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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2010,06:14) Hi KJ,
THUS is a new one.
Your logic cannot contain what is spiritual.
That's it? No explanation of the Luke 21 text?KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,05:52) ED J, I meant to say that the destruction of Jerusalem was the sign of His near return (Matt. 24; Mk. 13; Lk. 21)
Quote 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Luke 21:20-28The destruction of Jerusalem was the sign of Christ's near return. Jerusalem was destroyed in ad70. Thus Christ returned in ad70.
See the Preterism link below:
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,Tell me why Jesus return couldn't of happened on “Pentecost”, (John 14:23)
with some of the people not being aware of this until 70 AD? (Luke 21:34)
There is nothing to suggest he returned in70 AD, except that some seen him
coming in the clouds. Didn't people see him coming in the clouds of believers
at Pentecost as well (Hebrews 12:1); if you don't believe my analogy say why?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,06:20) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,05:52) ED J, I meant to say that the destruction of Jerusalem was the sign of His near return (Matt. 24; Mk. 13; Lk. 21)
Quote 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Luke 21:20-28The destruction of Jerusalem was the sign of Christ's near return. Jerusalem was destroyed in ad70. Thus Christ returned in ad70.
See the Preterism link below:
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,Tell me why Jesus return couldn't of happened on “Pentecost”, (John 14:23)
with some of the people not being aware of this until 70 AD? (Luke 21:34)
There is nothing to suggest he returned in70 AD, except that some seen him
coming in the clouds. Didn't people see him coming in the clouds of believers
at Pentecost as well (Hebrews 12:1); if you don't believe my analogy say why?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
First, Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were “BEFORE” the great day of the Lord. So Pentecost could not have been the Lord's second coming.Second, Paul said that the Lord HIMSELF would descend from heaven. It was not the Lord “Himself” but the Spirit who came on Pentecost. Christ's actual descent from heaven had not happened when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. Paul clearly anticipated that it was still to come and would come in their life time. He told the saints at Thessalonica that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” Since they had not received rest from their persecutors when Paul wrote Thessalonians, then the Lord had not yet come.
Kangaroo Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,06:38) First, Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were “BEFORE” the great day of the Lord. So Pentecost could not have been the Lord's second coming. Second, Paul said that the Lord HIMSELF would descend from heaven. It was not the Lord “Himself” but the Spirit who came on Pentecost.
3) Christ's actual descent from heaven had not happened when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. Paul clearly anticipated that it was still to come and would come in their life time. He told the saints at Thessalonica that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” Since they had not received rest from their persecutors when Paul wrote Thessalonians, then the Lord had not yet come.Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,1) Why do you say this, where is your biblical backing (what verses do you draw this from)?
2) I don't agree, but I can accept you believe that; OK.
3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
Ed J
Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,06:54) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,06:38) First, Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were “BEFORE” the great day of the Lord. So Pentecost could not have been the Lord's second coming. Second, Paul said that the Lord HIMSELF would descend from heaven. It was not the Lord “Himself” but the Spirit who came on Pentecost.
3) Christ's actual descent from heaven had not happened when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. Paul clearly anticipated that it was still to come and would come in their life time. He told the saints at Thessalonica that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” Since they had not received rest from their persecutors when Paul wrote Thessalonians, then the Lord had not yet come.Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,1) Why do you say this, where is your biblical backing (what verses do you draw this from)?
2) I don't agree, but I can accept you believe that; OK.
3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
Ed J
I gave you my scriptural backing and you say, “Where is your scriptural backing”?So you deny that Paul said that “the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven”?
You deny that it was the Holy Spirit and not Jesus HIMSELF who came on Pentecost?
Yo deny that Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were BEFORE the day of the Lord?
ED J:
Quote 3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
You're applying Romans 14:17 out of context. And even if your application was correct so what? Paul said that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.”So their rest was to come WHEN JESUS WAS TO BE REVEALED even if it was the Holy Spirit who actually gave them rest.
Stick with the bible's own time table. That time table is this; “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” I could also make an argument from Jesus statement, “Come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.”
So you prove nada by saying the Holy Spirit gives rest.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi KJ,
The new earth comes after the general judgement during which time the old earth flees away.[rev20]
Did you notice the earth disappearing and how did you go in the judgement?
Hang on you weren't even born so your last hope is gone.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:12) Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,06:54) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,06:38) First, Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were “BEFORE” the great day of the Lord. So Pentecost could not have been the Lord's second coming. Second, Paul said that the Lord HIMSELF would descend from heaven. It was not the Lord “Himself” but the Spirit who came on Pentecost.
3) Christ's actual descent from heaven had not happened when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. Paul clearly anticipated that it was still to come and would come in their life time. He told the saints at Thessalonica that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” Since they had not received rest from their persecutors when Paul wrote Thessalonians, then the Lord had not yet come.Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,1) Why do you say this, where is your biblical backing (what verses do you draw this from)?
2) I don't agree, but I can accept you believe that; OK.
3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
Ed J
1) I gave you my scriptural backing and you say, “Where is your scriptural backing”?2) So you deny that Paul said that “the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven”?
3) You deny that it was the Holy Spirit and not Jesus HIMSELF who came on Pentecost?
4) Yo deny that Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were BEFORE the day of the Lord?
ED J:
Quote 3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
1) You're applying Romans 14:17 out of context. And even if your application was correct so what? Paul said that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.”2) So their rest was to come WHEN JESUS WAS TO BE REVEALED even if it was the Holy Spirit who actually gave them rest.
3) Stick with the bible's own time table. That time table is this; “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” I could also make an argument from Jesus statement, “Come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.”
4) So you prove nada by saying the Holy Spirit gives rest.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Kang,Try and keep your responses from becoming bloated; OK?
1) I asked you what verses you drew this conclusion from?
2) I said he descended on Pentecost.
3) Both. (John 14:23)
4) I asked you to show me what verses you drew this from?
1) Right; I believe this occurred on “Pentecost”.
2) Read John 14:23.
3) Once again read John 14:23.
4) Why; is he not called “The Comforter”? (John 16:7 / Acts 9:31 / 2Cor.1:3)
Ed J
Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,07:31) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:12) Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,06:54) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,06:38) First, Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were “BEFORE” the great day of the Lord. So Pentecost could not have been the Lord's second coming. Second, Paul said that the Lord HIMSELF would descend from heaven. It was not the Lord “Himself” but the Spirit who came on Pentecost.
3) Christ's actual descent from heaven had not happened when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. Paul clearly anticipated that it was still to come and would come in their life time. He told the saints at Thessalonica that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” Since they had not received rest from their persecutors when Paul wrote Thessalonians, then the Lord had not yet come.Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,1) Why do you say this, where is your biblical backing (what verses do you draw this from)?
2) I don't agree, but I can accept you believe that; OK.
3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
Ed J
1) I gave you my scriptural backing and you say, “Where is your scriptural backing”?2) So you deny that Paul said that “the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven”?
3) You deny that it was the Holy Spirit and not Jesus HIMSELF who came on Pentecost?
4) Yo deny that Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were BEFORE the day of the Lord?
ED J:
Quote 3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
1) You're applying Romans 14:17 out of context. And even if your application was correct so what? Paul said that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.”2) So their rest was to come WHEN JESUS WAS TO BE REVEALED even if it was the Holy Spirit who actually gave them rest.
3) Stick with the bible's own time table. That time table is this; “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” I could also make an argument from Jesus statement, “Come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.”
4) So you prove nada by saying the Holy Spirit gives rest.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Kang,Try and keep your responses from becoming bloated; OK?
1) I asked you what verses you drew this conclusion from?
2) I said he descended on Pentecost.
3) Both. (John 14:23)
4) I asked you to show me what verses you drew this from?
1) Right; I believe this occurred on “Pentecost”.
2) Read John 14:23.
3) Once again read John 14:23.
4) Why; is he not called “The Comforter”? (John 16:7 / Acts 9:31 / 2Cor.1:3)
Ed J
You failed to address all my points. We're done. Whose next?Kangaroo Jack
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2010,07:44) Hi ED,
Jesus is at the right hand of God.
Stephen is a better witness than you..
Matt.7:1Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:52) Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,07:31) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:12) Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,06:54) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,06:38) First, Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were “BEFORE” the great day of the Lord. So Pentecost could not have been the Lord's second coming. Second, Paul said that the Lord HIMSELF would descend from heaven. It was not the Lord “Himself” but the Spirit who came on Pentecost.
3) Christ's actual descent from heaven had not happened when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. Paul clearly anticipated that it was still to come and would come in their life time. He told the saints at Thessalonica that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” Since they had not received rest from their persecutors when Paul wrote Thessalonians, then the Lord had not yet come.Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,1) Why do you say this, where is your biblical backing (what verses do you draw this from)?
2) I don't agree, but I can accept you believe that; OK.
3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
Ed J
1) I gave you my scriptural backing and you say, “Where is your scriptural backing”?2) So you deny that Paul said that “the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven”?
3) You deny that it was the Holy Spirit and not Jesus HIMSELF who came on Pentecost?
4) Yo deny that Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were BEFORE the day of the Lord?
ED J:
Quote 3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
1) You're applying Romans 14:17 out of context. And even if your application was correct so what? Paul said that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.”2) So their rest was to come WHEN JESUS WAS TO BE REVEALED even if it was the Holy Spirit who actually gave them rest.
3) Stick with the bible's own time table. That time table is this; “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” I could also make an argument from Jesus statement, “Come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.”
4) So you prove nada by saying the Holy Spirit gives rest.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Kang,Try and keep your responses from becoming bloated; OK?
1) I asked you what verses you drew this conclusion from?
2) I said he descended on Pentecost.
3) Both. (John 14:23)
4) I asked you to show me what verses you drew this from?
1) Right; I believe this occurred on “Pentecost”.
2) Read John 14:23.
3) Once again read John 14:23.
4) Why; is he not called “The Comforter”? (John 16:7 / Acts 9:31 / 2Cor.1:3)
Ed J
You failed to address all my points. We're done. Whose next?Kangaroo Jack
Hi Kang,Which points did I fail to address?
Ed J
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:52) Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,07:31) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:12) Quote (Ed J @ June 05 2010,06:54) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,06:38) First, Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were “BEFORE” the great day of the Lord. So Pentecost could not have been the Lord's second coming. Second, Paul said that the Lord HIMSELF would descend from heaven. It was not the Lord “Himself” but the Spirit who came on Pentecost.
3) Christ's actual descent from heaven had not happened when Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians. Paul clearly anticipated that it was still to come and would come in their life time. He told the saints at Thessalonica that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” Since they had not received rest from their persecutors when Paul wrote Thessalonians, then the Lord had not yet come.Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,1) Why do you say this, where is your biblical backing (what verses do you draw this from)?
2) I don't agree, but I can accept you believe that; OK.
3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
Ed J
1) I gave you my scriptural backing and you say, “Where is your scriptural backing”?2) So you deny that Paul said that “the Lord HIMSELF shall descend from heaven”?
3) You deny that it was the Holy Spirit and not Jesus HIMSELF who came on Pentecost?
4) Yo deny that Joel and Peter said that the events of Pentecost were BEFORE the day of the Lord?
ED J:
Quote 3) Is it NOT the “HolySpirit” who gives our rest? (Heb.4:8-9 / Romans 14:17)
1) You're applying Romans 14:17 out of context. And even if your application was correct so what? Paul said that they would receive rest from their persecutors “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.”2) So their rest was to come WHEN JESUS WAS TO BE REVEALED even if it was the Holy Spirit who actually gave them rest.
3) Stick with the bible's own time table. That time table is this; “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven.” I could also make an argument from Jesus statement, “Come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.”
4) So you prove nada by saying the Holy Spirit gives rest.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Kang,Try and keep your responses from becoming bloated; OK?
1) I asked you what verses you drew this conclusion from?
2) I said he descended on Pentecost.
3) Both. (John 14:23)
4) I asked you to show me what verses you drew this from?
1) Right; I believe this occurred on “Pentecost”.
2) Read John 14:23.
3) Once again read John 14:23.
4) Why; is he not called “The Comforter”? (John 16:7 / Acts 9:31 / 2Cor.1:3)
Ed J
You failed to address all my points. We're done. Whose next?Kangaroo Jack
Hi Kang,I see this as a consistent pattern, though it doesn't paint a pretty picture for Jack.
I hate to use this analogy, because I really don't feel this way, you seem to be looking for something to attack.
Because I don't give you anything to attack, you seem to flee from me; why is that? (Luke 21:15 / James 4:7)Ed J
Hi KJ,
Looks like the same old earth to me.
It has yet to be destroyed by immense heat.[2peter 3]
Perhaps it has been warmer where you live than over here in NZ?Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:52) Ed J You failed to address all my points. We're done. Whose next?
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,Why can't you just explain to us all here how you come to the 70 AD. date?
Posting the related Scriptures would also add to our understanding.You should give the related bible verses stating why you believe the way you do
instead of your current tactics of trying to prove the other 'wrong', because it is NOT working!For you to assume we should 'blindly' accept what you propose is the core of 'your problem'.
That is why you are getting NOWHERE in your various Forum debates here!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 07 2010,06:40) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:52) Ed J You failed to address all my points. We're done. Whose next?
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Jack,Why can't you just explain to us all here how you come to the 70 AD. date?
Posting the related Scriptures would also add to our understanding.You should give the related bible verses stating why you believe the way you do
instead of your current tactics of trying to prove the other 'wrong', because it is NOT working!For you to assume we should 'blindly' accept what you propose is the core of 'your problem'.
That is why you are getting NOWHERE in your various Forum debates here!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J,I already explained the ad70 date. Jesus said that the destruction of Jerusalem was the sign that His coming was “near” (Matt 24; Mk. 13; Lk. 21).
Jerusalem was destroyed in ad70. Ergo….
Kangaroo Jack
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2010,13:07) Hi KJ,
Looks like the same old earth to me.
It has yet to be destroyed by immense heat.[2peter 3]
Perhaps it has been warmer where you live than over here in NZ?
The old earth (the state of Israel) was destroyed by immense heat when the Romans burned Jerusalem down.KJ
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