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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 20 2010,01:16) Adam……… be careful of the Jewish Faith, because they are indeed biased in there beliefs and reject New Testament and Jesus, as the one, GOD was using to work salvation in the earth, they tend to trust in there traditions and Just the Old (first) testament. I am not saying (ALL) that they believe is wrong because it is not, they truly do believe in (ONLY) ONE GOD as you and I and many here do. However they reject Jesus, and that is not a good thing Brother. I know fore a fact the majority do, i have spent a lot of time among the Jews and much discussion with them in there synagogues and with there Rabies and have debated scriptures with them and I dearly love them and have many close Jewish friends to this day. Don't let go of your (fundamental) Faith in GOD and His WORK through JESUS who is The CHRIST our brother. He is more important than Moses and the Law His Faith in GOD, is what our FAITH needs to be, The exact same, be careful not to lose your trust in Christ Jesus as the anointed one of GOD who Moses Said GOD would Send , I believe you will not anyway, but send this to you out of LOVE Brother.
peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………..gene
Thank you very much for those comforting words brother Gene. I always like your way of approach. Any how I am not far away from what you believe and I hope I will not deviate from the true path of Bible. But I am only iquiring into the NT material how it was developed during the first Four generations of beginnings of Christianity. I find it more interesting than reading it with a preconceived ideas. I also like our brother Kerwin for his patience in refuting my contraversial arguments.Thanks and love to you both
AdamThe word virgin as used in the scriptures simply means a woman of marriageable age, ie, a young woman. Culturally, people got married at an age younger that our Western culture. Included in the phrase “Take unto thee thy wife” in Matthew 1:20 is the idea of consummating their marriage by sexual intercourse.
Hi Barley,
Nice to see you on this thread. Thanks for your comments on Virgin Birth. Yes I also believe that Jesus must have born to normal human parents like any other Jew in his time. There is nothing secret or strange in that. Virign Birth is another myth incorporated by early church into its traditions to make Jesus' birth as abnormal compared to any Pagan Kings whose births were of abnormal nature. Hope you will share more on this subject.Peace to you
AdamAdam,
You have failed to explain how a maiden giving birth to a childd is a sign as maidens give birth to children on a regular basis.
So what is so special about a young married woman giving birth to a child that it would be called a sign?
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
It is not the maiden who will be sign brother Kerwin, but the child would be the sign for king Ahaz. You are ignoring my replies repeatedly. The child will be sign when he starts differentiating good and evil by that time the two adversary kings will be no more. Christianity especially the writer of Matthew misinterpreted Hebrew scriptures to suit his dogma.
The Bible does NOT teach:
– that the Sovereign Almighty Creator of all things, had a beginning.
– that the word G-d is a proper pagan substitute for the Creator's name “YHWH” (Yahweh).
– that the name J-sus is the proper name for Yahshua, the only begotten son of Yahweh.
– that the Son of Yahweh, existed co-eternally, with Sovereign Creator Spirit Yahweh.
– that Yahweh created the globe and all things in 7 literal 24-hour days.
– that the Sovereign Almighty Creator Spirit Yahweh violates His laws of science.
– that Adam and Eve were the first people on the globe.
– that Adam and Eve are the parents of all the various colored races on the globe.
– that the man in Eden that tempted and spoke to Adam and Eve, was a literal snake.
– that angels (celestial beings) can have intercourse with daughters of men.
– that Noah's flood covered the entire globe and killed all breathing life.
– that Scripture is the history and record for all the various races on the globe.
– that the laws of Yahweh, given only to Israel, are for all the races on the globe.
– that Yahweh is a trinity (three persons in one being) Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
– that Yahshua Messiah was not able to sin.
– that every word in the Bible is without error and inspired by Yahweh.
– that there is a place of eternal hell fire.
– that the globe is under the rule of a Devil, Satan, Lucifer, or other created being.
– that Satan, Devils and Demons can possess and enter into the mind of a man or woman.
– that celestial messengers (angels) of Yahweh can sin and challenge the ONE who Created them.
– that there was a war in heaven, featuring rebellious angels fighting good angels.
– that it is possible for a God to die.
– that physical (terrestrial) men can see the Sovereign Almighty Creator Yahweh.
– that Mary the mother of Yahshua was born without sin.”
– that the Kingdom of God, or of heaven, is coming in the future.
– that the Kingdom of God, or of heaven is “the church” or physical.
– that Yahshua the Messiah was executed on a Christian cross having a horizontal cross member.
– that there will be a Second Coming, to begin the earthly reign of Yahshua.
– that there will be a literal thousand-year reign by Yahshua on earth.
– that there will be a future rapture of the saints out of the world.
– that the resurrection from the dead is only for faithful believers.
– that the book of Revelation deals with future prophecy applicable in this age.
– that any books of the Bible, including the book of Revelation were written after AD 70.
– that the fictional, non-historical Book of Ester belongs in Scripture.
– that the Scriptures are limited to the current 66 books in the current Bible.
– that the Sabbath, the seventh day, was changed to a Sunday, the 1st day of the week.
– that sprinkling is a correct form to demonstrate Baptismal repentance
– that Baptism is done by invoking the Christian “Trinity.”
– that without the Gospel message, or faith in Yahshua, there is no salvation.
– that Yahshua was a human sacrifice for the sins of the world.
– that Yahweh would accept a human sacrifice for anyone's sin.
– that Yahshua Messiah was not a physical descendant of King David
– that the earth and everything on it will be destroyed with fire.
– that heaven is a physical place for believers to go after death.
– that homosexuality is a life style permitted in Scripture.
– that marriage with an unbeliever, or miscegenation among the races is permitted.
– that Jews are related to the historical Scriptural Israelite tribe of Yahudah.
– that Jews are true descendants of Shem, or that Jews are even Shemites.
– that the Jewish people are Yahweh's chosen people, and descendants of Abraham.
– that the modern state of Israel is found in future Bible prophecy.Source: http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/Documents/Doctrinesrejected.htm
Adam,
Scripture states the sign will be the maiden giving birth to a child. It does not name the child or the maiden. If you assume maiden means young woman then you are mere stating that a young women giving birth to a child is the sign. Young women were always giving birth to children in that age as well as this so it simply is not much of a sign.
The boy will eat curds and honey because all who remain in the land will eat curds and honey according to verse 22.
The answer to this mystery I posed does not actually effect my conclusion since scriptures can have more than one meaning as God does speak in entendre though his hidden meaning are not risqué.
In my conclusion the evidence does support that Matthew was looking for the hidden meaning of that scripture and not the obvious. It is certainly not the only place he does that and it is not the only time a Jew has done that as you should well know. Jesus used entendre in his teachings as well. That why understanding the Jewish cultural mindset of that era and particular the group of Jews that Jesus and his student were part of is important to understanding New Testament Scriptures.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Applying scriptures left and right by taking them out of their own context and time of application disproves them as uninspired. Many scholars have proved the same in the history that Bible is written by ordinary human beings and it was not God-written book. Infact it is purely a human book like any other religious book. There are myths and contradictions. It is erroneous but not inerrant. Closing our eyes to the evidences given by historians is nothing but foolishness on part of Christianity.
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,17:39) Hi brother Kerwin,
Applying scriptures left and right by taking them out of their own context and time of application disproves them as uninspired. Many scholars have proved the same in the history that Bible is written by ordinary human beings and it was not God-written book. Infact it is purely a human book like any other religious book. There are myths and contradictions. It is erroneous but not inerrant. Closing our eyes to the evidences given by historians is nothing but foolishness on part of Christianity.
Adam
Hi Adam, (Rom.5:14)Matt.5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause
shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be
in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.Ed J (Joshua 22:23)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAdam,
Historians argue about what has happened in their brief lifetimes. They argue even though they have more evidence available about what occurred in those lifetimes that what occurred 2000 or more years ago. In fact a lot of what Historians spout is their self made myths. I therefore do not regard them as reliable witnesses.
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 12 2010,17:47) Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,17:39) Hi brother Kerwin,
Applying scriptures left and right by taking them out of their own context and time of application disproves them as uninspired. Many scholars have proved the same in the history that Bible is written by ordinary human beings and it was not God-written book. Infact it is purely a human book like any other religious book. There are myths and contradictions. It is erroneous but not inerrant. Closing our eyes to the evidences given by historians is nothing but foolishness on part of Christianity.
Adam
Hi Adam, (Rom.5:14)Matt.5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause
shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be
in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.Ed J (Joshua 22:23)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi brother Ed J,
I don't judge any particular individual here. I am only criticising a religious book as an individual who is having every right to question what he believes.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,18:10) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 12 2010,17:47) Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,17:39) Hi brother Kerwin,
Applying scriptures left and right by taking them out of their own context and time of application disproves them as uninspired. Many scholars have proved the same in the history that Bible is written by ordinary human beings and it was not God-written book. Infact it is purely a human book like any other religious book. There are myths and contradictions. It is erroneous but not inerrant. Closing our eyes to the evidences given by historians is nothing but foolishness on part of Christianity.
Adam
Hi Adam, (Rom.5:14)Matt.5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause
shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be
in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.Ed J (Joshua 22:23)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi brother Ed J,
I don't judge any particular individual here. I am only criticising a religious book as an individual who is having every right to question he believes.
Peace to you
Adam
Shalom Adam,'Your' use of the “Edit” button is proof
'you' are capable of changing your position. (2Peter 1:21 / 2Tm.3:16)B'Shem
YHVHAdam,
I did not address why I called the works of historians myths. The reason is there works are sometimes disproven even as they produce them. It is not unknown for these experts to squabble over what they perceive is truth often based on the sparse evidence they can find.
It is true that we cannot confirm each word in scripture and that some words appear to be wrong. The problem is that historic evidence like scripture is subject to human interpretation and thus one now led by the truth will not discover the truth.
I am not really bothered by any of that for God’s word is still true and the truth will show itself to those who seek God.
But the problem here is that not even one knows that so called truth. Then how can you say it is truth? Could you answer the queries raised by many here? ..No borther No.. You can not because you have not been given understanding of all such ambigous concepts. This is the fate of Christianity. An honest seeker of truth gets frustrated by such unending debates where there will be no conclusion. At times I even doubt there is God. I feel so frustrated my brother Kerwin. I read and read Bible and other books but the result is frustration. Hope I may be comforted by the invisible God…..
AdamAdam,
Great patience is required in these times but God will provide a way if you are persistent in asking him to and patient in waiting for him. There is much that has to be accomplished in its time and the current time of desolation will in time pass when what it needs to accomplish is accomplished. But as for us we need to seek to righteous even as God is righteous. God is carrying out his plan to save as many as he can and that plan is righteous. Trust in him and trust in his Son.
Thank you very much for those consoling words brother Kerwin. I too hope so in the coming days we may be given with understanding of what I am questioning today..
Love and peace
AdamSome more thoughts on Isa 7:14 taken from a Jewish article….
“A very prominent prophecy is claimed in Isaiah vii., 14,
but in order to understand it better we will cite with it the
preceding verses 13 and 14. Here Isaiah says to the wicked
King Ahaz : “Hear ye now, O house of David ; it is a small
thing to you to weary men, but will ye weary God also?
Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a
virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name
Immamiel.”
This is plainly spoken, then, to give a sign to the house
of David, arid not to all Israel, and not to take place over
s,even hundred years later. Who this woman was we will
not discuss, but that my assertions are correct, I turn the
page in the bible and- read in the next chapter, viii., 2, 3,
''And I took unto me faithful witnesses and I went unto
the prophetess and she conceived and bare a son ; then saith
the Lord, call him Maher-shal-al-hashbaz.” Here the child
spoken of must have been born without having waited centuries,
and as we find the child grown into manhood, the
prophet again speaks of him (ib., 8), “And he shall pass
thr Migh Judah, he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach
even to the neck, and the stretching out of his wings shall
fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.”
In the face of this, can we find a prophecy concerning the
Messiah, not-withstanding that ha-almah, the young woman,
is translated into “a virgin ?” Can we not distinctly see that
it speaks of events then occurring with Immanuel then born ?Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 17 2010,21:57) Some more thoughts on Isa 7:14 taken from a Jewish article…. “A very prominent prophecy is claimed in Isaiah vii., 14,
but in order to understand it better we will cite with it the
preceding verses 13 and 14. Here Isaiah says to the wicked
King Ahaz : “Hear ye now, O house of David ; it is a small
thing to you to weary men, but will ye weary God also?
Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a
virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name
Immamiel.”
This is plainly spoken, then, to give a sign to the house
of David, arid not to all Israel, and not to take place over
s,even hundred years later. Who this woman was we will
not discuss, but that my assertions are correct, I turn the
page in the bible and- read in the next chapter, viii., 2, 3,
''And I took unto me faithful witnesses and I went unto
the prophetess and she conceived and bare a son ; then saith
the Lord, call him Maher-shal-al-hashbaz.” Here the child
spoken of must have been born without having waited centuries,
and as we find the child grown into manhood, the
prophet again speaks of him (ib., 8), “And he shall pass
thr Migh Judah, he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach
even to the neck, and the stretching out of his wings shall
fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.”
In the face of this, can we find a prophecy concerning the
Messiah, not-withstanding that ha-almah, the young woman,
is translated into “a virgin ?” Can we not distinctly see that
it speaks of events then occurring with Immanuel then born ?
Adam! Do you have the right Book and verse of Isaiah 14:13-14? My Bible does not say what yours does.
IreneIrene,
Please share what you bible states and include what version of scripture you choose to use. Thank you!
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