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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
The watching angels of Gen6.
They left their estate and took women for wives.
Where does it say that angels took women for wives? It says that the sons of God (the line of Seth) took the daughters of men (Cain).The sons of God (Seth's line) were intermarrying with pagan women (Cain's daughters).
Spirits cannot have sex with humans. Your idea is nasty and grotesque and not even possible.
thinker
hi nick
yes i do because wen Jesus removed the demons out the men and trowed them in the pigs who jump off the clifft,were those thoughts or what NICK
???????hi nick
if man can be corrupte its seems angels can also be corrupt and become fooled to believe in lies,what is homosexuels,it is the same for angels,i believeQuote (thethinker @ Dec. 16 2009,11:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
The watching angels of Gen6.
They left their estate and took women for wives.
Where does it say that angels took women for wives? It says that the sons of God (the line of Seth) took the daughters of men (Cain).The sons of God (Seth's line) were intermarrying with pagan women (Cain's daughters).
Spirits cannot have sex with humans. Your idea is nasty and grotesque and not even possible.
thinker
thinkerWhere does it say the sons of God were the line of Seth, was Seth God?
Where does it say that certain men were not allowed to marry certain woman?
Did not God gave the command for a man to leave his home and get married?
If Seth's sons were sons of God, what were Seth's daughters?
What is not possible, that angel came down and married woman?
That is exactly what happen, as Nick said, they were the watchers, watching the woman on earth until they became so lustful and gave up their first (heaven) estate for them so they could marry them. Just because they are angels, does not mean they are sexless, angels are all males.
Their marriage to woman produced hybrids, giants, it corrupted God's way, and he eventually destroyed them by a flood; they were the reason for the flood.
Read all about it in Gen. 6.Georg
Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 16 2009,08:57) Constitutionalist said: Quote Satan messed with David,
Nope! The Hebrew “sawtawn” means “an accuser.”Chronicles 21:1 “And an accuser stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.”
That “accuser” was Jehovah:
2 Samuel 24:1″And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he (Jehovah) moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.”
It clearly says that the accuser who moved David to number the people was Jehovah. God does not work in league with satan.
Con:
Quote Satan was active with Job,
Nope! It was a human accuser for he came in with the sons of God which were the godly line of Seth.Con:
Quote He is mentioned in Psalm,
Psalm 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
It means “an accuser at his right hand.”Con:
Quote He was active in Zechariah,
It was a human accuser who was present at Joshua's right hand accusing him.The new testament clearly teaches that the angels who rebelled and left heaven were put in chains
Quote 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. and,
Quote For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment Again, the Hebrew “sawtawn” simply means “an accuser” whether it be satan himself or Jehovah or men. Satan and his angels were in chains. So the “accusers” of the old testament had to be either Jehovah or men.
thinker
Hi TT,What happened to your mind, TT?
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God(JEHOVAH):
for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind(the thinking man) is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 16 2009,11:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
The watching angels of Gen6.
They left their estate and took women for wives.
Where does it say that angels took women for wives? It says that the sons of God (the line of Seth) took the daughters of men (Cain).The sons of God (Seth's line) were intermarrying with pagan women (Cain's daughters).
Spirits cannot have sex with humans. Your idea is nasty and grotesque and not even possible.
thinker
Presuming you are right, then who were these Nephilim (a word meaning: “the Fellers” or “those who cause others to fall down.”)The Neph′i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame.–gen 6:4
Is this not saying that “the sons of the true God” (whoever they are) had relations with “the daughters of men” and then bore sons, and that these sons were the “might ones” the “nephilim.”?
And, secondly, if it was simply humans have intercourse with humans, why make any mention of them having relations with “the daughters of men” as though that were something special?
Would it not just say “the duaghters of Cain?”
Quote (banana @ Dec. 16 2009,13:13) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 16 2009,11:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
The watching angels of Gen6.
They left their estate and took women for wives.
Where does it say that angels took women for wives? It says that the sons of God (the line of Seth) took the daughters of men (Cain).The sons of God (Seth's line) were intermarrying with pagan women (Cain's daughters).
Spirits cannot have sex with humans. Your idea is nasty and grotesque and not even possible.
thinker
thinkerWhere does it say the sons of God were the line of Seth, was Seth God?
Where does it say that certain men were not allowed to marry certain woman?
Did not God gave the command for a man to leave his home and get married?
If Seth's sons were sons of God, what were Seth's daughters?
What is not possible, that angel came down and married woman?
That is exactly what happen, as Nick said, they were the watchers, watching the woman on earth until they became so lustful and gave up their first (heaven) estate for them so they could marry them. Just because they are angels, does not mean they are sexless, angels are all males.
Their marriage to woman produced hybrids, giants, it corrupted God's way, and he eventually destroyed them by a flood; they were the reason for the flood.
Read all about it in Gen. 6.Georg
Georg,
Sheer superstition. Grotesque to say the least. The text does not say that it was angels or evil spirits. In fact, after the sons of God had sinned God said, “My Spirit shall not always strive with man.”Why does God punish man for something evil angels did?
The “naphal” offspring were simply evil men. It means “bandits” or “robbers.”
thinker
Hi tt,
Reliant on your understandings bolstered by weak logic and inference does not make your positions strong in any way.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,19:59) Hi TT,
Can you judge the motives of God?
God is just. He would not punish men for something evil angels did. God siad, “My Spirit will not always strive with man.”God is just is He not? Where does it say that angels married women?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 15 2009,16:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
The watching angels of Gen6.
They left their estate and took women for wives.
Where does it say that angels took women for wives? It says that the sons of God (the line of Seth) took the daughters of men (Cain).The sons of God (Seth's line) were intermarrying with pagan women (Cain's daughters).
Spirits cannot have sex with humans. Your idea is nasty and grotesque and not even possible.
thinker
I agree. I never bought the angelic hypothesis either.
First of all, it should be pointed out that angels are not humans, they are quite different creations of G-d as TT stated.
Satan and the other angels are spirit beings, and simply cannot have physical offspring (children).
They do not marry (Matt. 22:28, Mark 12:25), they are incapable of procreation, and so are genderless creatures.
Let's look at this passage in an attempt to shed some light:
Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of G-d saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of G-d came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And G-d saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
So now let's evaluate each verse, and what it is saying-
Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,This verse is straightforward.
The human population on earth began to increase in numbers.
Gen 6:2 That the sons of G-d saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Now this verse is full of meaning.
Some will point to Job 1:6, 2:1 and 38:7 where the same phrase “sons of G-d” is translated sometimes as angels, and conclude that this also refers to angels as well.
The Hebrew words used are – ben: H1121 and 'elohiym: H430:
1121. ben, bane; from H1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of lit. and fig. relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like H1, H251, etc.]) …
So the phrase “Sons of G-d” is a generic term that can mean the subjects or nation of G-d.
It is not a phrase limited to just the angelic host, it has a wider meaning.
The sons of G-d in Gen 6:2, in context, speaks of those men who were (or claimed to be) obedient to the will of G-d, they were the people of G-d, from the lineage of Seth (Gen. 5) as TT also stated.
In opposition to this are the daughters of men (not obedient to G-d), from the lineage of Cain (Gen. 4).
These woman were quite attractive and alluring, and had little trouble enticing the sons of G-d into intimate relations and marriage.
In doing so, the sons of G-d quickly abandoned G-d for these women and their ways.
This is basically a retelling of the fall of Adam and Eve.
Eve listened to the lies of Satan and doubted G-d.
She ate from the forbidden tree and fell from the spiritual nature she previously enjoyed.
That tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:9, 17).
Upon eating from the tree, Eve was aware of what she had done.
She now had the knowledge of evil and she was aware that she had sinned against G-d.
In that knowledge, and having fallen, she then offered the fruit from the tree to Adam.
Adam was not deceived (1 Tim 2:14).
He knew when he saw Eve that she had sinned, because she had lost the spiritual glow that results from being in close spiritual harmony with G-d.
Moses had this same glow when he came down from Sinai (Exo 34:29, 30).
Adam elected to eat the fruit, knowing what he was doing.
His love for Eve (whom he knew had sinned) was greater than his love of G-d.
This is a tactic used time and again by Satan.
The downfall of G-d's people is frequently through the temptations of godless women (See Numbers 25:1-9).
Other examples that come to mind are Samson and Delilah, and David and Bathsheba.
So, now back to Gen 6:2.
The same basic scenario is being repeated after the garden of Eden, only on a larger scale.
There is a wholesale abandonment of God and his righteous ways by the descendents of Seth for women of the lineage of Cain, known to be in rebellion and sin.
This is what G-d calls fornication, not referring only to a sexual sin, but the sin of mixing the righteous with the wicked, truth with evil. (One example of this is the word fornication as attributed to the harlot church in Rev 17:4 and 18:3)
This sin was so prevalent, and so blatant a rejection of G-d that it could not be allowed to continue indefinitely.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
G-d in this verse has just set a period of probation of 120 years on the human race to repent of their wicked ways.
It could not be allowed to continue.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of G-d came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
The word “giants” here in the Hebrew is listed in Strong's as follows-
5303. nephiyl, nef-eel'; or nephil, nef-eel'; from H5307; prop., a feller
- , i.e. a bully or tyrant:–giant.
*Main Entry: 4fell
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English fel, from Middle French, from Old French — more at FELON
1 a : FIERCE, CRUEL, TERRIBLE b : SINISTER, MALEVOLENT c : very destructive : DEADLY — Webster's OnlineSo rather than being perhaps physical giants, in contrast to the meek people of god, these people were rebellious bullies and tyrants, forceful in character and great in their sins.
This same phrase of “giants” is also used to describe the Canaanites following the exodus (Num 13:33).
Again, this probably referred to their godless and lawless character, as much as their physical stature.
Gen 6:5 And G-d saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The fault here is laid squarely on the wickedness of the people themselves.
The first part of this verse is a restatement of the first part of verse 4.
As a result of choosing godless women, men were turned away from G-d as well, and sin and wickedness flourished.
G-d was rejected, and forgotten.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.Sin became so great, that G-d had to bring the flood on them, to cleanse the earth of such great wickedness.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with G-d.Noah was the exception, and he was given the task to build the ark, that would be the refuge from the flood for those obedient to G-d.
So, now back to the popular story about this passage.
Based on a very narrow interpretation of the phrase “sons of G-d” as found here in Genesis, and bolstered by Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; and Psalms 29:1; 82:6, the case is made that this i
s referring to heavenly beings/angels that interbred with women, causing a ghastly mixed breed of creatures that G-d had to destroy.John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of G-d, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of G-d, they are the sons of G-d.
The above verses make clear that phrase “sons of G-d” applies to anyone with faith.
Note how the righteous 144,000 are described?
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto G-d and to the Lamb.
“Not defiled with women” alludes back to Genesis 6 and the sons of G-d and the daughters of men.
The 144,000 walk with G-d just like Noah, and are not defiled by the great whore of Revelation 17, or her harlot daughters, which are symbolic of apostasy.
So the angelic interbreeding story appears to be nothing more than an attempt to put the blame on angels rather than man.
The passage in Genesis 6 speaks only to the wickedness of humanity, and places no blame at all on angels.
Humanity had turned their back on G-d, and did it on such a scale that G-d was moved to destroy them.
Yet, G-d in His mercy, amid all the wickedness, still did not act hastily to exact his judgment.
He gave humanity a period of probation.
A time of 120 years, during which Noah could preach the message of God, of repentance and faith.
Through that period of probation, people heard the word of G-d, that they might be saved.
Eventually Noah and 7 members of his family were saved in the ark.
Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.It should be clear, that we have entered into the days of the Son of Man.
History is repeating itself.
There are “giants” on the Earth again.
The Nephilim, those who follow the way of Cain, and are bold in their rebellion against G-d, again are filling the earth with sin and violence.
Man's cup of iniquity is again reaching the brim, and G-d will not let it continue much longer.
We have no angels to place blame on, and neither did those people in the time of Noah.
Mankind is willfully abandoning G-d for the sake of the sins of iniquity.
Yes, Satan and the other fallen angels can tempt mankind, just as Eve was tempted, but the choice to sin was Eve's and Adam's, and is also ours to make.
The door of probation is soon to close again on this wicked world, just as it did for the people of Noah's generation, but this will be for the final time.
Good job TT!
Quote (david @ Dec. 16 2009,15:45) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 16 2009,11:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
The watching angels of Gen6.
They left their estate and took women for wives.
Where does it say that angels took women for wives? It says that the sons of God (the line of Seth) took the daughters of men (Cain).The sons of God (Seth's line) were intermarrying with pagan women (Cain's daughters).
Spirits cannot have sex with humans. Your idea is nasty and grotesque and not even possible.
thinker
Presuming you are right, then who were these Nephilim (a word meaning: “the Fellers” or “those who cause others to fall down.”)The Neph′i·lim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame.–gen 6:4
Is this not saying that “the sons of the true God” (whoever they are) had relations with “the daughters of men” and then bore sons, and that these sons were the “might ones” the “nephilim.”?
And, secondly, if it was simply humans have intercourse with humans, why make any mention of them having relations with “the daughters of men” as though that were something special?
Would it not just say “the duaghters of Cain?”
David,
You usually have a pretty good head on your shoulders. Where does it say in the text that the sons of God were evil angesl? This idea is erroneously inferred from the kind of offspring which came from the marital union between the sons of God and the daughters of men (Cain).The word “naphal” means “bandits or “robbers.” It is saying that evil men came from the union.
The sons of God were the Sethites. The Messiah was to come through the line of Seth. But they coveted the daughters of Cain and intermarried with them thus corrupting the line. So God destroyed them all and started all over again.
There is no hint at all that the sons of God were fallen angels. How do spirits have sex with women of flesh? It is grotesque and not even possible. It is sheer superstition.
The text CLEARLY says that God's Spirit will not always strive with man for he too is flesh. Therefore, these perpetrators were flesh and not spirit. They were men.
Again, it is erroneously inferred from the offspring (naphal) that the sons of God were evil angels because they were “gaints.” This is unfortunate translation for “naphal” means “robbers.”
And there is no evidence of giant men in the fossil record.
Nick is spouting off saying that I am just engaging in logic and inference. But so do those who infer that the sons of God were fallen angels. They infer it from their erroneous view of the naphal offspring. Yet the text does not say anything about fallen angels does it?
God is just. He would not destroy all mankind for something evil angels did. He destroyed all mankind because the Sethites corrupted the line from which Messiah was to come by intermarrying with pagan women. So He destroyed them all and started the line all over again.
Noah was a Sethite and God called him a “just man.” So Noah and his sons did not participate in the acts of other Sethites.
thinker
Hi TT,
The fossil record proves nothing.
Science is at best a rough measure but evolution theory is bad science with no proofs.You cannot prescribe the justice of God according to your own morals.
He is not made in your image.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 16 2009,20:15) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 15 2009,16:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 16 2009,11:08) Hi TT,
The watching angels of Gen6.
They left their estate and took women for wives.
Where does it say that angels took women for wives? It says that the sons of God (the line of Seth) took the daughters of men (Cain).The sons of God (Seth's line) were intermarrying with pagan women (Cain's daughters).
Spirits cannot have sex with humans. Your idea is nasty and grotesque and not even possible.
thinker
I agree. I never bought the angelic hypothesis either.
Hey Con,
It's nice to be in agreement once in a while.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2009,05:15) Hi TT,
The fossil record proves nothing.
Science is at best a rough measure but evolution theory is bad science with no proofs.You cannot prescribe the justice of God according to your own morals.
He is not made in your image.
The Genesis 6 narrative explicitly says “My Spirit shall not always strive with MAN for He too is FLESH.”Where in scripture do you find evil spirits called “man” or “flesh?”
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 17 2009,05:35) Hi TT,
Demons are never called men or flesh.
Angels can appear as men and frequently do on earth.
Not if they are in chains in the deep darkness (Jude & Peter).So I should read it this way: “My Spirit shall not always strive with angels who appear a men.”
thinker
- , i.e. a bully or tyrant:–giant.
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