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Quote (Irene @ July 03 2008,02:17) Hello M81, and welcome I can see you are a thinking man, that is always good. We should never except scripture for what it appears to say without researching it further. God has hidden his truth in his word all through the bible, much in symbolism and metaphors.
We will not come to understand his word without the help of the Holy Spirit, and we are instructed in several scriptures to do just that.Jam. 1:5 “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
Luke 11:13 “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”I have done a study on that subject and will share it with you. Let it be food for thought.
The Earth
Gen. 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
Stop right there, and look at this verse for a moment, think about what it is saying. This very first verse of the bible is stating a fact; it is not describing the account of that creation. The fact is that God did create heaven and earth, what is not a fact is, that it happened only 6000 years ago. Reading the very next verse should make us wonder.
v. 2 “And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep…”
Why would God create the earth in such a chaotic state, knowing he was about to create plants, trees, animals and man on it? Also, if this was what the earth looked like when God created it, would the angels really have shouted for joy?
Job 38:4 “Where wast thou when I laid the foundation of the earth?…”
v. 7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”It would also give us reason to wonder what some of the other scriptures mean, for instant, speaking of Lucifer, who became Satan.
Is. 14:13 “For thou hast said in thy heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.”
Why would God create the earth in such a chaotic state, knowing he was about to create plants, trees, animals and man on it? Also, if this was what the earth looked like when God created it, would the angels really have shouted for joyv. 12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nation!”
On what ground did he fall back down? What did Jesus mean when he said?
Luke 10:18 “And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”
When did Jesus see Satan fall from heaven? Satan is not his real name, it is what he became, an adversary, his name was Lucifer, meaning, bringer of light, truth. He was perfect in every way, when God created him.
Ez. 28:13 “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering…”
v. 14 “Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set the so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.”
v. 15 “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created…”And yet, the bible also teaches that Satan was a murderer from the beginning.
John 8:44 “Ye are of you father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning…”
Who is wrong, Ezekiel or John? Neither read the rest of,
Ez. 28:15 “…till iniquity was found in thee.”
Lucifer was created perfect until something happened; he became jealous of God, that was the beginning of him becoming Satan. God created a beautiful earth until something happened and it became void and empty. We should learn from this that beginning is not what we have thought of it to say. Was not Satan on this earth when God created man? What about scientific facts? Science may not believe in creation, but should we then return the favor and say, anything you teach we wont believe either? If the earth was only 6000 years old, how could you possibly explain the geography or geology of this planet? Science may be wrong in believing in evolution, but through science we all have learned a great deal.
We have learned that the earth is not flat.
We have learned that the sun does not revolve around the earth.
We have learned that the earth crust moves on tectonic plates, that where they collide they form huge mountain ranges over millions of years. We have found huge deposits of coal, gas and oil, deep under ground and under the sea; are we to assume that God put them there because he knew we would need them for our cars and airplanes, so we can pollute the environment? What are coal, gas and oil? How are they formed? They are our resources of fuel and energy. They are formed from decaying organic matter over 100s of millions of years, under enormous pressure and heat. To ignore these truths, is no different than for science to ignore God’s truth.
So then, what did happen in Gen. 1:1? The bible does in fact tells us.Gen. 1:2 “…And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
This brings to mind a scripture that practically explains what happened.
Ps. 104:30 “Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.”
Renewing the face of the earth is what I believe God did in Genesis. And hear are more reasons why I believe that. When God created grass, herbs and fruit trees on the third day, he created them after their kind. On the fifth day he created creatures that move in the waters, and winged fowl, after their kind. And finally on the sixth day, the earth brought forth all the living things, creeping things, cattle, and beasts, all after his kind. What does, after their kind, mean? It is really very simple to understand, when you say after, there had to be something before. Man was created in the image of God, not after his kind, his kind had not existed before. Also, after their kind does not mean the same size or shape, it refers to that particular group, whether they be fish, or birds, or beats, etc. Fossils and skeletons are undeniable proof that God had created animals much larger then, as now. Why did God create all those animals so big? Well, I think one reason could be, there were no humans around that would feel threatened by them. How then did all life become extinct, and the earth void and empty? Let me start from the beginning, and this is what I believe has happened.
God did in fact create a beautiful earth, with all kinds of vegetation, trees and animals on it, which did caused the angels to shout for joy, Job 38:4+7. Angels were created to live forever, not being dependent on food or water or air. God also gave them a free will to make choices. To see if the angels were loyal and obedient to him, he had to test them, and this earth became the proving ground. Lucifer, God’s masterpiece of creation was put in charge. There are no specifics given in the bible, as to what his duties were, but his name, Lucifer, is somewhat revealing, “bringer of light”. Light is symbolic for truth; Jesus said he was the light of the world, John 8:12. Jesus brought us the light that leads to everlasting life, Lucifer was to do the same to the angels, teach them God’s way. While hear on earth, administering his responsibilities, something happened to him, he became jealous of God, he felt he should be worshiped. Over time, the bible does n
ot say how long, he convinced himself that he could overthrow God. He revealed his plan to the angels, and convinced a third of them to follow him in his rebellion.Rev. 12:4 “And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth…”
Again, the bible does not say how long it took Satan to convince the angels to follow him, but then, God had not created time yet. Satan’s rebellion failed, no surprise. It was this rebellion that caused the decay and destruction of this Planet. God would not allow Satan and his demons to exist on a beautiful planet. This earth had become his domain, his kingdom. God withdrew his Spirit that upholds all things, from this earth.
Heb. 1:3 “Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power…”
When God created Adam and Eve, he put them in a beautiful garden; it became their testing ground, when they rebelled, they were thrown out of that garden. This entire period of the Gospel has been a testing period for the saints, to see who endures to the end, and is worthy to rule with Christ for a thousand years. At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be loosed for a little while to give mankind a final test, all those who fail will be destroyed forever, all those who pass will live forever.
Could a meteor or asteroid have hid the earth and helped in the destruction? Possibly, it really doesn’t matter. God would allow this planet to shape itself into what he wanted for us, and that may very well have taken billions of years. He then renewed the face of the earth, and created animals more our size. This is what I believe Gen. 1:1 teaches.
You may want to think about this for a while, but it makes perfect sense to me.IM4Truth
Hi Im4,
“Why would God create the earth in such a chaotic state, knowing he was about to create plants, trees, animals and man on it? Also, if this was what the earth looked like when God created it, would the angels really have shouted for joy “Who knows?
“On what ground did he fall back down? What did Jesus mean when he said? “
Earth.
But is Satan identified in scripture as LUCIFER or do we assume this?“Was not Satan on this earth when God created man? “
Yes- the serpent was his vessel.Yep, just what I had expected from you ,Nick.
First you make no sense, then you try to bury the post.
IM4Truth
Hi,
He asks me to give my thoughts on specific questions he posted and I did but still he is unhappy?
Why?Quote (Irene @ July 08 2008,02:37) Nick, you just made me realise again, why I stopped posting in the first place. IM4Truth
Greetings IM4……”In the beginning there was God”and as we read on in Gen.the account of the creation starts with the creation of the heavens and the earth “And it was Good”the term “It was Good'is mentioned at the end of each of his creations on its respective day….This term suggests perfection with respect to God….If we can agree on this point,than the destruction had to happen before,as a result of the rebellious activity of Lucifer,who was charged with the authority to rule the universe….In the beginning the earth was Toho/Boho, barren and dark….this would suggest a second creation..what do you think…Honestly I think it is literal, but yes, time is just a wimpy natural law, he can void it any time, God can make the world in 2 billion years or 7 days.
Yes I believe in took six days, but six days of God's time.
I prayed if God would answer, how it was he could hear me with so many billions all calling his name at same time. The answer I think applies to this question as to how long creation took.
His Reply was simple but very enlighting
“A thousand years may be as a second or a second may be as a thousand years”
Simple but answers ALL
Hi brother Kimba08,
In God's sight a thousand years is like one day and one day is like thousand years.Hi GM:
The Quote was not a day but “a second could be a thousand years”!!! Multiple it out 60 sec. X 60 min X 24 hours X 1000years/sec = 86,400,000 years per day! Although this may not equate exactly as Early Scientific evidence states ie carbon dating etc. But I think this an example only of what god's time is compared to ours.
Now I'm going to go way out on Limb and see if it breaks. Hopefully God or Some kind angels will catch me if I Fall!
Consider 2 universes side by side and Parallel to each other in space/time. One the Physical universe and the Other the Spiritual Universe. If you ask where is Heaven it is in fact right beside you in Spiritual Universe and remains so every-where on this Earth or in this Universe. Getting a Little String theoritical here Maybe, I don't know the Mechanics or Mathmatical Equations to prove this. Take this as a Theorectical Possiblity. Now Time is constant on our side but is non-existant in the Spirit side. Wow!, I told you out on a limb! Lets Go for Broke? With no time, no air there is no decay and no death. Eternal Life. Now as to god's time he just pooks his head out any time he wants into our Universe and He is Always the Same God as scriptures state same Today as yesterday and tomorrow. He Creates this or that and takes as long as it takes and returns and that is a day to God. Comes back when things are ready for next Phase and creates whats next in his plan and this is second of God's days. Obiviously each day can't be equal in length but God has control over time Not time has Control over God. This is the KEY! It's Gods time not what we think a day is in Seconds or minutes? But just a continous time of God's Creating things, That is a God's Day. Hope this Works for you? As I said Can be hard to follow. Still some things left unanswered but this part covers the Creation in 6 dAys like topic requested.
Is there a Daily Prize for Most original Insanity Posted?
It says very clearly when the 10 commandments were given, when they came to the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy:
“…for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and rested on the seventh day.”
So, we are to work six 24-hour days, and rest on the seventh 24-hour day.
This is very clear, and you can take it at face-value.
I've had the same questions, myself.What is interesting was the discovery of a tree which ran entirely through the so-called “era”s of the rock layers. A 65 million+-year-old tree?
or here:
CEM Research and Polystrate Fossils
“CEM Research and Polystrate Fossils” Abstract:
Since the discovery and excavation of the Acrocanthosaurus dinosaur along the banks of the Paluxy River in 1984, the Creation Evidence Museum has been involved in researching and excavating polystrate fossils. Recently Professor Ian Juby molded the splendid ten-foot Lepidophloios polystrate near Cookville, Tennessee, then replicated the phenomenon as a pillar display at CEM. Such examples demonstrate rapid and catastrophic sedimentary burial, as opposed to slow sedimentary accumulation as envisioned by the evolutionary community.Introduction:
“Polystrate” means “many layers.” The term refers to fossils that extend through two or more (often 8 to 10) layers of sedimentary rock. In The Collapse of Evolution, author Scott Huse wrote: “Polystrate trees are fossil trees that extend through several layers of strata, often twenty feet or more in length. There is no doubt that this type of fossil was formed relatively quickly; otherwise it would have decomposed while waiting for strata to slowly accumulate around it.” [1]I. Examples of Polystrate Tree Formations…
In The Creation-Evolution Controversy author R.L. Wysong wrote about an unusual polystrate tree, “This polystrate tree penetrates a visible distance of ten feet through volcanic sandstone of the Clarno formation in Oregon. Potassium-Argon dating of the nearby John Day formation suggest that 1,000 feet of rock was deposited over a period of about seven million years, or, in other words, at the rate of the thickness of this page annually! However, catastrophic burial must have formed the rock and caused the fossilization, otherwise, the tree would have rotted and collapsed.”[2]Evolutionist William Fritz documented that “Deposits of recent mud flows on Mount St. Helens demonstrate conclusively that stumps can be transported and deposited upright. These observations support that some vertical trees in the Yellowstone “fossil forests” were transported in a geologic situation directly comparable to that of Mount St. Helens.”[3]
II. CEM and Polystrate Research…
In July of 1984 the museum Director discovered the 40-foot long Acrocanthosaurus dinosaur and began its excavation on private property along the banks of the Paluxy River. Visitors came from as far away as China to observe the excavation. Most of the fossil bones and claws were deposited in the limestone matrix of the primary rock layer. However, many of the bones extended into the several inches of clay marl, and some of the claws and small bones actually extended into the next rock layer above.By the late 1980’s our excavations had exposed the compressed fossil of a giant Lepidodendron club moss on private property. The compressed width of the coalified fossil measured 48 inches, and the root system extended 22 feet. Eight inches of the fossil were impressed into the base layer, most of the fossil continued up through the seven inches of clay marl, and four inches of the fossil extended into the rock layer above.
By 1995 our excavation team began excavating in Colorado where the museum Director discovered a dinosaur fossil bed on private property. The landowners gave to CEM a 30-foot Aracaria Pine at the fossil site. The normally “round” pine tree was compressed to an “oval” shape against the structure of its own form. Continuing excavations demonstrated that the numerous layers above the fossil compressed the horizontal tree while it was still pliable.
III. Explanation…
The Acrocanthosaurus dinosaur fossil and the Lepidodendron plant fossil are polystrates in the Austin Chalk/Glen Rose Cretaceous sedimentary limestone formation that literally extends to every continent on Earth. This observation is documented in The Nature of the Stratagraphic Record and The New Catastrophism by evolutionist Derick Ager.[4]The Morrison Formation in which the Colorado pine tree fossil (now on display at the Creation Evidence Museum) extends through Wyoming, Colorado, Montana, Saskatchewan, Alberta, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, and Idaho (600,000 sq. miles).[5]
The only plausible explanation for such “mud and water” deposition of sediment over vast areas of the globe is a world-wide flood described in the Biblical record. Polystrate fossils attest to this phenomenon, and our new polystrate pillar display demonstrates this dramatically.
——————————————————————————–
[1] Huse, Scott M., The Collapse of Evolution, (Grand Rapids, MI; Baker, 1997), p. 96
[2] Wysong, R.L., The Creation-Evolution Controversy, (East Lansing, MI, Intervarsity Press, 1976), p. 366
[3] Fritz, William J., “Stumps Transported and Deposited Upright by Mount St. Helens Mud Flows,” Geology, 8[12]: 586-588
[4] Ager, D. The New Catastrophism (Cambridge University Press), 1993
[5] Morrison Formation, http://www.dinosaurs.com/de_4/5ca00c3.htm
Quote (Kimba08 @ July 29 2008,01:26) Hi GM: The Quote was not a day but “a second could be a thousand years”!!! Multiple it out 60 sec. X 60 min X 24 hours X 1000years/sec = 86,400,000 years per day! Although this may not equate exactly as Early Scientific evidence states ie carbon dating etc. But I think this an example only of what god's time is compared to ours.
Now I'm going to go way out on Limb and see if it breaks. Hopefully God or Some kind angels will catch me if I Fall!
Consider 2 universes side by side and Parallel to each other in space/time. One the Physical universe and the Other the Spiritual Universe. If you ask where is Heaven it is in fact right beside you in Spiritual Universe and remains so every-where on this Earth or in this Universe. Getting a Little String theoritical here Maybe, I don't know the Mechanics or Mathmatical Equations to prove this. Take this as a Theorectical Possiblity. Now Time is constant on our side but is non-existant in the Spirit side. Wow!, I told you out on a limb! Lets Go for Broke? With no time, no air there is no decay and no death. Eternal Life. Now as to god's time he just pooks his head out any time he wants into our Universe and He is Always the Same God as scriptures state same Today as yesterday and tomorrow. He Creates this or that and takes as long as it takes and returns and that is a day to God. Comes back when things are ready for next Phase and creates whats next in his plan and this is second of God's days. Obiviously each day can't be equal in length but God has control over time Not time has Control over God. This is the KEY! It's Gods time not what we think a day is in Seconds or minutes? But just a continous time of God's Creating things, That is a God's Day. Hope this Works for you? As I said Can be hard to follow. Still some things left unanswered but this part covers the Creation in 6 dAys like topic requested.
Is there a Daily Prize for Most original Insanity Posted?
LOLYes Hanoch 6 days we work and one day rest, in Similtude of god's Creation. But God's Day is not 24 hours.
2 Pet. 3: 8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.Here is another Scripture quote From Nick on Page 1 of this thread for comparison and double proofs
Ps90
4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Again God's Day is not a 24 hour Day but compared to A thousand years. Here again this is not an exact Literal statement but states “AS” which imples approximation and not exactness. 2nd Peter is more explicit in that PS90 is uni-directional in time comparing a Day to A Thousnad years but 2peter 3:8 shows Gods bi-directional control over time.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand ayears, and a thousand years as one day.
I think this clearly states God determines how much time passes wheither extremely large amounts or extrememly small.
Stated again : God has control of Time not time has control over GOD
Conclusion the first creations of Universe and Planents Most Probalby took Several Billion years as Scientists state. Let's face it it takes a while for a Planent to Cool down from a molten state. This not to set the Arguemnt as to if the Earth was ever Molten but just that it's creation could of been in several Billion years and still be just a day in Gods Sight …KAB28
I do not think God made the Bible to be confusing, but very easily understood:
Gen 1:3
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.Gen 1:6
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.Gen 1:13
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.Gen 1:19
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.Gen 1:23
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.Gen 1:31
And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.Gen 2:1-4
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work.
And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
—-
Ex 20:9 “Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:”
Ex 20:11 “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”Simple and straightforward. God bless!
I aggree there was Six days but How could God Explain a Billion years to a Dessert Nomad? God states simplicy to Men that they might understand.
Psalm 119:130
130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
God could of explained in much more accurate ways of HIS True Creation Time but kept it simiple so MAN could understand. He did not mean it take it literal. And to BELIEVE it took as long as science says does not invalidate the Bible in any way or make one a BAD Christian, Non-beleiver or Servant of Satan etc. But just that God could not explain E=MC squared to a shepherd keeper and ALL of simple men to follow him. He gave Man a day and a morning to Relate to his understanding at time, it has been just last 100 years or so that man understood Concepts like Billions of years and Millions of Light years in distances …KAB29
What's up guys? How ya'll doin?
Right there is where you went wrong:
“I agree there was six days in creation — BUT”
Right there, where you said “but” is where you went wrong. In Hebrew, “but” means “everything I that was said up to this point: zero it out; it means nothing.” That is where you commence with YOUR IDEA, which is NOT GOD'S “IDEA”. You twist and contort something around; just leave it alone!
If man today can understand a billion, nomads can understand a billion, too.
“The hidden things belong to the Lord.”
God only wants us to know that which is profitable for us; you remember when Adam had a choice between the tree of life (that which is profitable) and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (what is not profitable), right?
Some things just ARE; you can trust them and use them to build upon as a foundation; you don't have to delve into them: there's nothing to delve into. God doesn't need you to do any work here in this area; just let it alone.
I think this is not even an edifying conversation (twisting the Word around to find a sufficient answer ), it is what it is, so… leave it be – I say… but then again, that's just me.
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