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Hi mk,
Jn5,
Here is the first resurrection.
Jn5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Those that have the living Spirit are not dead but asleep and will hear the call to come out of their graves.
These are the reborn sons of the resurrection.What is resurrection? – is it raising to life from the dead. What is that life (spirit)
How can the fruits of the spirit be love, joy, peace etc when resurrection will involve a spirit enduring torment eternally?
Hi mk,
No man in which the Spirit of life abides will be cast into the lake of fire.
Their names are written in the book of life.Man is not born with that Spirit but must be reborn from above before his human spirit returns to God.
Nick
I don't know why I do this, I have danced with you before; you just don't know how to follow music.
I believe the only one you make sense to with your illogic, is you.
No, I have not forgotten the “damnation bit”, you just didn't see it, Acts 3:23, those who do not hear, and do not repent, are condemned. Read it again.
I was not speaking of the first resurrection, they are no longer judged as it says in, Rev. 20:6.
What your forgetting, or not understand is, only the saints that come up in the first resurrection will have a change of nature, they will be resurrected with a spirit body, while all that come up in the second resurrection will be just what we are now, flesh and blood.
I think, most of you you should look into your Bible and see were it says, we have a soul.
You will be surprised to find out that we are a soul, big difference.
No one will burn in hell or the lake of fire for ever. Hell is nothing more than your grave, that's were they put you when you die, in your hell, grave. The lake of fire symbolizes total and everlasting destruction, from which there is no resurrection; fire destroys, it does not preserve; go take a look around in California.Georg
Meerkat
Where in the Bible does it say, that it was God's intention to change all humans into spirit beings/
To receive a spirit body is the reward for obeying the gospel even unto death.Ps. 50:5 “Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.”
Ps. 116:15 “Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.”Jesus was the first to make a covenant in his blood. And he made a promise to those that would follow him.
Rev. 2:26 “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.”
Rev. 3:21 “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am sat down with my Father in his throne.”These are all the saints that will come up in the first resurrection, they will be kings and priests.
Rev. 5:10 “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”
This also tells us were Christ and the saints will reign, on earth, not in heaven.
Rebellion was not in God's plan, but he knew it would happen. The reason we read that Jesus was slain from the foundation of the earth is; God laid out his plan for creation to his firstborn,Jesus, and he explained to him that all of us would need a savior; had Jesus refused, God's creation would never have taken place. Only after Jesus excepted the challenge, did God go ahead with his creation.Well I think I stop for now.
Georg
Hi georg,
Jesus was not slain from the foundation of the earth.
KJV messes up that verse by making it's true meaning unclear-I suggest comparing other versions.Nick
Who says anything about a second chance? For how many will it be the first time they hear the name Jesus?
Why are there so many denomination? Why can't even ministers agree on the same doctrine?
Do you claim to have all the truth, or all the answers. Not everything is “TOPICAL”.
Any one can quote three pages of scripture, what does that do for anyone? We can look into our Bible if we want to do that. But how about given us your expert explanation to it, what they mean to you.
But you wouldn't do that, because you don't like to get pinned down.Georg
Nick
From before the foundation of the earth means, before creation.
It simply means that he knew before anything was created, that he would have to die for us.Georg
Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 12 2008,07:02) The lake of fire symbolizes total and everlasting destruction, from which there is no resurrection; fire destroys, it does not preserve; go take a look around in California. Georg
GeorgI do agree with a lot of what you say – there are a few things that I would like to explore though if you want to.
When Jesus says I am the resurrection and the life – no man comes to the Father but by me he was saying that resurrection is life. Also he says my words are spirit and life, also what is flesh is flesh and does not inherit the kingdom of God,
When he was resurrected by the Spirit that was when he left HIS body of death behind and gave everyone the gift of life (spirit). From what I can see resurrection is not flesh and blood being recreated to be to be destroyed AGAIN – there is only ONE type of resurrection but there are different ways/times of achieving it.
Just like physical birth is a process conception/incubation/birth – then growth,, I believe the spiritual is as well.
When you say that everyone will be incarnated in flesh again – to physcially hear the gospel without deception then choose that seems to go against all the “types” in the OT to do with purification/harvesting. Also scripture that talks about purifying the
third through fire.When you say fire destroys it does destroy the trees, but from the destruction comes new growth from the seeds that have lain dormant
Mar 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Jhn 12:25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 12 2008,07:51) Nick Who says anything about a second chance? For how many will it be the first time they hear the name Jesus?
Why are there so many denomination? Why can't even ministers agree on the same doctrine?
Do you claim to have all the truth, or all the answers. Not everything is “TOPICAL”.
Any one can quote three pages of scripture, what does that do for anyone? We can look into our Bible if we want to do that. But how about given us your expert explanation to it, what they mean to you.
But you wouldn't do that, because you don't like to get pinned down.Georg
Hi georg,
It is not written but imagined.
After death the judgementHi mk,
Here is our opportunity to die now and be reborn
Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 12 2008,07:38) Meerkat Where in the Bible does it say, that it was God's intention to change all humans into spirit beings/
To receive a spirit body is the reward for obeying the gospel even unto death.Ps. 50:5 “Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.”
Ps. 116:15 “Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.”Jesus was the first to make a covenant in his blood. And he made a promise to those that would follow him.
Rev. 2:26 “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.”
Rev. 3:21 “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am sat down with my Father in his throne.”These are all the saints that will come up in the first resurrection, they will be kings and priests.
Rev. 5:10 “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.”
This also tells us were Christ and the saints will reign, on earth, not in heaven.
Rebellion was not in God's plan, but he knew it would happen. The reason we read that Jesus was slain from the foundation of the earth is; God laid out his plan for creation to his firstborn,Jesus, and he explained to him that all of us would need a savior; had Jesus refused, God's creation would never have taken place. Only after Jesus excepted the challenge, did God go ahead with his creation.Well I think I stop for now.
Georg
Georg,I guess this has been hashed out here many times but here goes
1Cr 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Cr 15:24Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Cr 15:27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cr 15:28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.The end is part of the order of all being made alive IN CHRIST – spiritual : even as all die in adam – which is the natural
The same word is used for all being subject to Christ as Christ being subject to God
G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: – be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.The reason that there is no more death is because all have been made alive IN CHRIST because they have all heard the gospel and they have all reaped what they have sown. If you sow to the flesh (body/soul nature) you will reap destruction death, If you sow to the spirit you reap life. Jesus came to save the lost/destroyed.
What scripture says Jesus could have refused?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 12 2008,08:01) Hi mk,
Here is our opportunity to die now and be reborn
Rom6
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Yes Nick – that is what the second death is bout – it is the death of the body of sin, that fleshly natural body that can not inherit the kingdom of God.The gift of God is life. It is not a reward for our belief
Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 12 2008,07:38) To receive a spirit body is the reward for obeying the gospel even unto death.
The gift of God is life – it is not a rewardHi MK,
Eternal life for those in Christ.
ZOE
Said to those who had natural life
John 10:10
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life[zoe 2222], and have it abundantly.”Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 12 2008,07:58) Hi mk,
Everyone was given new life?
Only those who belong to him starting at pentecost.
Nickeveryone will be given new life but each in there own order
1st – Christ
2nd – those at his coming (first resurrection) passed from death to life
3rd end – when he must reign (with his resurrected saints) until all are subject
G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: – be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.The end is where the second death occurs.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 12 2008,08:26) Hi MK,
Eternal life for those in Christ.
ZOE
Said to those who had natural life
John 10:10
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life[zoe 2222], and have it abundantly.”Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
In contextRom 5:17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.Th same many that are sinners are the same many that WILL be made righteous
Our belief does not give us life – it saves us from wrath – LIFE is a free gift from God
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