait watch and see.
Amillenial.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:32) Hi KJ,
If you do not face judgement you have no future.
After death the judgement[Heb9.27]
Jesus said that he who does not believe has been judged ALREADY. He said that those who believe shall not come into judgment. So non-believers have been judged and believers do not face judgment at all.Hebrews 9:27 is talking about the way it was under the old covenant. The next verse say this, “So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.”
27 And as it is appointed for men to die ONCE, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered ONCE to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
It was appointed unto men ONCE to die under the old covenant. Under the new covenant Christ died ONCE in their behalf. So those who believe do not face judgment.
KJ
Hi KJ,
The judgement is already made about who is saved.[Jn3.18, Jn 16.9]
But men die then await resurrection to face judgement[Heb 9]
Faith in Jesus is the deciding issue, You must be born again.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 07 2010,09:57) Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2010,06:40) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:52) Ed J You failed to address all my points. We're done. Whose next?
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,Why can't you just explain to us all here how you come to the 70 AD. date?
Posting the related Scriptures would also add to our understanding.You should give the related bible verses stating why you believe the way you do
instead of your current tactics of trying to prove the other 'wrong', because it is NOT working!For you to assume we should 'blindly' accept what you propose is the core of 'your problem'.
That is why you are getting NOWHERE in your various Forum debates here!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J,I already explained the ad70 date. Jesus said that the destruction of Jerusalem was the sign that His coming was “near” (Matt 24; Mk. 13; Lk. 21).
Jerusalem was destroyed in ad70. Ergo….
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,I do appreciate your further explanation and if you don't want to discuss this any further, I'll drop it; OK?
I do have a question though, what country do you live in?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,13:05) Hi KJ,
The judgement is already made about who is saved.[Jn3.18, Jn 16.9]
But men die then await resurrection to face judgement[Heb 9]
Faith in Jesus is the deciding issue, You must be born again.
nickthe way the judgement works as been set,and men as until is dead and then the judgement can apply because men actions stop at dead..[Jn3.18,
and the judgement application act only comes at the second resurrection.
Pierre
Quote (karmarie @ June 07 2010,10:53) The actual end is described in 2nd Peter. That hasnt happened yet.
Peter was talking about the end of the old coveannt age (old earth). The new earth is the new covenant age.KJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,13:05) Hi KJ,
The judgement is already made about who is saved.[Jn3.18, Jn 16.9]
But men die then await resurrection to face judgement[Heb 9]
Faith in Jesus is the deciding issue, You must be born again.
The proper understanding of Hebrews 9:27 is as follows:Old covenant age: It is appointed unto men to die ONCE. After this the judgment
New covenant age: Christ offered Himself ONCE. He appeared unto salvation
KJ
KJ.
If Peter was talking about it being the end of the old covenant/age and the start of the new covenant/age, why was he talking of it as still future? If you get what I mean?
He is talking about an actual end, the Day of the Lord, when the elements will melt in the fervant heat and with a loud noise pass away,
He also said.. “scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”
Dont be a scoffer KJ. Look into Amillenial. Its sort of preterist but in a different way.
Quote (karmarie @ June 07 2010,10:53) The actual end is described in 2nd Peter. That hasnt happened yet.
Hi Karmarie,Thinkers timing (70AD) may be a little off,
but his ideas do have merit; consider the following.2Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and “the works” that are therein shall be burned up.Compare that verse with this verse…
1Cor.3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Also this verse…
Rev.14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write,
Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit,
that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them.Also note that the word translated as 'elements' (in 2Peter 3:10)
should have been translated as “Rudiments” and here's why.Strong's Concordance Greek # 4747
elements: orderly in arrangement (esp in Military rank), principal, Rudiment, element.Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary
Rudiment: 1: a basic principal or element or a fundamental skill
2: something uninformed or undevelopedIt is satan's military command that gets burned up; NOT THE GROUND we walk on!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
