Urantia Trinity

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September 6, 2013 at 1:38 am#356969

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 06 2013,10:55)

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(2017.9) 188:5.1″ The cross of Jesus portrays the full measure of the supreme devotion of the true shepherd for even the unworthy members of his flock. It forever places all relations between God and man upon the family basis. God is the Father; man is his son. Love, the love of a father for his son, becomes the central truth in the universe relations of Creator and creature — not the justice of a king which seeks satisfaction in the sufferings and punishment of the evil-doing subject.

Jesus was captured and killed according to the NT he was not defending anyone hedid not voluteer to take someones place. God had already from the beginning shown ALL His love for His creation

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(2018.1) 188:5.2 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus’ death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice — mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master’s love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

Jesus was not the only prophet who taught these things. Jesus taught: Repent all the Prophets taught the people to turn to God and Submit and this will bring about the love of one's fellow man

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(2018.2) 188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

Has nothing to do with being Murdered

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(2018.3) 188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy.]/Quote]

HOW? These verses in this book are just making blanket statements without any explanation

[Quote](2018.4) 188:5.5 On millions of inhabited worlds, tens of trillions of evolving creatures who may have been tempted to give up the moral struggle and abandon the good fight of faith, have taken one more look at Jesus on the cross and then have forged on ahead, inspired by the sight of God’s laying down his incarnate life in devotion to the unselfish service of man.

How is laying down hisown incarnate lifeonly to raise it up again any kind of sacrifice or service?

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(2018.5) 188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”

The last few of these paragraphs start out all the same declare some monumental feat achieved followed by a summation that does not address the actual declaration with substance.

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(2018.6) 188:5.7 The cross makes a supreme appeal to the best in man because it discloses one who was willing to lay down his life in the service of his fellow men. Greater love no man can have than this: that he would be willing to lay down his life for his friends — and Jesus had such a love that he was willing to lay down his life for his enemies, a love greater than any which had hitherto been known on earth.

There it is again “the cross makes a supreme appeal” his man was Captured and Killed unwillingly according to the NT he actually charged them with condemning the innocent and while you say he forgave them what did he say about theone who betrayed him:

Matthew 26:24
The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

So much for forgiveness for all, but the UB just wasn't thoroughly thought out but at the time of its writing information wasn't as easy to come by and literacy rates among the religious were still not as high as they are now

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(2019.1) 188:5.8 On other worlds, as well as on Urantia, this sublime spectacle of the death of the human Jesus on the cross of Golgotha has stirred the emotions of mortals, while it has aroused the highest devotion of the angels.

(2019.2) 188:5.9 The cross is that high symbol of sacred service, the devotion of one’s life to the welfare and salvation of one’s fellows. The cross is not the symbol of the sacrifice of the innocent Son of God in the place of guilty sinners and in order to appease the wrath of an offended God, but it does stand forever, on earth and throughout a vast universe, as a sacred symbol of the good bestowing themselves upon the evil and thereby saving them by t
his very devotion of love. The cross does stand as the token of the highest form of unselfish service, the supreme devotion of the full bestowal of a righteous life in the service of wholehearted ministry, even in death, the death of the cross. And the very sight of this great symbol of the bestowal life of Jesus truly inspires all of us to want to go and do likewise.

So totally and utterly without merit. I repeat Jesus was not defending his friends or sinners he was targeted because he was a messenger of God speaking the Word of God:

54 And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

55 Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)

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(2019.3) 188:5.10 When thinking men and women look upon Jesus as he offers up his life on the cross, they will hardly again permit themselves to complain at even the severest hardships of life, much less at petty harassments and their many purely fictitious grievances. His life was so glorious and his death so triumphant that we are all enticed to a willingness to share both. There is true drawing power in the whole bestowal of Michael, from the days of his youth to this overwhelming spectacle of his death on the cross.

(2019.4) 188:5.11 Make sure, then, that when you view the cross as a revelation of God, you do not look with the eyes of the primitive man nor with the viewpoint of the later barbarian, both of whom regarded God as a relentless Sovereign of stern justice and rigid law-enforcement. Rather, make sure that you see in the cross the final manifestation of the love and devotion of Jesus to his life mission of bestowal upon the mortal races of his vast universe. See in the death of the Son of Man the climax of the unfolding of the Father’s divine love for his sons of the mortal spheres. The cross thus portrays the devotion of willing affection and the bestowal of voluntary salvation upon those who are willing to receive such gifts and devotion. There was nothing in the cross which the Father required — only that which Jesus so willingly gave, and which he refused to avoid.

Finally one truth “There was nothing in the cross which the Father required” Indeed there was not and God(Father) spared Jesus

Malachi 3:17
And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

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(2019.5) 188:5.12 If man cannot otherwise appreciate Jesus and understand the meaning of his bestowal on earth, he can at least comprehend the fellowship of his mortal sufferings. No man can ever fear that the Creator does not know the nature or extent of his temporal afflictions.

(2019.6) 188:5.13 We know that the death on the cross was not to effect man’s reconciliation to God but to stimulate man’s realization of the Father’s eternal love and his Son’s unending mercy, and to broadcast these universal truths to a whole universe.”

Once agan how does being murdered help others realize eternal love?

September 6, 2013 at 2:30 am#356973

Spock

Participant

Jesus spent his entire life on the cross of human experience, revealing God to man and the potential of man to God. All that he did was a service to man, even allowing his human body to be killed so he could resurrect and bestow the spirit of truth upon all seekers of truth.

But you just aren't going to listen to any explanation I give you because you are prejudice towards the foundational truths of Jesus Christ.

Colte

September 6, 2013 at 2:42 am#356975

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 06 2013,13:30)

But you just aren't going to listen to any explanation I give you because you are prejudice towards the foundational truths of Jesus Christ.

Colte

If what you were saying was the truth there would b no reason for him to be killed at all the Human experience would include old age, pain, sickness, the loss of loved ones…etc.

Resurrecting is not part of the Human experience and when a loved one goes into death resurrection is not on the table now is it?

I'm not predjudice to anything concerning Jesus and if you are concerned about truth then simply listen with a reasonable mind set.

Do you realize many people are tortured and killed with no willingness and yet they have commited no offense at all and yet you are saying a divine being chosed to undergo torture and murder in order to say I can suffer and simply ressurect when I am finish pretending to be ordinary and pretending a lack of control or choices?

THINK REASONABLY:

Did Jesus plan to be murdered as Michael?

September 6, 2013 at 3:40 am#356979

Spock

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 06 2013,13:42)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 06 2013,13:30)

But you just aren't going to listen to any explanation I give you because you are prejudice towards the foundational truths of Jesus Christ.

Colte

If what you were saying was the truth there would b no reason for him to be killed at all the Human experience would include old age, pain, sickness, the loss of loved ones…etc.

Resurrecting is not part of the Human experience and when a loved one goes into death resurrection is not on the table now is it?

I'm not predjudice to anything concerning Jesus and if you are concerned about truth then simply listen with a reasonable mind set.

THINK REASONABLY:

Did Jesus plan to be murdered as Michael?

Jesus had said he would resurrect himself to prove his authority, he said that to the unbelieving Jews. He did just as he said, he has now returned to his rightful place in heaven.

Maybe you should abandon human reasoning and trust Jesus?

Jesus knew he would be rejected by this backward world, he also knew that the world would hate his followers and seek to discredit them.

The result of his death and resurrection have attracted millions to his way of life.

Colter

September 6, 2013 at 10:48 am#356989

Spock

Participant

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

Colter

September 6, 2013 at 4:49 pm#356996

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 06 2013,14:40)

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Jesus had said he would resurrect himself to prove his authority, he said that to the unbelieving Jews. He did just as he said, he has now returned to his rightful place in heaven.

So you are saying he offered peopleto torture and murder him just to prove to them he had authority although after rising from the dead he appeared to none of the people who questioned his authority, is that correct?

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Maybe you should abandon human reasoning and trust Jesus?

I trust Jesus and he is reported as saying it was NOT his will to be Killed or Crucified. He said right there in the garden “Not My WILL”

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Jesus knew he would be rejected by this backward world, he also knew that the world would hate his followers and seek to discredit them.

Makes no sense, Jesus came to the house of Israel an in no way behaved if they were backwards in fact he was reminding them of what they should be teaching, what was sent down to them

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The result of his death and resurrection have attracted millions to his way of life.

More to worshipping him and not living the way he did but that was more the doing of Paul. The preaching of Jesus did pull the massive amount of Pagans to some sort of unity of belief so it served a purpose.

September 6, 2013 at 5:25 pm#357000

Spock

Participant

Thats correct, Jesus didn't appear to the people who did not believe in him.

Jesus asked in prayer if the cup could be avoided (the final rejection by his people and their ultimate destruction and shame). He remained true to the Universal Fathers will

Jesus said this about the religious authorities:

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Also:

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.” (John 15:18-19)

Colter

September 6, 2013 at 10:10 pm#357008

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 07 2013,04:25)

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Thats correct, Jesus didn't appear to the people who did not believe in him.

Then that was not the point of the statement because he clearly said THE ONLY SIGN he was going to give was the sign of JONAH

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Jesus asked in prayer if the cup could be avoided (the final rejection by his people and their ultimate destruction and shame). He remained true to the Universal Fathers will

How is that? Where does it say that it was the will of God for Jesus to be crucified? You assume that because you assume it occurred but the fact is as the Quran said it was not the will of God for Jesus to be crucified and so God saved him as Jesus had asked as it is written:

John 11:41-42

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

Yes, God heard Jesus asked to be saved and saved him

Psalm 57:1
Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast.

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Jesus said this about the religious authorities:

This verse goes against your incarnation theory because he is clearly saying he is a Man who has told what was “heard” from God.

September 7, 2013 at 2:05 am#357028

Spock

Participant

Good gosh!, I just assumed that you knew the Bible :

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Luke 9:22

Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Theb Quran was written by a non believer who apparently was illiterate in the NT.

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This verse goes against your incarnation theory because he is clearly saying he is a Man who has told what was “heard” from God

Once again you are behind dishonest in that you ignore the 80 times Jesus referred to himself as “the Son of man” as well as saying he was equal to the Father, pre-existent, resurrected a likeness of his former human form and returned to rule at the right hand of God.

But that's what Muslims do, they cherry pick the scripture to find justification for their un-belief. They go around telling flimsy stories because they do not believe the true story of Jesus.

Colter

September 7, 2013 at 11:28 am#357039

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 07 2013,13:05)

Good gosh!, I just assumed that you knew the Bible :

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Luke 9:22

Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Theb Quran was written by a non believer who apparently was illiterate in the NT.

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This verse goes against your incarnation theory because he is clearly saying he is a Man who has told what was “heard” from God

But that's what Muslims do, they cherry pick the scripture to find justification for their un-belief. They go around telling flimsy stories because they do not believe the true story of Jesus.

Colter

Trinity is an abomination with God,
pagans teach the *trinity*; what has the temple of God has to do with the temple of demons?
The Creator is ONE,there is none beside Him.

He alone is God,all things are framed by His word.
His word is in Him,all the holy angels are in Him
and all the saints are in Him.The universe is in order because of Him.The seasons on earth is in His hands.
The clouds are the dust of His feet.

Gods Spirit is the bond, that binds us together.
Anything *not* bound by the Spirit is not His,and will be
done away with/destroyed.
Anyone not in The Spirit,*is in satans hands*.
The word of God/Jesus is the Spirit that binds us to the Father.

*Without Him* there is nothing that can bind us
to the Father,no *doctrines*,no *philosophys*,no *prophets*,no messiahs.Jesus alone is the glue/Spirit that binds us to His father.It is time to focus our discussions on Him,or we will only waste our time.

wakeup.

September 7, 2013 at 11:44 am#357041

Spock

Participant

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The creator is One, there is none beside him

The Son of God is “beside him” as Lord and God of this world. All power and authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him.

You claim the bible to be the word of God but you don't even believe it.

Colter

September 7, 2013 at 12:43 pm#357042

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 07 2013,22:44)

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The creator is One, there is none beside him

The Son of God is “beside him” as Lord and God of this world. All power and authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him.

You claim the bible to be the word of God but you don't even believe it.

Colter

Colter.

you did not read it properly.

The Word of God is inside God.
And the bible is the Word of God *in print*.
The Spirit is in the words; and is the flesh of Christ; the Bread that came down from heaven.
You need to eat that Bread,to have Christ in you.

Christ is not on earth,but his Spirit is in the bible
that we should absorb.
You can not seperate Christ from the Bible,his Spirit is in it. Other books have not that Spirit. Its just strange flesh.

wakeup.

September 7, 2013 at 2:56 pm#357055

Spock

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,23:43)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 07 2013,22:44)

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The creator is One, there is none beside him

The Son of God is “beside him” as Lord and God of this world. All power and authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him.

You claim the bible to be the word of God but you don't even believe it.

Colter

Colter.

you did not read it properly.

Christ is not on earth,but his Spirit is in the bible
that we should absorb.
You can not seperate Christ from the Bible,his Spirit is in it. Other books have not that Spirit. Its just strange flesh.

wakeup.

You were wrong and have no answer for it, so now your on to some other false teaching.

The Bible makes no such claim, it does not claim to be inerrant nor does it claim to be God or contain Gods spirit.

God is not a theory, he is real, his spirit is present. The Spirit of truth was poured out upon all flesh, not the current Catholics book collection.

You bought into the churches controlling BS. That’s your problem not mine.

Colter

September 7, 2013 at 4:13 pm#357061

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 08 2013,01:56)

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 07 2013,23:43)

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 07 2013,22:44)

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The creator is One, there is none beside him

The Son of God is “beside him” as Lord and God of this world. All power and authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him.

You claim the bible to be the word of God but you don't even believe it.

Colter

Colter.

you did not read it properly.

Christ is not on earth,but his Spirit is in the bible
that we should absorb.
You can not seperate Christ from the Bible,his Spirit is in it. Other books have not that Spirit. Its just strange flesh.

wakeup.

You were wrong and have no answer for it, so now your on to some other false teaching.

The Bible makes no such claim, it does not claim to be inerrant nor does it claim to be God or contain Gods spirit.

God is not a theory, he is real, his spirit is present. The Spirit of truth was poured out upon all flesh, not the current Catholics book collection.

You bought into the churches controlling BS. That’s your problem not mine.

Colter

Colter.

Are you going to tear this page off the book of John?
Have you become like Boditharta, and some others?

John 6:48 **I am that bread of life**.

John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

John 6:50 **This is the bread** which cometh down from heaven, that a *man may eat thereof*, and not die.

John 6:51 *I am the living bread* which came down from heaven: *if any man eat of this bread*, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is *my flesh*, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? (ARE YOU ALSO ONE OF THOSE JEWS)?

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, **Except ye eat the flesh** of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

John 6:54 **Whoso eateth my flesh**, and *drinketh my blood*, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:55 **For my flesh is meat indeed**, and my *blood is drink indeed*.

John 6:56 He that *eateth my flesh*, and *drinketh my blood*, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that *eateth me*, even he shall live by me.

John 6:58 *This is that bread* which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that *eateth of this bread* shall live for ever.

John 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

wakeup.

September 7, 2013 at 6:15 pm#357068

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 07 2013,13:05)

Good gosh!, I just assumed that you knew the Bible :

Quote

Luke 9:22

Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Theb Quran was written by a non believer who apparently was illiterate in the NT.

Quote

This verse goes against your incarnation theory because he is clearly saying he is a Man who has told what was “heard” from God

But that's what Muslims do, they cherry pick the scripture to find justification for their un-belief. They go around telling flimsy stories because they do not believe the true story of Jesus.

Colter

Im very well versed in the NT and as I asked. where does it say anywhere in the Bible tha it was th will of God to be crucified?

Luke 9:22 is a prediction of what was expected to happen Jesus prayed to God for it not to happen anso it didn't

Jesus did not say hewas equal to “the Father” in fact he said directly John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Once agan you make statements about Muslims that are in no way supported by the Urantia Book. Where do you find anythin in the UB about Muslims having no belief or inventing stories? The UB says that theWorship of God in Islam is CLEAR CUT and PURE MONOTHEISM

September 8, 2013 at 1:40 am#357104

Spock

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Sep. 08 2013,03:13)