Was christ born on december 25

[Istari]

Kathi,

as much i might like to agree – but I don't know how you spent your christmas this year…Do you have children…? Christmas now is a day of pure SELF Indulgence and gluttony and Commercialism.

In the UK we had a set of short serial about the “NATIVITY” is was so bland I sincerely hope they never show it again.

The birth of Christ was so dull I was looking for another two days worth of maybe Herod trying to kill the babies but – of course, they can't show that because it would be POLITICALLY INCORRECT.

The series ended with the boring …wise men rather blasely laying their gifts before baby Jesus with 'Joseph' off in the background looking completely lost and someone called JUDAS (not sure who he was really) hanging around eyeing the Gold and Myrrhh (I think!)
And that was Christmas in the UK. The British are afraid of the Muslims and won't do anything that offends them – like showing a Christian program or debate – but they happily put on programme about Mohammed and the Koran and include these in drama but never include Christianity in drama (Grace round the table never uses the word GOD, singing in a church is careful not to say Jesus and God too much and tails off really quickly – the people dying to get out and down the local pub for a drink where you can hear to the latest “Grace Jones” or “Snoop Dog” record playing in full in the background…

[shimmer]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,13:43)

Shimmer, you appear to be steering a heavenly course. Are your posts always so Spiritual?

Thankyou Istari.

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 03 2011,15:02)

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 02 2011,18:54) Hi Shimmer and Kathi, Thanks for the welcome. Yes, you are right. I guess I was thinking of a little too selfishly of my own experiences. Sorry, I have no idea what Purim is. But, Kathi, yes, I have looked into this issue deeply. I'm glad i can get the chance to air my thoughts – and be corrected as you just did – on the side issues. The main issue is – We DON'T KNOW when Jesus was conceived – and NEITHER DOES IT MATTER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. – should I add:”I.M.H.O”? This type of discussion draws energy away from True Spiritual matters – What of it if he was 'conceived' on boxing day, Christmas day – Pedantically, how could he be conceived on christmas day when there was no such day as christmas day before he was 'born' : Further, how could he have been conceived on Christmas day if he was also BORN on christmas day – even a year later? Did Mary carry him for twelve Months – that would be neat (Numbers are significant in the scriptures – On Month for each of the tribes of Israel, one month for each of the disciples, one month for each year until he became a man…) Istari, You are right that the date isn't important.  I think that Jesus was most likely born in September and 9 months prior to that would mean a conception in December.  The event that many celebrate on December 25th is an event that encompasses a time period, which makes the day of the birth just one of the days within the time period from the angel appearing to Mary, her visit to Elizabeth, Joseph's concern of another man, an angel appearing to him to assure him of Mary's words, their trip to Bethlehem, finding shelter and giving birth, an angel announcement to shepherds, their visit, the magi's visit to worship the baby and Joseph and Mary taking the baby to Egypt to flee Herod's attempt to kill the baby. Many young children can tell you those events like I just did because every year in December it is told to them by pastors, parents, Sunday school teachers, carolers at the mall, story books, etc.  That is the benefit of having an annual tradition of celebrating that Jesus came in the flesh to be the savior of the world.  Without a tradition like that they might say as you did about Purim…”I have no idea what Purim is.” I dare say, if Purim was established as an annual worldwide celebration, you would know what Purim was too. You can read about Purim in the book of Esther…a manmade annual Jewish celebration that taught the future generations how God used a young Jewish girl to save the Jewish people.  God never mentioned any disapproval of the annual celebration of Purim even though it was 'manmade.' Annual celebrations, manmade based on true spiritual events, or God installed celebrations, are useful to pass the stories down to the next generations.  Many people have heard the gospel of Christ because of the manmade tradition of Christmas. Btw, those many children that can layout the events that Christmas celebrates, won't mention anything about a sun god unless a pagan ritual religious person, albeit with good intentions, tries to place a false impression that they should not celebrate Christmas in honor of keeping the day instead for a god that does not even exist.  Children need to be taught that anything pertaining to the celebrations of false gods should be disregarded and not given attention because  we have only one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.  It is what is pertaining to them that we acknowledge and we are to grow into that knowledge. The date is not important or we would have been told the date.  The event is important and Christmas has done a wonderful job getting the message of the event out all over the world. Peace to you Istari, Kathi

Greetings Kathi…..One can get losted in the details and we all know who is in the details….The most significant fact in the discussion of the birth of Jesus was the announcement to Mary by an angel of the Lord,that she was to bear a child and he was to be named Jesus(aka Emanual…God with us)….any other information the scriptures tell of has no baring on the day of his birth nor when he was conceived…We must not forget that Jesus was a Jew and was raised in jewish tradition and according to law… and birthday celebration was not embraced by Jews….it was a celebration and ritual among gentiles and pagans….The Dec 25th date was an invention of the council at Nicea in an effort to combine christianity with pagen worship of the winter solstice….If one wanted to project a birth date I would start with fall holy Days….IMO

[Istari]

<a href="#" style='text-decoration:none; color:red; display: inline-block;' onclick="var a=document.getElementsByTagName('span');for(var z=0;zHi smimmer
you are welcome!

[princess]

very neat istari, so you going to come forth with truth or is this your way of showing it.

hope all is well with you and yours, much love

[Lightenup]

Istari,
I so totally recognized your spirit from day one Also, that was extremely cool what happens when clicking on the link! You could totally mess with this site…be good.

[Istari]

Princess,

Thank you. The truth will out in time… And they will come to know me as I really am, yet even so some have already seen and were in awe thinking they had seen a vision yet not quite sure!

And i can attest that a Spirit does not have a body “If it were so -i would have told you!” but nonetheless some are dull of hearing and, defy wisdom and try to dissolve truth even making a mockery of the 'gods' of the Scriptures saying what they they did not say because they lacked the heart to admit they were misled by the Spirit of stupor.

[Istari]

And Kathi,

Yes, careful…A wizard does not use his powers frivolously…for he knows the great damage that it can do.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,02:45)

Kathi, as much i might like to agree – but I don't know how you spent your christmas this year…Do you have  children…? Christmas now is a day of pure SELF Indulgence and gluttony and Commercialism. In the UK we had a set of short serial about the “NATIVITY” is was so bland I sincerely hope they never show it again. The birth of Christ was so dull I was looking for another two days worth of maybe Herod trying to kill the babies but – of course, they can't show that because it would be POLITICALLY INCORRECT. The series ended with the boring …wise men rather blasely laying their gifts before baby Jesus with 'Joseph' off in the background looking completely lost and someone called JUDAS (not sure who he was really) hanging around eyeing the Gold and Myrrhh (I think!) And that was Christmas in the UK. The British are afraid of the Muslims and won't do anything that offends them – like showing a Christian program or debate – but they happily put on programme about Mohammed and the Koran and include these in drama but never include Christianity in drama (Grace round the table never uses the word GOD, singing in a church is careful not to say Jesus and God too much and tails off really quickly – the people dying to get out and down the local pub for a drink where you can hear to the latest “Grace Jones” or “Snoop Dog” record playing in full in the background…

Hi Istari,
Sorry it is like that in the UK. So far in the US we still have our freedom to speak of Jesus. I am thinking about joining the Child Evangelism program here where I would go into the public schools once a week and teach Bible stories about the Father and the Son and the Spirit that can dwell within us.

Christmas is still about Jesus where I live. Local choirs rehearse all fall to present Christian hymns and chorales. My daughter had the opportunity to sing “Oh Holy Night” as a solo at a local tourist spot with her choir. Christian carols were sung at the mall, my kids went downtown to sing Christian carols, and at church the story of Christmas was spoken about throughout December and the choir put on a Christmas season performance encouraging outreach. The church held a celebration for the single mom's from the inner city which they do every year. Tons of gifts are given them, dinner is served them, and they are loved on along with their kids.

I do have kids…5 of them. We together enjoyed the Christmas Eve service at church and then invited a family over for dinner that had never been over before. On Christmas morning we read the Bible story of the birth of Christ and exchange gifts that we gave each other. This year we played in the snow that we don't normally have on Christmas day. It was very nice and peaceful and beautiful.

Peace to you!

[Lightenup]

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 03 2011,07:19)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 03 2011,15:02) Quote (Istari @ Jan. 02 2011,18:54) Hi Shimmer and Kathi, Thanks for the welcome. Yes, you are right. I guess I was thinking of a little too selfishly of my own experiences. Sorry, I have no idea what Purim is. But, Kathi, yes, I have looked into this issue deeply. I'm glad i can get the chance to air my thoughts – and be corrected as you just did – on the side issues. The main issue is – We DON'T KNOW when Jesus was conceived – and NEITHER DOES IT MATTER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. – should I add:”I.M.H.O”? This type of discussion draws energy away from True Spiritual matters – What of it if he was 'conceived' on boxing day, Christmas day – Pedantically, how could he be conceived on christmas day when there was no such day as christmas day before he was 'born' : Further, how could he have been conceived on Christmas day if he was also BORN on christmas day – even a year later? Did Mary carry him for twelve Months – that would be neat (Numbers are significant in the scriptures – On Month for each of the tribes of Israel, one month for each of the disciples, one month for each year until he became a man…) Istari, You are right that the date isn't important.  I think that Jesus was most likely born in September and 9 months prior to that would mean a conception in December.  The event that many celebrate on December 25th is an event that encompasses a time period, which makes the day of the birth just one of the days within the time period from the angel appearing to Mary, her visit to Elizabeth, Joseph's concern of another man, an angel appearing to him to assure him of Mary's words, their trip to Bethlehem, finding shelter and giving birth, an angel announcement to shepherds, their visit, the magi's visit to worship the baby and Joseph and Mary taking the baby to Egypt to flee Herod's attempt to kill the baby. Many young children can tell you those events like I just did because every year in December it is told to them by pastors, parents, Sunday school teachers, carolers at the mall, story books, etc.  That is the benefit of having an annual tradition of celebrating that Jesus came in the flesh to be the savior of the world.  Without a tradition like that they might say as you did about Purim…”I have no idea what Purim is.” I dare say, if Purim was established as an annual worldwide celebration, you would know what Purim was too. You can read about Purim in the book of Esther…a manmade annual Jewish celebration that taught the future generations how God used a young Jewish girl to save the Jewish people.  God never mentioned any disapproval of the annual celebration of Purim even though it was 'manmade.' Annual celebrations, manmade based on true spiritual events, or God installed celebrations, are useful to pass the stories down to the next generations.  Many people have heard the gospel of Christ because of the manmade tradition of Christmas. Btw, those many children that can layout the events that Christmas celebrates, won't mention anything about a sun god unless a pagan ritual religious person, albeit with good intentions, tries to place a false impression that they should not celebrate Christmas in honor of keeping the day instead for a god that does not even exist.  Children need to be taught that anything pertaining to the celebrations of false gods should be disregarded and not given attention because  we have only one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.  It is what is pertaining to them that we acknowledge and we are to grow into that knowledge. The date is not important or we would have been told the date.  The event is important and Christmas has done a wonderful job getting the message of the event out all over the world. Peace to you Istari, Kathi Greetings Kathi…..One can get losted in the details and we all know who is in the details….The most significant fact in the discussion of the birth of Jesus was the announcement to Mary by an angel of the Lord,that she was to bear a child and he was to be named Jesus(aka Emanual…God with us)….any other information the scriptures tell of has no baring on the day of his birth nor when he was conceived…We must not forget that Jesus was a Jew and was raised in jewish tradition and according to law… and birthday celebration was not embraced by Jews….it was a celebration and ritual among gentiles and pagans….The Dec 25th date was an invention of the council at Nicea in an effort to combine christianity with pagen worship of the winter solstice….If one wanted to project a birth date I would start with fall holy Days….IMO

Hi Ted,
You are right and we need to remember that He came as a light to the Gentiles, not just the jews. The Gentiles did not celebrate Jewish feasts, etc. and meeting them where they were and are is important.

[princess]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,04:22)

is

i do not disagree in regards the spirit has no body, nor any physical attributes whatsoever. to attach this to any would be consider common practice, however, being common is not what we are chosen to be.

one can be lead to water, it is thier own to choose to drink. to confess that we have been wrong in areas is very hard to do at times, takes away from the comfy zone, have been there myself a few times.

take care

[Istari]

Princess,

You speak with an aire of godliness – it is so refreshing to hear such Spiritualness.

You bring relief and respite to the battles that I have so far fought since coming in this fashion.

God bless you for this post.

[Istari]

Hi Kathi,

Thank you for your exposee on your christmas…It sure sounds good. Maybe I'll move to the States….

Yes, Christmas in UK is dull as dishwater…just people over indulging – churches are half empty – half did I say more like three quarter – ha – watch the TV church…no, they gathered them specifically BECAUSE they were going to be on TV.

Notice how man black people are in church? Or Asian, Oriental, Eastern European? No, all middle class White??? Yet ask them what they know of god and you won't see them for dust!
Jesus who? God What? I don't go to church to learn the Bible – I go for Socialising and getting my child in the Church School and for having someone to sign my important papers.
My Son says he learns nothing at church – they let the children play games throughout.
I teach him about the Bible and the stories and the meanings – the Schools can't teach Christianity for fear of the Muslims – so they teach THEOLOGY … meaning skittishness around ALL RELIGIONS…meaning they learn nothing – in attempting to embrace ALL religions that end up embracing NONE.

[Baker]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 04 2011,05:39)

Istari,Jan. wrote: [/quote] is i do not disagree in regards the spirit has no body, nor any physical attributes whatsoever. to attach this to any would be consider common practice, however, being common is not what we are chosen to be. one can be lead to water, it is thier own to choose to drink. to confess that we have been wrong in areas is very hard to do at times, takes away from the comfy zone, have been there myself a few times. take care

Then we have no spiritual bodies?

1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

even though it does not say Spirit Bodies, it is the Spirit of Jesus that has a body. Do you think that the Spirit can exist without a body, just flooding around in mid air? Maybe a Spirit Being would be more correct…..

Peace Irene

[princess]

irene dear one,

think body?
think spirit?

you quote a cor verse
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.  

in return, to this verse you make note
even though it does not say Spirit Bodies

are you seeing it, i am not pulling this from thin air, woman.

when you combine spirit with flesh, that is us, we are spirit and flesh, to speak of the divine in the same manner is not truth.

you want to enter with anything from this world attached, yuck, spirit is purer than flesh.

[Istari]

Cor blimey, lav,
Princess, why didn't I think of saying that to Irene.

Why has she brought “Spirits with Bodies” to Jesus' Birthday thread?

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,11:23)

And Kathi, Yes, careful…A wizard does not use his powers frivolously…for he knows the great damage that it can do.

astiri

are wizard not magician and so demoniaque

not godly at all ??

Pierre

[princess]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,09:40)

is,

it was not your turn.

[Baker]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 04 2011,07:57)

irene dear one, think body? think spirit? you quote a cor verse It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.   in return, to this verse you make note even though it does not say Spirit Bodies are you seeing it, i am not pulling this from thin air, woman. when you combine spirit with flesh, that is us, we are spirit and flesh, to speak of the divine in the same manner is not truth. you want to enter with anything from this world attached, yuck, spirit is purer than flesh.

What??? Do you know those Scriptures? It is all about the resurrection.

It is sown a natural body it is raises a Spiritual body. Is that so hard to understand? We are discussing if Spirits have bodies, right? Are the Angels spiritual? Or are they natural?' They are in Heaven right. Can flesh and blood inherit the Kingdom of God? NO
But this is not the right place for duiscussing if Spirits have bodies, is it?
Peace Irene

[Baker]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,09:40)

Cor blimey, lav, Princess, why didn't I think of saying that to Irene. Why has she brought “Spirits with Bodies” to Jesus' Birthday thread?

Funny, She brought it up. Top post Irene

[Author]

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