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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,15:20) Hi 94,
So James says that lusts exist within men already before they bring them to life though obedience to them. Do you think this only applies to the saved and others have no lusts?The god of this world gives the lusts of the world to natural men. Indeed Adam and Eve were the first to submit to his rule.
Death[1Jn2.17] and death in the baptism of Jesus [romn6]brings freedom from their control.
Whom the son sets free is free indeed.
Hi Nick:My point is that we were not born with these lusts. What lusts does an infant have?
Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
Go back a bit and note that it requires an action based on a personal decision to start the ball rolling.Infants do not have such abilities.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote There is nothing written about it becoming corrupt is there?
I personally do not know for certain the how though I suspect it has something to do with Adam and Eve eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It may have been that particular sin that corrupted the spirit of man. I do know the spirit of every man is corrupted. Marty seems to believe that Jesus is an exception but I believe that he has two spirits one that is corrupt like ours and one that is from God, that we too receive through faith in that he is the Anointed One of God.
There is if you correctly handle the word of truth. You do realize that each human has an old spirit and yet needs a new spirit? That is plain from scripture though God may not choose to use those exact words in scripture. It is clear because God gives those that believe a new spirit, which means that they had an old spirit that was not doing the job.
Ezekiel 36:24-27(KJV) reads:
Quote For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
God also tells us not to live according to the ways of the “old man” which is equivalent to stating not to live according to the way of the “old spirit” for the “old man” was guided by the “old spirit” that he has replaced by giving us a new spirit. It follows that if we can live according to those ways then we must still have the “old spirit”.
Romans 6:6-7(KJV) reads:
Quote Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
And
Ephesians 4:22(KJV) reads:
Quote That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
What do you think that Peter is speaking about when he states “corruption that is in the world through lust”?
2 Peter 1:4(KJV) reads
Quote Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Hi KW,
You say
” It may have been that particular sin that corrupted the spirit of man. I do know the spirit of every man is corrupted.”
Do you?
Not from the writings of scripture.Perhaps philosophy or human religion?
Marty wrote:
Quote He was not anointed with the Holy Spirit until his baptism at the Jordan river …
Was Jesus “anointed” with the Spirit of God at that time or was the Spirit of God merely giving testimony that Jesus is God’s Son and pleased God by his action? I am asking if perhaps you are reading more into that account than scripture actually states.
I address some of your other points in my previous post to Nick Hassan so in an attempt to save time I am not reposting them but rather asking you to read my post to him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,13:57) Hi KW,
You say
” It may have been that particular sin that corrupted the spirit of man. I do know the spirit of every man is corrupted.”
Do you?
Not from the writings of scripture.Perhaps philosophy or human religion?
Isaiah 53:6(KJV) reads:Quote All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
I am going to stick to what I said.
Quote (942767 @ June 05 2009,09:30) Quote (thethinker @ June 04 2009,19:53) Marty said: Quote The scripture does not state that Christ had no weaknesses. It states that he was tempted every way just as we were and yet without sin. Marty,
You're in denial good friend. The Scripture states that men with weakness were appointed by law. Christ was NOT appointed by law. Therefore, Christ had no weakness. You infer that He had weakness because He was tempted. Your conclusion is not in accord with human experience. We know from experience that a man who has weakness will eventually yield to temptation at some point.So your conclusions are out of accord with Scripture and also contrary to human experience.
thinker
Hi thethinker:And so, what is the point of God allowing Jesus to be tempted?
If what you are saying is true, then he was not capable of committing sin.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
I can't conceive that you would say “if what I am saying is true.” We KNOW from human experience that a man that has weakness will eventually yield to temptation at some point. What do you mean “if”? Hebrews says that Jesus was tempted that He might sympathize with us in our temptations. Why do you ask “what is the point”? Try reading the Scriptures for answers to your question rather than theorizing so much.thinker
Hi tt,
But your reliance on intuitive knowledge is useless as it is personal to you.
All men are weak and the problem is few know it.The success of Jesus Christ, the man, related partly to his awareness of his utter dependance of God and not himself.
Read what he said and what scripture says about him that he was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,20:20) Hi tt,
But your reliance on intuitive knowledge is useless as it is personal to you.
All men are weak and the problem is few know it.The success of Jesus Christ, the man, related partly to his awareness of his utter dependance of God and not himself.
Read what he said and what scripture says about him that he was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
What “intuitive knowledge” are you speaking about Nick? I am talking scientifically. I am speaking about things we all observe every day. If Jesus had weakness and He was like us in every way then at some point in His life He would have failed to rely on God.thinker
Nick,
Do you ever go to bed? No matter how early or late I post you're there. Do you have a life other than this?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 05 2009,20:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,20:20) Hi tt,
But your reliance on intuitive knowledge is useless as it is personal to you.
All men are weak and the problem is few know it.The success of Jesus Christ, the man, related partly to his awareness of his utter dependance of God and not himself.
Read what he said and what scripture says about him that he was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
What “intuitive knowledge” are you speaking about Nick? I am talking scientifically. I am speaking about things we all observe every day. If Jesus had weakness and He was like us in every way then at some point in His life He would have failed to rely on God.thinker
Hi TT,
Since when did one man's observations comprise any form of science??Quote (thethinker @ June 05 2009,20:34) Nick,
Do you ever go to bed? No matter how early or late I post you're there. Do you have a life other than this?thinker
Hi TT,
Yep.
Fulltime work and a vineyard and homestay to run.Then there is barbershop singing and 7 kids and 9 grandchildren to love.
This is where I come to learn what is most precious.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,20:51) Quote (thethinker @ June 05 2009,20:34) Nick,
Do you ever go to bed? No matter how early or late I post you're there. Do you have a life other than this?thinker
Hi TT,
Yep.
Fulltime work and a vineyard and homestay to run.Then there is barbershop singing and 7 kids and 9 grandchildren to love.
This is where I come to learn what is most precious.
Great Nick. Sounds like you have a full life. I just wondered where you get the time.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,20:48) Quote (thethinker @ June 05 2009,20:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,20:20) Hi tt,
But your reliance on intuitive knowledge is useless as it is personal to you.
All men are weak and the problem is few know it.The success of Jesus Christ, the man, related partly to his awareness of his utter dependance of God and not himself.
Read what he said and what scripture says about him that he was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
What “intuitive knowledge” are you speaking about Nick? I am talking scientifically. I am speaking about things we all observe every day. If Jesus had weakness and He was like us in every way then at some point in His life He would have failed to rely on God.thinker
Hi TT,
Since when did one man's observations comprise any form of science??
One man's observations you say?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,14:02) Hi KW,
In Lk4 we see for the first time it written that Jesus was filled with the Spirit.
Just because it was written down that he was filled with the Spirit at that particular time does not mean that he was not filled with the Spirit at other times and it was not written down.We know for instance that Jesus did many things that were not written down as one writer told us that.
Quote (Not3in1 @ May 29 2009,17:29) Marty, I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother. I also just buried my brother this month.
I hope the Lord will give you comfort.Much love,
Mandy
Hi Mandy,Marty and WJ
My deep condolence to both of you on your separation from from your loved ones(brothers). May God console and comfort you from that deep tragedy.Love and peace
AdamQuote (kerwin @ June 06 2009,18:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2009,14:02) Hi KW,
In Lk4 we see for the first time it written that Jesus was filled with the Spirit.
Just because it was written down that he was filled with the Spirit at that particular time does not mean that he was not filled with the Spirit at other times and it was not written down.We know for instance that Jesus did many things that were not written down as one writer told us that.
Hi KW,
Do you think he had been previously filled with the Spirit but nobody mentioned it? He began his power ministry then.Hi brother Kerwin,
When was Jesus filled by the Holy Spirit…. at birth or at Jordan?
This is the question we have to answer to understand Jesus performing miracles.Peace to you
Adam
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