Was the christ really god?

[Texas]

Was the Christ really God!

Now we know that Paul said “All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching for reproving for setting things straight, for disiplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent completely equipped for every good work.” [2Timothy 3:16,17]

Further to that Peter said: “For you know this first, that no prophecy of scripture springs from any private interpretation, For prophecy was at no time brought by mans will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by Holy Spirit.” [1 Peter 1: 20,21]

Now we know what Paul said about God not lying:
… “upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God who cannot lie promised before times long lasting.” [Titus 1:2]

… :in order that through two unchangable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we who have fled to the refuge may have strong encouragement to lay hold on the hope set before us.” [Hebrews 6:18]

Now, we know that any Bible subject that deals with the foregoing in mind has to be the truth, especially if Pauls counsel at 2 Corinthians 13:1 is strictly adhered to. To supply the custumary two or three witnesses that establish what is said as the truth. “At the mouth of two or of three witnesses every matter must be established.”

My subject now is: Was Christ really God? The following cited scriptures will show that, that is an impossible idea for it does not line up with the truth of the Bible. In fact the Bible contradicts that idea; as the following scriptures will show.

… ” and go on walking in love just as the Christ also loved you and delivered himself up for you as an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling odor.” [Ephesians 5:1,2]

Without any explanation that scripture says it all, for God would not offer himself in sacrifice to God. That is, to say the least a very silly idea. Anyway it says Christ offered himself it doesn't say God offered himself, now does it?

Now on to the next scripture:

“You will indeed drink my cup,but this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.” [Matthew 20: 20-23]

Now was Jesus to be God he could have given those positions to the sons of Zebedee. He clearly said, they were not his to give. Showing again he was not God!

“Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my Brothers and say to them. I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” [John 20:17]

Now we could not get any clearer a scripture than that, could we? Jesus said his Father was his God. on to the next scripture:

“For Christ entered, not into a Holy place made with hands which is a copy of the reality, but into Heaven itself to appear before the person of God for us.” [Hebrews 9:24]

Now, reasonably how could Jesus have been the person of God and, at the same time appear before the person of God? that makes no sense at all now does it? That thought really warps and twists the truth of the Bible now doesn'it?

“He who does not love me does not observe my words; and the word that you are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me.” [John 14:24]

Now, was Jesus to be God the word would have been his, but it wasn't; showing again he was not God.

Jesus in turn answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to Him that sent me.” [John 7:16]

Now that scripture needs no explanation for it is very clear what is meant.

“I have given your word to them but the World has hated them, because they are no part of the World just as I am no part of the World.” [John 17:14] Once again was Jesus to be God the word would have been his, but it wasn't, showing again he was not God.

… ” because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himsef who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.” Therefore just as the Father has told me [them] so I speak [them]' [John 12:49,50] Here is another scripture that speaks for itself.

… “I do nothing of my own initiative but just as the Father taught me I speak these things.” Would Jesus need to be taught was he to be God? Absolutely not!

“Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.” [Mark 13:32]Jesus did not know the day and hour. Was he to be God he would have known that!
“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” [[Matthew 24: 36]

Now there are more than the customary two or three witnesses offered here and all these witnesses were inspired of God and wrote or spoke under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and God, speaking through these witnesses could not lie. So this article is soldly based on the truth of the Bible, and cannot be argued. Jesus was definitely not God. He was the Son of God, as the Bible says in many places. Unless, of course, someone would wish to call God a Liar, and I don't believe anyone would wish to do that. Or would they? Texas!

[Cindy]

Texas I* just finished a post in Proverb 16:4 in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine. John 1:1-14 explains it. God is a title and Jesus did exist before He became Jesus and was the Word God. You really don't know that Jesus emptied Himself of the deity of God and became man?
In John 17:5 We read that Jesus said: ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” That verse also shows the preexisting of Jesus.
You see we can always proven wrong and I just did.
Peace and Love Irene

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ April 24 2009,04:45)

Texas I* just finished a post in Proverb 16:4 in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine. John 1:1-14 explains it.  God is a title and Jesus did exist before He became Jesus and was the Word God. You really don't know that Jesus emptied Himself of the deity of God and became man? In John 17:5 We read that Jesus said: ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” That verse also shows the preexisting of Jesus. You see we can always proven wrong and I just did. Peace and Love Irene

Cindy!
No! You didn't prove me wrong! What you did, probably without realising it, is prove me right. The reason for that is you used that scripture at John 17:5 actually that was a big mistake, and its a mistake because of what King Solomon said at 2 Chronicles 6:14. Now you acknowledge that the Christ was with his Father right from the founding of the world. With that in mind, look at what King Solomon stated in that verse of scripture: “O Jehovah, the God of Israel, there is no God like you, IN HEAVEN or on the earth.” Now you freely admit that Jesus was in heaven with his Father from the beginning, so, as Solomon stated if there is no God in heaven like Jehovah then the Christ could never be referred to as equal to Jehovah as the Trinitarians will claim! Thanks for proving me right Cindy! {Georg} Texas

[Texas]

Quote (Cindy @ April 24 2009,04:45)

Texas I* just finished a post in Proverb 16:4 in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine. John 1:1-14 explains it.  God is a title and Jesus did exist before He became Jesus and was the Word God. You really don't know that Jesus emptied Himself of the deity of God and became man? In John 17:5 We read that Jesus said: ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” That verse also shows the preexisting of Jesus. You see we can always proven wrong and I just did. Peace and Love Irene

Cindy {georg}

In my last reply to you, you made mention of the scripture at Philippians 2:5-11, didn't you? Now, if you read those verses OUT OF CONTEXT you could probably make it look like Jehovah 'emptied himself, and took a slaves form' however if you read it IN CONTEXT you cannot do that, because all of those verses tied together, as they were meant to be, tell us that it was Jesus who 'emptied himself and took a slaves form' not Jehovah! Just thought that I would throw that in for good measure! Texas

[Cindy]

Quote (Texas @ April 24 2009,05:14)

Quote (Cindy @ April 24 2009,04:45) Texas I* just finished a post in Proverb 16:4 in Scripture and Biblical Doctrine. John 1:1-14 explains it.  God is a title and Jesus did exist before He became Jesus and was the Word God. You really don't know that Jesus emptied Himself of the deity of God and became man? In John 17:5 We read that Jesus said: ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” That verse also shows the preexisting of Jesus. You see we can always proven wrong and I just did. Peace and Love Irene Cindy! No!  You didn't prove me wrong! What you did, probably without realising it, is prove me right. The reason for that is you used that scripture at John 17:5 actually that was a big mistake, and its a mistake because of what King Solomon said at 2 Chronicles 6:14. Now you acknowledge that the Christ was with his Father right from the founding of the world. With that in mind, look at what King Solomon stated in that verse of scripture: “O Jehovah, the God of Israel, there is no God like you, IN HEAVEN or on the earth.” Now you freely admit that Jesus was in heaven with his Father from  the beginning, so, as Solomon stated if there is no God in heaven like Jehovah then the Christ could never be referred to as equal to Jehovah as the Trinitarians will claim! Thanks for proving me right Cindy! {Georg} Texas

Texas So what you are implying is that Jesus is a liar? No mistake like you claim. Because it is Jesus saying to the Father in John 17:5 Etc. And I never said that Jesus is equal with the Father. He is not. He is the Son of God and in His own words He says that the Father is greater then I.
Ephisians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all and through all, and in us all. But the Son of God did exsist before becoming in the flesh. So I woukd be careful to say something about Scripture.
And also I signed my name it is Irene. Cindy is our users name. My Husbands name is Georg without the e.I came out of the Trinitarian Church and do not belief in it.
Again be careful what you are implying. It is almost rude of you, I have never come acrioss somebody like you before, who thinks He knows it all. Are you Human?

Peace and Love Irene

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