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Nick
Your fleshly nature is not of the Spirit and it is to perish – the second death is the perishing of the carnal nature.
Of the same lump – there is a vessel of honour and a vessel of dishonour.
Romans 9:20 -21
Is talking about a man … and that of the same lump (that man) there is a vessel of honor and dishonor – the vessel of flesh to receive death – the wages of sin and adversity, and the vessel of spirit to receive mercy after the carnal nature has been destroyed ………. yes everyone needs to die to themselves (their nature)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2009,09:35) Hi MK,
Yes once God has judged mankind through Jesus and cast the unrepentant wicked rebels into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels then God will be in all. The meek will have inherited the earth.
the unrepentant wicked rebels will be chastened and will suffer the second death which is the death of the carnal nature – your carnal nature is what is destroyed in the “fire” ……… your carnal nature is the messenger of “Satan” which is emnity against God and the SpiritHi MK,
Is it?
Mt 10
28`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.Rom9
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Man is a vessel.
2Tim2
20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Not several vessels.
The spirit of man returns to GodEcc12
7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.Only those reborn of the Spirit of life who walk in the Spirit will inherit that eternal Life.
Rom8
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Quote (meerkat @ Jan. 12 2009,07:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2009,09:35) Hi MK,
Yes once God has judged mankind through Jesus and cast the unrepentant wicked rebels into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels then God will be in all. The meek will have inherited the earth.
the unrepentant wicked rebels will be chastened and will suffer the second death which is the death of the carnal nature – your carnal nature is what is destroyed in the “fire” ……… your carnal nature is the messenger of “Satan” which is emnity against God and the Spirit
Hi MK,
So there is no judgement or second death just a gentle chiding of the murderers and liars?Rev21
27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.Hi MK,
Was Paul GIVEN a carnal nature to discipline him??2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2009,10:16) Hi MK,
Was Paul GIVEN a carnal nature to discipline him??2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
We are all given a carnal nature to discipline us ……….Hi MK,
So what of the Soul which the fire can also destroy?[mt10]So carnal nature relates to the body.
Should we not love our bodies then?
Ephesians 5:29
for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,Hi MK,
All remnant flesh shall worship.
But all flesh will not be saved.
Is 65
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2009,09:59) Quote (meerkat @ Jan. 12 2009,07:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2009,09:35) Hi MK,
Yes once God has judged mankind through Jesus and cast the unrepentant wicked rebels into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels then God will be in all. The meek will have inherited the earth.
the unrepentant wicked rebels will be chastened and will suffer the second death which is the death of the carnal nature – your carnal nature is what is destroyed in the “fire” ……… your carnal nature is the messenger of “Satan” which is emnity against God and the Spirit
Hi MK,
So there is no judgement or second death just a gentle chiding of the murderers and liars?Rev21
27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Nick,where did I say there is no judgement or second death? I specifically said there was …….. There is a reaping what has been sown ……… gentle chiding for those that deserve few stripes ….. many stripes for those who knew what to do and rebelled. For those who do not know what to do and deserve stripes, they will get few ………….
Luke 12:46
Not all are given the same duties, responsibilities or adversity ……….. to whom much is given, more is required
Hi MK,
You should not confuse the disciplining of the SERVANTS with how God deals with rebel heathen idolaters. All men are not servants of Jesus or His God.Lk 12
47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
1 Peter 4:18
AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?Hi MK,
In response to the question of his servant Peter
Lk 12
42And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?43Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
The portion with the unbelievers is not a fate any servant of Jesus would want.
Those who are not with him are against him.1 Cor 15:42
sown in corruption – raised incorruptible
Our physical body in itself is not the problem, it is the nature – lusts, desires of envy, pride, jealousy, rage, etc that are the problem.
first natural, then spiritual – we are made natural first, just as Jesus overcame we are to overcome too.
Hi MK,
Yes those who receive the incorruptible seed will rise to meet Jesus in the air.
Thos who overcome will meet with the overcomer.
But not all are reborn from above.Some yet of earth will be raised unto judgement 1000 years later.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2009,10:50) Hi MK,
You should not confuse the disciplining of the SERVANTS with how God deals with rebel heathen idolaters. All men are not servants of Jesus or His God.Lk 12
47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
1 Peter 4:18
AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?
It seems that we have brethren “in the world” who are afflicted as we are …………1 Peter 5:9 (King James Version)
9Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
Hi MK,
Indeed Jesus has some he calls brethren.
But all men are not his brothers.John 12:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.Jesus died.
We too must die now.Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Those who do have already passed from death to life
Jn5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.Most will not allow such a simple but humble death.
They may see a second deathWe are not above or removed from our brethren – we are all sinners saved by the grace of God ………….. each in their own order ….. I leave my salvation in Gods hands and I leave the salvation of all in Gods hands ….. and he says he loved the world …… and is the saviour of all and that the corruptible will be destroyed.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2009,11:38) Hi MK,
Indeed Jesus has some he calls brethren.
But all men are not his brothers.John 12:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.Jesus died.
We too must die now.Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Those who do have already passed from death to life
Jn5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.Most will not allow such a simple but humble death.
They may see a second death
NickJust as we all see death ………. we all see life For this reason was the gospel preached to the dead judged as men in the flesh and live according to the will of God.
1 peter 4:6Hi MK,
Some will never die.
Some with Jesus had already passed from death to life.1Peter4
5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Those preached to are shown in 1 Peter3
1 Peter 3:17-22 (King James Version)
17For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
verse 18 says Jesus died – the just – for the unjust (us) all sinners
verse 19 says that the death was preaching the gospel to the spirits in prison (us)
verse 20 – 21 says that at one time were a disobedient example in the times of Noah – ie it is a figure of what Jesus was doing we are baptised into his death – and raised by his resurrection –
Jesus did not go and preach to the spirits that survived Noahs flood – Noahs flood was the type of Jesus death and resurrection.
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