Virgin birth

[meerkat]

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Rom 1:4And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Doesn't verse 4 say that he is declared the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead?

G4690
σπέρμα
sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): – issue, seed.

1 Cor 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Jhn 12:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus is that corn of wheat that died,,,   however his resurrection brings forth much fruit

To me it seems that Jesus was sown in flesh (dishonour)  and raised by the Spirit in glory

[meerkat]

Adam,

Thanks very much, I have been looking for a place/someone to help with bible study and I've found it here.

I found this place while wondering about the trinity and found some very helpful things here – not just on the trinity.

[NickHassan]

Hi mK,
Is it not that the seed of earth [Jesus] was buried in earth that many other earthly beings could be saved. He became as us for our sakes and overcame the curse of sin and death bringing hope beyond the grave.

[meerkat]

Hmmmm,

Do you mean his physical life was when he was “buried in the earth”?

I really think that it is the death of the old man that precedes the resurrection to life. I think Jesus physical life was for fulfilllling prophecy and getting our attention, calling his disciples to carry on after him, they were his witnesses.

It seems that it was by his physical death that he suffered for our sin, then raised by the Spirit – for us it is not a physical death – but the death of our sin nature that is required before resurrection can take place. That is what I believe the second death is about.

In 1 Peter 3:18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:  

Romans  6:4   Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

[meerkat]

Hey Nick,

Apart from Isaiah 7:14 is there any other prophecies for a virgin birth?

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Is 7 says “young woman” not virgin.
But the new fully reveals the old by the plan of God.
If God had not chosen a virgin then arguments would never cease about His statements that he is the Father

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
The God of love sent His beloved son into the decadent, cursed and condemned flesh world to rescue us.

His son cannot be condemned and so those who join with him are rescued, covered by his garment of righteousness.

Flesh does not enter the kingdom so it is the abiding Spirit life that transplants us and joins us with Him in Christ.

We receive that life now and even though we die we live because the Spirit of God cannot die and does not leave us.

Jn5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

[gollamudi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2008,04:09)

Hi MK, Is 7 says “young woman” not virgin. But the new fully reveals the old by the plan of God. If God had not chosen a virgin then arguments would never cease about His statements that he is the Father

Hi brother Nick,
Do you mean God would have had flesh relationship with Virgin Mary so that Jesus could be His literal flesh son ?

[meerkat]

Nick,

Yes, not “virgin”  but young woman was prophecied, God does not need to prove anything to us – we are the clay,   he tells us via his prophets what he is doing and our job is to repent and obey – Even Jesus said “not my will but thine be done”

[NickHassan]

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 11 2008,04:25)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2008,04:09) Hi MK, Is 7 says “young woman” not virgin. But the new fully reveals the old by the plan of God. If God had not chosen a virgin then arguments would never cease about His statements that he is the Father Hi brother Nick, Do you mean God would have had flesh relationship with Virgin Mary so that Jesus could be His literal flesh son ?

Hi GM,
God is not flesh but is spirit.
God's Spirit overshadowed Mary and Jesus was conceived.
The monogenes son of God was sent into the world and partook of our flesh nature.

[meerkat]

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 11 2008,04:25)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2008,04:09) Hi MK, Is 7 says “young woman” not virgin. But the new fully reveals the old by the plan of God. If God had not chosen a virgin then arguments would never cease about His statements that he is the Father Hi brother Nick, Do you mean God would have had flesh relationship with Virgin Mary so that Jesus could be His literal flesh son ?

Adam,

That is what I am coming up against at the moment – if Joseph is not Jesus father – then the Holy Spirit is and then you get into a pagan god/man, a virgin being impregnated by a god and giving birth to a son is pagan.

The only reason at the moment I can see for a ned for the virgin birth is the trinity doctrine which is pagan

It comes back to babylonian beliefs which is the doctrines of the harlot riding the beast.

[meerkat]

Nick where did the sperm carrying the Y chromosome come from – a boy baby needs a Y chromsome that he can NOT get from the mother – to be of the seed of david needs a human father

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Does scripture give detail?
Should we speculate?
God is a creator God

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Scripture defines truth.
It is not defined against pagan belief.

[meerkat]

Scripture says that the Messiah will be of the seed of David – so that needs a Y chromosome – where did it come from? – it did not come from Mary.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Ask God.
It is not written.
But Adam did not need a donation of a Y.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Scripture says he was a man, not a god man.

acts2
22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Scripture defines things not our derived ideas.

[meerkat]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2008,05:39)

Hi MK, Ask God. It is not written. But Adam did not need a donation of a Y.

God said he formed Adam out of the dust of the earth – so God created his genes/chromsomes etc

When he prophecied the physical birth of the Messiah he did not say I will form him by the Holy spirit he said he would used the seed of David

seed being  Hebrew

H2233
זרע
zera‛
zeh'-rah
From H2232; seed; figuratively fruit, plant, sowing time, posterity: –  X carnally, child, fruitful, seed (-time), sowing-time.
Greek

G4690
σπέρμα
sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): – issue, seed.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
No problem creating one set then?
You must prove scripture has been added to if you are to insinuate so.

Otherwise all scripture is made suspect.

[meerkat]

Nick,

You have quoted scripture saying on 2 or 3 witness everything shall be established – we have prophecy in OT,  and NT confirmation about the SEED of David being used.

Psalm 132:11 The LORD has sworn in truth to David; he will not turn from it: “I will set upon your throne the fruit of your body.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

2Sa 7:12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
2Sa 7:13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
2Sa 7:14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
2Sa 7:15But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took [it] from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

Jhn 7:42Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

Rom 1:3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

2Ti 2:8Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

For the Virgin birth we have 1 suspect prophecy of virgin birth in the OT and only the NT saying there is fulfillment in the gospels which also have suspect trinity baptsimal doctrine inserted.

http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/matt2819-willis.htm

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