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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2009,07:50) Hi TT,
Do you think Jude refers to ALL angels who rebelled or only some at a particular time?
Nck,
Jude is clearly referring to those angels who left heaven. It would not matter if they all left together or if they left at different points in time. ALL those who rebelled and left heaven were put in chains in the darkest abyss whenever it was that they left.They ALL were put in chains in the darkest abyss UNTIL the final trial. They were then loosed. How else could they have possessed people and did warfare with the first generation of Christians?
Paul assured the saints at Rome that satan would be crushed under THEIR feet “shortly.” WJ says that “shortly” does not mean “shortly.” He says that it may mean a thousand years. But Paul said that satan would be crushed under “THEIR” feet. Not under OUR feet but under THEIR feet.
Therefore, “shortly” means “shortly.”
thinker
Hi TT,
The angels have yet to be thrown out of heaven.This was that bad bunch of watchers that brought corruption to mankind IMO[Gen6]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2009,09:39) Hi TT,
The angels have yet to be thrown out of heaven.This was that bad bunch of watchers that brought corruption to mankind IMO[Gen6]
Where do you get this stuff? Jude says that the angels who left their first habitation (heaven) were put in chains until the great trial (when they were loosed). How can you say that they are yet to be thrown out of heaven?And how could satan be crushed under the feet of the first generation of Christians if He was still in heaven? You have a a bizarre twist on things Nicky.
Btw, Genesis 6 was about the rebellion of the sons of God which were the godly line of Seth. They corrupted themselves by intermarrying with the daughters of Cain. This corrupted the line which through Christ was supposed to come. So God brought the flood to start all over again. Demons didn't have anything to do with the sons of God.
Superstitious Christians believe that the sons of God were demons who had sex with humans. Weird !
thinker
Quote (katjo @ Nov. 07 2009,14:19) The rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected and, along with believers who are still living, will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The second coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His millennial kingdom. The second coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16. The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:
1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).
2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).
4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).
5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).
Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?
1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).
2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).
3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).
The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire. Thinker, JESUS HAS NOT RE-TURNED!! thats what we are all waiting for.!!
Hi Katjo,The rapture is satan's doctrine; why do you follow a lie?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 09 2009,20:20) Hi TT,
You add your implications every sentence.
Nick,
You are the one here saying that there are angels yet to be thrown out of heaven. Give chapter and verse please.Even if true it wouldn't change the fact that satan was among the first to be thrown out and to be put in “everlasting” chains until the great trial. I marvel that you think that angels “yet to be thrown out of heaven” helps the futurist case?
thinker
hi nick
his christ did not say to is apostels “now is the jugement because the accuser is trowe down to earth
and this is why we have so mush trouble on earth ,because he (the devil)as a short time left
??Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2009,03:30) hi nick
his christ did not say to is apostels “now is the jugement because the accuser is trowe down to earth
and this is why we have so mush trouble on earth ,because he (the devil)as a short time left??
Satan was crushed under the feet of the first generation Christians.“And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly” (Rom. 16:20)
Note that satan was to be crushed under THEIR feet. This would mean that satan is now in the lake of fire. Christians who say that satan is here today are superstitious.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,04:44) Hi TT,
Again implication is your only foundation.
So weak.
Proposition is my foundation. Paul said that satan would be crushed under THEIR feet. What is it about Paul's statement that you don't understand? He said it would happen SHORTLY.thinker
Hi TT,
Yes you propose many things but rarely find support as no proof can be found for bare opinion.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,05:09) Hi TT,
Yes you propose many things but rarely find support as no proof can be found for bare opinion.
For instance…thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,05:16) Hi TT,
You imagine the future has happened.
That is quite a delusion.
What! I do not imagine the future has happened
You deny the first generations Christians of their blessed hope. You read yourself into the promises God made to them. If God failed to keep His promises to them then no saints after them have a future.
thinker
Hi TT,
Their hope remains.
They will be raised in the first resurrection.
Many were deluded by alarmists in those times also.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2009,05:27) Hi TT,
Their hope remains.
They will be raised in the first resurrection.
Many were deluded by alarmists in those times also.
They realized their hope.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 28 2009,01:14) Georg said: Quote thinker Have you ever considered to become a science fiction writer?
Georg
Georg,
I noticed that you did not comment on Isaiah's statement that physical death and sin continues in the new earth. It says also that sinners are there (65:20). Neither did you comment on John's vision which says that the Spirit and the Bride invite people to drink of the waters of salvation (22:17).Because of the books on prophecy you read you have a false expectation as the Jews did in Jesus' day. How about a real reply?
There will NEVER be an earth where there is no sin and death. This was promised us only in heaven. It is the contemporary books on prophecy that contain all the “fiction.”
thinker
Hi Thinker,How can we be in the New Earth if the rudiments have not been burned up yet?
2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,
and the elements(rudiments) shall melt with fervent heat?You do know what the rudiments are, don't you?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 10 2009,14:57) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 28 2009,01:14) Georg said: Quote thinker Have you ever considered to become a science fiction writer?
Georg
Georg,
I noticed that you did not comment on Isaiah's statement that physical death and sin continues in the new earth. It says also that sinners are there (65:20). Neither did you comment on John's vision which says that the Spirit and the Bride invite people to drink of the waters of salvation (22:17).Because of the books on prophecy you read you have a false expectation as the Jews did in Jesus' day. How about a real reply?
There will NEVER be an earth where there is no sin and death. This was promised us only in heaven. It is the contemporary books on prophecy that contain all the “fiction.”
thinker
Hi Thinker,How can we be in the New Earth if the rudiments have not been burned up yet?
2Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,
and the elements(rudiments) shall melt with fervent heat?You do know what the rudiments are, don't you?
thinkerI must have mist that, well better late then never.
Is. 65:20 is speaking of the millennium, it speaks of the resurrection of the dead, and the new born.
A child, weather resurrected or born, will live to be at least a hundred years; if at a hundred it should die, it is because it did not listen to Jesus,Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
But even as an 100 year old, you are considered just a child.
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Job 33:25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:
The same goes for an old man, after his resurrection he too will have a hundred years.
Any one who dies during the millennium is accursed, because this death is the second death.
And yes, you are right, there is the potential of sin, all the way through the millennium, that is why God has designed it for man to be tested one last time, after the millennium when Satan will be loosed, and scriptures tell us, there will be many millions that follow Satan, they all will be destroyed instantly.
The last to be destroyed will be Satan, after that there will be no more sin, ever.
Rev. 22:17, the spirit (God's Holy spirit) of the bride (the saints of the first resurrection) say, come, let him that is athirst (for the truth) come, let him take of the water (truth) of life freely.
Remember when Jesus said this?Jhn 7:37 ¶ In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Georg
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