- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Merry Christmas William and Shimmer!
Christmas has certainly helped spread the word about the Christ child. My Mom was in Disney World this month and witnessed the scripture read and the Christian songs sung. Ask the world what the 'Feast of the Tabernacles' is about. I wonder if as many would know. I do think the Christmas tradition can be very positive.God bless!
Hello again, there is plenty of information that tell us that Christ was not born on Dec.25. The question is, is it right to celebrate His birthday on a day when the God Sun has his Birthday?
We had all of our Family at our House on the 25th with Dinner and presents for our youngest Grandchildren. We had a good time….We did not have a tree etc. For those that have no problems with this Merry Christmas……Peace and love IreneI found this on the internet
Frequently Asked Bible Questions
When was Jesus Christ born? Was Jesus born on December 25—Christmas Day?
History shows that December 25 was popularized as the date for Christmas, not because Christ was born on that day, but because it was already popular in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun. But could December 25 be the date of Christ's birth?
“Lacking any scriptural pointers to Jesus's birthday, early Christian teachers suggested dates all over the calendar. Clement…picked November 18. Hippolytus…figured Christ must have been born on a Wednesday…An anonymous document[,] believed to have been written in North Africa around A.D. 243, placed Jesus's birth on March 28” (Joseph L. Sheler, U.S. News & World Report, “In Search of Christmas,” Dec. 23, 1996, p. 58).A careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that December 25 couldn't be the date for Christ's birth. Here are two primary reasons:
First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account “suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night” (p. 309).
Similarly, The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues “against the birth [of Christ] occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted” shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.
Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.
Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, “the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism” (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus, 1970, p. 62).
If Jesus Christ wasn't born on December 25, does the Bible indicate when He was born? The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.
i find the next explanation the best evidence that Christ was not born on Dec.25
Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year (The Companion Bible, 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).
It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.
Although it is difficult to determine the first time anyone celebrated December 25 as Christmas Day, historians are in general agreement that it was sometime during the fourth century. This is an amazingly late date. Christmas was not observed in Rome, the capital of the Roman Empire, until about 300 years after Christ's death. Its origins cannot be traced back to either the teachings or practices of the earliest Christians.
Also we have no Scripture telling us to keep Christmas….
Is any one surprised that we, in the 21st century, behave just as the Israelis behaved in the OT? practicing pagan worship with all the trimmings? and they had Moses to lead them. who do “WE” have to lead us? Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, Baptists; do I really have to name them all?
And every one of them claims to have the truth; what does that make us? I mean the ones that believe them. Did not Jesus say, the BLIND leading the blind?
Here you are, arguing all day long, over what? and for what reason or purpose? Is any one paying attention to what any one is saying?
This is not even the blind “leading” the blind, this is the blind running in all direction; thank God there is the millennium when Jesus will teach all the world.Georg
Hi Irene,
You should check out how the Jews celebrated Purim. Also, Irene can you tell me about when Jesus was conceived?Thanks!
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 29 2010,14:45) Hi Irene,
You should check out how the Jews celebrated Purim. Also, Irene can you tell me about when Jesus was conceived?Thanks!
Kathishe just did few quotes above this one
Pierre
Pierre and Irene,
That account that Irene put up was not about when Jesus was conceived, it was about His birth. It says that He was probably born at the end of September which would make His conception at the end of December. At the end of December the Jews celebrate a manmade/God initiated festival of Hanukah. That festival has to do with 'light' and I believe it is also called the Festival of Lights. Here is something that I have run across from different writers:Quote By the way, it is said that when Mary conceived Yeshua, it was actually around December 25. Think about this for a second. He wasn’t born on December 25, but there are two things to see here. Number one, in the Jewish culture of His day, the day you were conceived was actually considered your birthday. Also, it was Chanukah time, and it was around Chanukah, which is the Festival of Lights, that the Light of the World was conceived. Even though Chanukah was a manmade festival, Yeshua still celebrated it. from here: http://jewishvoice.wordpress.com/2010….irthday
It is also interesting to read about all the celebrating and the customs of Purim.
found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PurimQuote (Lightenup @ Dec. 30 2010,12:28) Pierre and Irene,
That account that Irene put up was not about when Jesus was conceived, it was about His birth. It says that He was probably born at the end of September which would make His conception at the end of December. At the end of December the Jews celebrate a manmade/God initiated festival of Hanukah. That festival has to do with 'light' and I believe it is also called the Festival of Lights. Here is something that I have run across from different writers:Quote By the way, it is said that when Mary conceived Yeshua, it was actually around December 25. Think about this for a second. He wasn’t born on December 25, but there are two things to see here. Number one, in the Jewish culture of His day, the day you were conceived was actually considered your birthday. Also, it was Chanukah time, and it was around Chanukah, which is the Festival of Lights, that the Light of the World was conceived. Even though Chanukah was a manmade festival, Yeshua still celebrated it. from here: http://jewishvoice.wordpress.com/2010….irthday
It is also interesting to read about all the celebrating and the customs of Purim.
found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim
Kathiyou are pagan ,don't you??
what Jewish culture has to do with God son,and birth,
is the Jewish culture in control of when God says this is my time for my son,
are you stop it ? Irene told you according of what we know from scriptures event ,
now if you personally can come up with a scripture explanation what is different why you just do that ;
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 30 2010,05:28) Pierre and Irene,
That account that Irene put up was not about when Jesus was conceived, it was about His birth. It says that He was probably born at the end of September which would make His conception at the end of December. At the end of December the Jews celebrate a manmade/God initiated festival of Hanukah. That festival has to do with 'light' and I believe it is also called the Festival of Lights. Here is something that I have run across from different writers:Quote By the way, it is said that when Mary conceived Yeshua, it was actually around December 25. Think about this for a second. He wasn’t born on December 25, but there are two things to see here. Number one, in the Jewish culture of His day, the day you were conceived was actually considered your birthday. Also, it was Chanukah time, and it was around Chanukah, which is the Festival of Lights, that the Light of the World was conceived. Even though Chanukah was a manmade festival, Yeshua still celebrated it. from here: http://jewishvoice.wordpress.com/2010….irthday
It is also interesting to read about all the celebrating and the customs of Purim.
found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim
Kathi! Is the world celebrating Jesus conception, or His birth? We do know when He was about born, and it was not on Dec.25. Yet the Sun God was. In fact the Bible does not say to even celebrate His Birthday. Does anybody care what the Jews do??? NO
Peace IreneIrene,
Christians are celebrating His birth, His conception, and the story surrounding it with the shepherds, the angel's announcement, and the Magi traveling from afar to come to worship Him and that all didn't happen on one day. You are right that some of the Christmas hymns say that Jesus was born 'today' and refer to Dec. 25th and that is likely incorrect but the fact that He was born is true. We don't know the exact date, you are correct, but to not celebrate it because there are others that are/were celebrated on that date seems to be a 'religious' and 'legalistic' reason to me.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 25 2010,19:24) Keith,
Thanks! I got the book for Christmas. What part contradicts the Matthew account?
KathiThe link you gave says this…
“But the version of the Wise Men's story in this text is strikingly different than the traditional one in the Bible, told in 12 verses in the Gospel of Matthew.
In the “Revelation of the Magi,” Landau said, the Star of Bethlehem not only led the Wise Men, but actually became the Christ child.”
If you listen to the video you will see that it is different from Matt account.
Blessings Keith
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 25 2010,21:53) We went to a candle light procession which was put on by a secular company, they did a very good job of accurately telling of the birth of God's Son to an audience of thousands. Philippians 1:18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice.
Merry Christmas Kathi, Keith and all who enjoy the freedom and liberty which we have in Christ Jesus (apologizes to those who are offended ).
Wm
Hey WilliamI didn't see your post, I hope you had a Merry Christmas and that you will have a Happy New Year!
Blessings Keith
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 31 2010,08:29) No Pierre, I am not pagan. I celebrate Christmas in a Christian way, not a pagan way.
Kathithere is no christian way to celebrate Christmas
because Christmas is not a christian day or feast but a pagan one.
Pierre
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 31 2010,01:29) No Pierre, I am not pagan. I celebrate Christmas in a Christian way, not a pagan way.
KathiHave you ever ask your self why the “Christian” churches celebrate the birth of Jesus on the day pagans used to celebrate the “rebirth” of their “sun god”?
Figure it out, Jesus began his ministry after his 30th birthday, his ministry lasted 3 and a 1/2 years; he died on passover, or around April, meaning, Jesus was 33 1/2 years old when he died; add 6 month to April, and you come up with “DECEMBER”, right?
So, I ask you again, why do “Christian” churches celebrate his birthday on Dec. 25?
I could give you the answer, but I doubt it would make no difference, am I correct?
Georg
Ps, Pierre is right, there is no way to celebrate X-MAS in a Christian way.
Georg,
From what I read, choosing the 25th of December was motivated out of reaching out to the pagan world and giving them a real reason to celebrate a birth of a true Son of God. That sounds like good intentions to me. Georg, surely you can see that if Christ was born in September as many say, His conception was at the end of December during Hanukah. Is it wrong to celebrate Hanukah too at the end of December because the sun god (who doesn't even exists) was celebrated during that time by the pagans? Does the sun god exist Georg? If not, then it seems sorta silly to bring it up and let it worry you, imo.Sorry you and Pierre haven't been able to figure out how to celebrate Christmas in a Christian way but that doesn't mean it is impossible. We celebrate it in a way that pleases the Lord with love and joy in memory of the story of Christ's miracle conception, birth angels and special visitors. I know many who have figured it out…how to celebrate in a Christian way that is. You could too if you really wanted to but if you don't want to then you won't figure it out. Plain and simple.
ALL of the Pagan man-made mighty ones were born on the winter solstice (birth of the sun). How did this happen? They are all the same person whom the whole world worshipped in Babylon before the languages were changed! Tammuz, Zeus, Mithra, were all born on Dec. 25th! and for anyone who may still be decieved, santa claus IS NOT real, but Satan is.
The Messiah was born in the fall, what we call September/October, which is the 7th month on the Creator's calander. He was born in a Tabernacle/Sukka, and was circumcised on the eighth day “according to Scripture” which was a High Sabbath that year, also know as the Last Great Day and The Day of the LORD, the last day after the Feast of Tabernacles/Sukkot.
But ya'll wouldn't know that since you celebrate the sun-day and forsake the Sabbaths of the All Mighty.
Did you all realize that the name September means seven, October means eighth, November means nine, and December means 10.
Yahushua Messiah was born in the 7th month, which means He was concieved durring Chanukkah, and why not? He is the light of the world!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 30 2010,10:25) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 25 2010,19:24) Keith,
Thanks! I got the book for Christmas. What part contradicts the Matthew account?
KathiThe link you gave says this…
“But the version of the Wise Men's story in this text is strikingly different than the traditional one in the Bible, told in 12 verses in the Gospel of Matthew.
In the “Revelation of the Magi,” Landau said, the Star of Bethlehem not only led the Wise Men, but actually became the Christ child.”
If you listen to the video you will see that it is different from Matt account.
Blessings Keith
Hi Keith,
Thanks. I have started reading the book and I will see if it is really conflicting with the Matthew account or if it is more like tradition that is strikingly different. The book mentions 12 magi and not three. Matthew doesn't mention a certain number so the book is different from tradition on this point, not Matthew, for instance. The light was the spiritual light of the Son of God and only visible to the Magi. Within the light that guided them the image of the Son of God could be seen in many different stages of life by different Magi but they were not seeing the actual flesh baby until they got to the cave where the baby was. I don't think that necessarily conflicts with the Matthew account. The Matthew account is very skimpy on any details for sure and the ancient manuscript is full of details. I am finding it interesting.Have a Happy New Years, Keith.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
