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Recently Kathi and I had a conversation on Christmas. I would like to know all of your input on this.
Was Christ born on December 25, and does that matter or not?
Georg figured since Christ was Thirty-three and a half years old when He died. We know that He died in April and go back
6 Months and you have His Birthday. That brings you to October.
Peace and Love IreneI am totally surprised that nobody said anything on here. Don't you have any commons at all?
I would really like to know what you think. Christmas Is almost her.
Peace and Love IreneI am just bringing this up once more, then I will put it to rest, realizing that probable all of you here are keeping Christmas, otherwise you would have something to say.
Irene:(
Please note that at the time of the birth of Christ whom is God for those who believe such slander that there were calenders and yet in all 4 gospels this was left as unimportant therefore Christmas is also unimportant.
Those who wish to worship those who were born should consider what they are doing, If you wish to celebrate the birth of Christ how should you do that? By giving gifts to thers while some starve or give foolish gifts while some need practical things and if you give anything at all why should you wait until a certain date?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2009,12:43) Please note that at the time of the birth of Christ whom is God for those who believe such slander that there were calenders and yet in all 4 gospels this was left as unimportant therefore Christmas is also unimportant. Those who wish to worship those who were born should consider what they are doing, If you wish to celebrate the birth of Christ how should you do that? By giving gifts to thers while some starve or give foolish gifts while some need practical things and if you give anything at all why should you wait until a certain date?
Thank you for your respond, you are right as far as the calendar is concerned. God's Calendar starts in the Spring and not in the dead of Winter.
They are all called different too. Yes, and as far as the gifts are concerned too. But most like it that way. It really has been interesting that nobody except you now, have said anything. If you figure the Months when Zachary served in the Temple you can figure out when Christ was born. He was born in the end of September and beginning of October. The exact day is not possible to figure out, unless you know how?
Also nowhere in the Bible does God say to celebrate His Son's Birthday. Easter too. What He does say to do is to keep His death. Why, some might say. Because that is why we are Saved.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (georg @ Nov. 10 2009,13:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2009,12:43) Please note that at the time of the birth of Christ whom is God for those who believe such slander that there were calenders and yet in all 4 gospels this was left as unimportant therefore Christmas is also unimportant. Those who wish to worship those who were born should consider what they are doing, If you wish to celebrate the birth of Christ how should you do that? By giving gifts to thers while some starve or give foolish gifts while some need practical things and if you give anything at all why should you wait until a certain date?
Thank you for your respond, you are right as far as the calendar is concerned. God's Calendar starts in the Spring and not in the dead of Winter.
They are all called different too. Yes, and as far as the gifts are concerned too. But most like it that way. It really has been interesting that nobody except you now, have said anything. If you figure the Months when Zachary served in the Temple you can figure out when Christ was born. He was born in the end of September and beginning of October. The exact day is not possible to figure out, unless you know how?
Also nowhere in the Bible does God say to celebrate His Son's Birthday. Easter too. What He does say to do is to keep His death. Why, some might say. Because that is why we are Saved.
Peace and Love Irene
You are saved because you believe in God and Jesus never said remember his death he simply said “as often as you do this do this in remembrence of me”In other words come together and remember the message of God.
As I said God could have easily as he did with the passover give a certain date and it would have been practiced from long ago and not made up like it is today.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2009,13:47) Quote (georg @ Nov. 10 2009,13:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 10 2009,12:43) Please note that at the time of the birth of Christ whom is God for those who believe such slander that there were calenders and yet in all 4 gospels this was left as unimportant therefore Christmas is also unimportant. Those who wish to worship those who were born should consider what they are doing, If you wish to celebrate the birth of Christ how should you do that? By giving gifts to thers while some starve or give foolish gifts while some need practical things and if you give anything at all why should you wait until a certain date?
Thank you for your respond, you are right as far as the calendar is concerned. God's Calendar starts in the Spring and not in the dead of Winter.
They are all called different too. Yes, and as far as the gifts are concerned too. But most like it that way. It really has been interesting that nobody except you now, have said anything. If you figure the Months when Zachary served in the Temple you can figure out when Christ was born. He was born in the end of September and beginning of October. The exact day is not possible to figure out, unless you know how?
Also nowhere in the Bible does God say to celebrate His Son's Birthday. Easter too. What He does say to do is to keep His death. Why, some might say. Because that is why we are Saved.
Peace and Love Irene
You are saved because you believe in God and Jesus never said remember his death he simply said “as often as you do this do this in remembrence of me”In other words come together and remember the message of God.
As I said God could have easily as he did with the passover give a certain date and it would have been practiced from long ago and not made up like it is today.
Yes that is true, but celebrating that we are saved there is nothing wrong with that. Coming together and remembering Him is what celebrating is to me, anyway. We also have God's Holy Days listed in Leviticus 23 starting in verse 1 and nobody keeps them either. This world is upside down today and the Pagan holidays are more important then God's Holy Days are, and that to me is so sad.
IreneQuote (georg @ Nov. 09 2009,23:24) Recently Kathi and I had a conversation on Christmas. I would like to know all of your input on this.
Was Christ born on December 25, and does that matter or not?
Georg figured since Christ was Thirty-three and a half years old when He died. We know that He died in April and go back
6 Months and you have His Birthday. That brings you to October.
Peace and Love Irene
I doubt it since the calender in use at that time was not the one we use today.Quote (georg @ Nov. 09 2009,09:24) Recently Kathi and I had a conversation on Christmas. I would like to know all of your input on this.
Was Christ born on December 25, and does that matter or not?
Georg figured since Christ was Thirty-three and a half years old when He died. We know that He died in April and go back
6 Months and you have His Birthday. That brings you to October.
Peace and Love Irene
The Messiah was not born on december 25th.Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,18:17) Quote (georg @ Nov. 09 2009,23:24) Recently Kathi and I had a conversation on Christmas. I would like to know all of your input on this.
Was Christ born on December 25, and does that matter or not?
Georg figured since Christ was Thirty-three and a half years old when He died. We know that He died in April and go back
6 Months and you have His Birthday. That brings you to October.
Peace and Love Irene
I doubt it since the calender in use at that time was not the one we use today.
Yes, I know. We have a Rye Study Bible and all of God's Calender Months are shown. When you figure from the time that Zacharia served in the Temple and Maria visited Elizabeth. The exact month I will get back with you, have to look it up, and ask Georg.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 10 2009,18:19) Quote (georg @ Nov. 09 2009,09:24) Recently Kathi and I had a conversation on Christmas. I would like to know all of your input on this.
Was Christ born on December 25, and does that matter or not?
Georg figured since Christ was Thirty-three and a half years old when He died. We know that He died in April and go back
6 Months and you have His Birthday. That brings you to October.
Peace and Love Irene
The Messiah was not born on december 25th.
I am so glad that you know about this too. So you don't keep Christmas either? We have not done so for over 10 years. No Tree or any decorations on the outside of our House. We have realized that first Christ was not born on Dec. 25 and then it is the Sun God's Day and not the Son of God Birthday. How sad is that? But I have heard some say on the T.V. we do know that, but we like this Tradition and will keep it up.
Peace and Love IreneLucanus, who tied Yeshua' 30th year to the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar, 27-28 AD.
Lucanus effectively placed the birth in 3 BC.
In his second chapter, Lucanus tells what happened the day Miryam came to the Temple for purification 40 days after the birth of Yeshua.
All one has to know is what day this was.
And Lucanus plainly names the day.
In fact, he includes three statements identifying the day.
So what day was this?
Yom Kippur. The Day of Atonement. The 10th day of the seventh month of the Hebrew calendar.
Yom Kippur was called three things: The day of the “Fast,” the day of the “Purification,”and the day of “Redemption.”
Lucanus uses all three to identify the day Yeshua was brought to the Temple.
And he even quotes the Torah rule that mandates the 40 day period for the mother to wait after the child's birth [Lk 2:22-38].
This shows the 40th day of Miryam's Purification had begun at the end of Yom Kippur, the end of the 10th day of the 7th month, because we know the Purification was done at
the earliest opportunity, at the beginning of the 40th day after birth.And since the 6th month normally had only 29 days, simple arithmatic shows Miryam's 39 days of Purification had to have begun around sundown on the 1st day of the 6th month, called Elul.
This was the night of the first sighting of the new moon of Elul. 1st of Elul was September 11th in 3 BC.
We can also tell from Lucanus's Gospel that Yeshua had been born in early evening, for Lucanus says the shepherds were keeping watch by night, but still had time to go into town
and tell the people what they had seen earlier that evening.People rose early with the sun in those days, and would have been asleep by 9 or 10 pm.
Therefore, the birth had taken place no later than 8 pm, and probably before 7 pm.
Yet Lucanus says it happened at night, which means after sunset, surely after 6 pm in September.
Hence, it follows that Yeshua was born within a few minutes of 6:30-7:30 pm on the evening of September 11th, 3 BC.
Simple arithmatic.
Irene,
I have moved your post to here:Quote Kathi! Let me ask you a question, if your Son's Birthday is in October, but you celebrate it on a Monster days Birthday how do you think your Son is going to like that. Well, I think He will be upset with you. So what do you think how God feels about alll of this. Since we do know when Jesus Birthday Month is, and we keep it on the Sun-Gods day? I tell you I have to agree with my Husband after I rethought all of this again. I really don't want to take that chance that God will not like that.
I just needed to say this to you. What you do is up to you, and I will always Love you, IreneI think that those who don't celebrate Christmas just because we do not have the actual date right are missing the purpose of Christmas. We all seem to believe that the event happened so let's celebrate as a body…the event…the event that God sent His Son, born of a virgin. And Irene, about the monster who was born on Dec. 25th, well if Hitler were born on the same day and the same year as you were born, would that make it a reason to not celebrate your birthday on that day? I know a few people that were born on Dec. 25th, so no one should celebrate their birthday on that day? Didn't God give them their birthday?
So, the actual day is wrong but the event is true…celebrate the event. The Jews were told to annually celebrate the feasts that anticipated the coming Messiah, right? Christmas is celebrating the FACT that He came. I think that you are missing the forest for the trees…so to speak.
Love,
Kathi1.) The Pharaoh of Egypt on his birthday killed his baker (Gen 40:20);
2.)King Herod on his birthday killed John the Baptist. (Matt 14:6).
Only two birthdays I could find in scripture, and they did not fair well. In fact the persons did not seem to godly either.
Bar Mitzvot and Bat Mitzvot was reckoned so Birthdays must have been observed.
The ages of people in the Bible, beginning with Adam, are counted from the day of birth. Without birthdays how would they reckon their ages?
What of Eve when Cain was born?
She rejoiced at the birth of the first human being. She spoke with praise and exaltation, saying: “I have gotten a man from the Lord” (Genesis 4:1).
We know Yeshua was not born in December and so the Christmas festivity celebrating this is false.
We do know he was born in September.
Do we have any record the Apostles observed the birthday of Yeshua?
No, there is no record.
But there is also no record of them performing a wedding ceremony!
There is no record of them conducting a funeral.
There is no record of them concerning wedding anniversaries.
There is nothing about bridal or baby showers .
And, there is no actual Church service that shows use of musical instruments.
There is nothing about indoor toilets, offering plates, or song books.
There are no choirs, no fifth sunday dinner's on the ground, or women's meetings.
There are no Church garage or yard sales, no fund raising for missions, no prison ministries for sinners, and no hospital visits for sinners who are sick.
There are no home Bible studies for sinners.
So far as we know, there were no church buildings owned by Christians.
They met in homes and in other places.
There were no baptismal tanks or other devices used for immersion of converts, but rather baptisms were done in streams, rivers, or natural ponds.
There were no New Testament Bibles in the possession of the Saints or Church members.
Few had the Old Testament or could even afford to own one that was available.
The most they could do was look upon the scrolls in the Synagogue or Temple and hear them read there.
There are no business owners in the New Testament among Church members, and so far as we know, no one who held employment working for another.
We could go on and on and list the things NOT FOUND in the practice of the Apostles and use the absence of these to place bondage upon Believers.
To do so is insanity.
That is why we are enjoined to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF 'ELOHIM.
This is not the work of novices.
If there is evil, sin, or wrong in a thing we have no reservations, we will oppose it.
But we must have Bible for the sin or evil that is in a thing.
What about the birth of Yeshua, was there evil in this event?
Angels worshiped. Yes, here is what the Word of 'elohim says about the angles on the birthday of Yeshua:
“And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of 'elohim worship him” (Heb 1:6).
Then again, on the very BIRTHDAY of Yeshua here is what the Word of God declares:
“Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me” (Heb 10:5).
The shepherds abiding in the field came to the birthday of Yeshua.
Did they celebrate it every year after that?
No, but they were there on his birthday.
We do know according to Job 20:15 it was a custom to carry the news of a child's birth to all who had a reason to know.
What does the Bible say against celebrating birthdays? NOTHING!
Is it pagan to celebrate a birthday? NO!
Has anyone proven birthday celebrations began with pagans? NO!
Will you go to hell for celebrating your birthday? NO!
Is it a sin to celebrate your New Birth in the Messiah on its annual day? NO!
Is it a lie to teach the Bible is against celebrating birthdays? YES!
Is it a lie that birthdays began within paganism? YES!
Did people in the Bible count their birthdays? YES!
Did Jews celebrate the 12th birthday of boys and girls? YES! Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah
Did the parents of Yeshua take him on his 12th birthday to Jerusalem and celebrate his Bar Mitzvah? YES!
Did Levites on their 30th birthday celebrate becoming a priest? YES!
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 10 2009,20:44) Irene,
I have moved your post to here:Quote Kathi! Let me ask you a question, if your Son's Birthday is in October, but you celebrate it on a Monster days Birthday how do you think your Son is going to like that. Well, I think He will be upset with you. So what do you think how God feels about alll of this. Since we do know when Jesus Birthday Month is, and we keep it on the Sun-Gods day? I tell you I have to agree with my Husband after I rethought all of this again. I really don't want to take that chance that God will not like that.
I just needed to say this to you. What you do is up to you, and I will always Love you, IreneI think that those who don't celebrate Christmas just because we do not have the actual date right are missing the purpose of Christmas. We all seem to believe that the event happened so let's celebrate as a body…the event…the event that God sent His Son, born of a virgin. And Irene, about the monster who was born on Dec. 25th, well if Hitler were born on the same day and the same year as you were born, would that make it a reason to not celebrate your birthday on that day? I know a few people that were born on Dec. 25th, so no one should celebrate their birthday on that day? Didn't God give them their birthday?
So, the actual day is wrong but the event is true…celebrate the event. The Jews were told to annually celebrate the feasts that anticipated the coming Messiah, right? Christmas is celebrating the FACT that He came. I think that you are missing the forest for the trees…so to speak.
Love,
Kathi
Kathi! What I meant was is if you would celebrate your Son's Birthday on a Day that WOULD NOT BE HIS BIRTHDAY ON THE 25 OF DECEMBER. IF HIS BIRTHDAY WOULD BE IN OCTOBER, WOULD YOU STILL KEEP IT ON DECEMBER 25. ASnd do you think if your Son would like that? That you did not address in your last post.
Love IreneQuote (kerwin @ Nov. 10 2009,22:23) Does not God desire Compassion instead of Sacrifice?
What do you mean by that, that it is O.K. to elebrate His Birthday on a day that He was not born on, but a Sun-God
was? I don't think so. But like I told Kathi if you choose to do so, that is your choice. My choice is not to do so, because I would not like it if my Family would celebrate my Birthday on a day I was not born on.
Irene
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