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There is a difference in trusting in the bible and trusting in the translation of the bible. This is why I said we must investigate. We must compare translations, we must look at context and how the Hebrews defined and understood things.
It is obvious Irene does not follow this, she trusts in her King James bible, choosing to remain ignorant of mistranslations and deceptions created through those mistranslations. She can't even admit that the word Lucifer, has no right being in an English bible. Irene your heart is in the right place but IMO you need to come out of your indoctrination and ignorance.
Virgin birth of Jesus
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A series of articles onJesus Christ and Christianity
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The Virgin Birth of Jesus is a religious tenet of Christianity and Islam which holds that Mary miraculously conceived Jesus while remaining a virgin. A universally held belief in the Christian church by the second century,[1] this doctrine was included in the two most widely used Christian creeds, which state that Jesus “was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary” (the Nicene Creed as revised by the First Council of Constantinople) and was “born of the Virgin Mary” (Apostles' Creed), and was not seriously challenged, except by some minor sects, before the Enlightenment theology of the eighteenth century.[1]The gospels of Matthew and Luke say that Mary was a virgin and that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit[2][3]. These gospels, later tradition and current doctrine present Jesus' conception as a miracle involving no natural father, no sexual intercourse, and no male seed in any form, but instead brought about by the Holy Spirit.[4][5][6][7] The Gospel of Matthew additionally presents the virgin birth of Jesus as fulfilling a prophecy from the Book of Isaiah.[8]
Reference to the virgin birth of Jesus usually directs thought to his virginal conception, rather than to his actual birth. But in Roman Catholic and Orthodox usage, the term “Virgin Birth” means not only that Mary was a virgin when she conceived, but also that she gave birth as a virgin (remaining a virgo intacta), a belief attested since the second century.[9] (See Perpetual virginity of Mary.) The doctrine of the virgin birth of Jesus (i.e., Mary's virginal conception of Jesus) is not to be confused with that of the Immaculate Conception. The latter holds that Mary herself was conceived in the normal way, but immaculately (i.e., without original sin).
Mary's virginity at the conception of Jesus is also a tenet of Islam.[10] The Qur'an frequently refers to Jesus with the matronymic Jesus son of Mary (Isa bin Maryam).[11]
Contents [hide]
1 New Testament
1.1 Gospels
1.1.1 Matthew
1.1.2 Luke
1.1.3 Historicity
1.1.4 Allegory
1.1.5 Illegitimacy
1.1.6 Denial
1.2 Epistles of Paul
2 Old Testament
2.1 Bethulah and `almah
2.1.1 Comparison of Isaiah and pre-biblical literature
3 Christianity and similar traditions
3.1 Pseudepigrapha
4 Other miraculous births
5 Celebration
6 Immaculate Conception distinct from virginal conception
7 Parthenogenesis vs. Virgin Birth
8 Gallery of art
9 See also
10 Notes
11 Further reading
12 External links
If you don't believe in a Vigin Birth, Google it and you will find articles on it, more then I can paste here. So my advice is to do so.
Peace and Love IreneI want to point out that there are other versions of Matthew and I have heard of one that does not support the virgin birth of Jesus Christ as there was, according to historic rumor, a sect or sects that did not believe in the virgin birth.
Never the less I have not heard the same of Luke which also supports that Jesus was born of a virgin. We know that the writer of Luke also write the book of Acts and that Paul testifies that he traveled with Luke and seems to confirm the book of Acts in his letters.
I have never found any reason to doubt that Luke is a legitimate account and its account of Jesus' conception and birth is parallel to that in the book of Matthew we use. In addition other parts of Matthew are consistent with the message of salvation including the angel stating that Jesus came to save people from their sins.
How does this apply to the gospel. The answer is because we must believe what God states is true and if God states Jesus was born of a virgin then Jesus was born of a virgin.
The argument that Jesus was not born of a virgin if I understand it correctly is that Matthew misapplied scripture and therefore Jesus was not born of a virgin. The flaw in that argument is that it is invalid since the conclusion does not follow from the premise as regardless of whether Matthew applied scripture correctly Jesus could have still been born of a virgin.
The argument that virgin births are recorded in pagan religions and therefore Jesus was not born of a virgin has the same flaw since regardless what is recorded in pagan religions Jesus could still have been born of a virgin.
In the end I am more concerned that Matthew might have misapplied scripture than about the virgin birth since that accusation is aimed at the creditably of Matthew. I have attempted to defend him in my previous posts for that reason.
kerwin I still rather depend on the Bible then any thing else what man will tell us. There are lots of Article that we can look up, but in the end they still believe in a Virgin Birth. Math. will tell us all the Genealogy of Jesus Christ. Math. is a Book that I like, because it shows that Maria did not stay a Virgin, a flaw to the Catholic doctrine that Maria stayed a Virgin. She had other Children, which the Catholic Church does not believe. That broke the Camels back for me, even though I instituted a Rosary Society in the St. Newman Church which we belonged to at the time. When God opened our eyes, there was no stopping us, at age of 46 and 47 for my Husband and I. Thanks be to God our Father forever more.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Not3in1 @ June 21 2009,07:53) Hi Adam, I think you have made some very interesting points here, and I will think it over. I'm not afraid to wonder about stuff like this. It certainly doesn't mean that I am serving a different god if I do – or that I am not being faithful to the Father and his Son by doing so (ridiculous). We have been given brains to contemplate subjects such as these.
So, thank you for your insight!
Love,
Mandy
Hi Sis Mandy,
I appreciate your open mind on my post. I know nothing can stop us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord even the misbelief in the socalled myths like Virgin birth, bodily resurrection and preexistence. Nowadays I am reading my Bible with clarity and without any bias. I am free from any doctrinal bias. I hope you will also find new insights through such approach.I am also thankful to Sis Jodi and brother Gene for such open mind on their part. I hope God will lead us into all truth which was concealed in the mythical stories of N.T.
Peace and love
AdamAdam What seems to me that you usually follow man. The Virgin Birth is plainly documented in Math. and in Luke. I am certain that is the whole truth. Also the preexisting of Jesus has a few plain Scriptures, that can plainly identify Jesus. The one Scripture even Jesus Himself tells us that He was with God before the World was in
John 17:5 ” And now O Father glorify Me together with the glory I had with Yourself before the world was.” No guessing there.
Col. 1:15-17
Col. 1:18 tells us that He also was the firstborn of the dead, so in all He will have preeminence. Meaning first in all.
Peace and Love IreneLet me quote Jesus here “oh ye of little faith”. Look in the NT I’m sure you’ll find it.
How much faith does it take to believe the word of God?
Are you saved Christians or not?
Perhaps some of us need to spend a little more time making our lives fit God Word rather than trying to make Gods Word fit our lives!!!!Hi Jodi,
I guess I am ignorant too. I stand on the King James Bible as well. How many versions of the Word of God do you need to have faith in the word of God? The Word of God is to convict us and move us to carry out Gods will in our lives. If you question Gods Word than you question God and that will lead to your faith being questioned.Quote (gollamudi @ June 25 2009,18:15) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 21 2009,07:53) Hi Adam, I think you have made some very interesting points here, and I will think it over. I'm not afraid to wonder about stuff like this. It certainly doesn't mean that I am serving a different god if I do – or that I am not being faithful to the Father and his Son by doing so (ridiculous). We have been given brains to contemplate subjects such as these.
So, thank you for your insight!
Love,
Mandy
Hi Sis Mandy,
I appreciate your open mind on my post. I know nothing can stop us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord even the misbelief in the socalled myths like Virgin birth, bodily resurrection and preexistence. Nowadays I am reading my Bible with clarity and without any bias. I am free from any doctrinal bias. I hope you will also find new insights through such approach.I am also thankful to Sis Jodi and brother Gene for such open mind on their part. I hope God will lead us into all truth which was concealed in the mythical stories of N.T.
Peace and love
Adam
Hi GM,
Given the choice of believing you or the bible will not take us long.Why do you follow men?
Hi TJ,
The KJV is based on certain manuscripts-the more common and sometimes these are the most recent- while other bibles are based on others- perhaps at times older and less common manuscripts.We need to compare them as each has human flaws.
Hello again Nick,
What do you stand on and what do you believe in?
Do you believe in the written Word of God or not?
The Word of God cannot be destroyed. So; there are those that will try to dilute the Word of God.
God uses man to do his bidding here on earth and likewise does Satin.
Your belief seems somewhat elusive to me. You say some things that sound good yet the place of your stance is unseen.Hi TJ,
Are you standing on one version?
We need the Spirit to clarify truth as we have no original manuscripts leftHi Nick,
Yes; I stand on one version, the King James. And the Spirit of God moves me daily through prayer, meditation, and reading. I am also moved through the preaching of Godly men and congregating. You might try the congregating thing some time. Or perhaps you could let me know which version(s) of the bible will make it easier to intermingle with the worldly people and be ashamed of my faith.How about:
Accept salvation through Jesus Christ.
Get scripturally Baptized by emersion.
And have a Church for the newly adopted brethren to get fed.What a church? Congregate? Fulfill the Will of God and share the Gospel of Christ?
I want salvation but don’t ask me to be a Jesus Freak!!!
Quit being a pantywaist, namby pamby Christian and get of the computer once in a while and try being a Romans 12:1, 2 kinda Christian.Hi all,
Here is another link on Virgin Birth. Please gothrough with open mind.http://www.torahofmessiah.com/virginbirth.html
Thank you
AdamQuote (TechJoe @ June 26 2009,16:54) Hi Nick,
Yes; I stand on one version, the King James. And the Spirit of God moves me daily through prayer, meditation, and reading. I am also moved through the preaching of Godly men and congregating. You might try the congregating thing some time. Or perhaps you could let me know which version(s) of the bible will make it easier to intermingle with the worldly people and be ashamed of my faith.
Hi TJ,
This boasting is unseemly.Fellowship with the truth and not man's tradition.
Quote (TechJoe @ June 26 2009,17:09) How about:
Accept salvation through Jesus Christ.
Get scripturally Baptized by emersion.
And have a Church for the newly adopted brethren to get fed.What a church? Congregate? Fulfill the Will of God and share the Gospel of Christ?
I want salvation but don’t ask me to be a Jesus Freak!!!
Quit being a pantywaist, namby pamby Christian and get of the computer once in a while and try being a Romans 12:1, 2 kinda Christian.
Hi Tim! We came out of the Catholic Church and belonged to the W.W.Church of God for 10 years. It is there were we learned to read the Bible. Since then however the Church has gone back to believe in the Trinity Doctrine which We do not believe in. Since 1994 my Husband and I have stayed Home. I do miss the fellowship, but I could not go to a Church that beliefs in a Pagan Doctrine. You do not have t go to a Church to get fed. The Word of God is who does that for us. God has opened our minds to much truths, which I am forever thankful for. From believing in a Virgin Maria, so false, to the Trinity also false and preexisting of Jesus, which is true. “Prove all things.” which we do.The one thing I always dislike is, if a person talks about another, and thinks only He knows it all.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (gollamudi @ June 26 2009,12:51) Hi all,
Here is another link on Virgin Birth. Please go through with open mind.http://www.torahofmessiah.com/virginbirth.html
Thank you
Adam
Have you found any evidence that an alternative to the book of Luke exists that does not include the Virgin conception accounts?If not I do not have the time go through all the teaching of those who claim to know “the truth”.
I'd like to suggest an alternative version.
Almost all of you will immediately refute it based upon the bible or personal belief, which is fine, and there is no need to tell me that since I know it will be that way.
I would be interested if any who are able to communicate with God can refute it based on a communication from God to them.
If any such wish to refute it, please consider asking God first. I can't make you – but I do suggest that ultimately it might become important.
Here it is: “Joseph married Mary because he impregnated her – he was not worried that she was sleeping with someone else but because she was very young he was worried about what the town would think. He loved her. The age gap was around 15-20 years (maybe 18).” (I advise that I regard the exact size of the age gap as indeterminate.)
Lest anyone feel offended, I'm aware everyone is free to entirely ignore this – and I have no significant expectations.
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